Fatso Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 (edited) I'm talking from a company/employee standpoint. A company that has healthy employees pays less for insurance. Getting a physical yearly and managing a disease is a lot cheaper than waiting until you have heart attack, get cancer, or diabetes etc... You're touching on a society/welfare issue. Well guess what, health care is becoming a "society/welfare issue".Like I said, a goal of the ACA act all along was to tax workers who get employee provided health care as part of their wages and benefits package.From what I have been reading in the papers this new Cadillac Tax will take effect in the year 2018 and the UAW is trying to minimize its impact upon its members.What confuses me is that on the My Ford Website the company is currently paying for my health care under the amount that would trigger the Cadillac Tax but keep in mind that all taxes are a fluid situation and as more people sign up for the ACA,use health care but do not pay for it, the insurance companies will raise rates on those who do pay.So putting Fatso on a treadmill to get his waist under 40 inches {besides being inhumane} or punishing him in other ways WILL NOT lower the price of health care significantly while at the same time millions of people who are beyond the reach of discipline are using the system as well..Bottom line is, if you earn a paycheck the government will find you. Edited August 24, 2015 by Fatso 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caustic Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 Your right hospitals initially get stuck with it and pass it off to the insurance companies, BUT that's one of the many reasons health care costs are so high. And if you don't like being told what physicians to go see than change the type of insurance plan you have don't blame that on the insurance company. You made that choice[/quote I didn't choose.....All Tier 2 has the same insurance. False, tier 2 has a choice between HAP and BCBS, they are not mirrors of each other either. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpercable Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 How do you think that they are going to get you to pay union dues in the right to work states? I will tell you they will take over your health care and pension Ford, GM, and Chrysler will pay the UAW for your premiums for both health care insurance and your pension. If you do not pay dues you won't be able to get health care through them and they will administrate the pension also this will relieve the automakers of the "legacy" commitment. They will negotiate for the second tier to get the same pay but they will have to pay the UAW for their health insurance deducted from their check. Now where the problem is if the UAW will have different plans with different deductibles and yes yearly payout limits to keep the monthly premium payments low. As I said if you are not a dues paying member you will have to purchase your own insurance from Obama Care exchange at a higher price then what you can get from the UAW. The problem will be that the UAW will subsidize the premiums to make sure that you will pay less than you can get in the Obama Care exchange. Now their selling point will be guess what you can get your health insurance through your spouse and pocket all the extra money and you will end up with a big raise in your take home pay. Eventually the UAW will mismanage the amount they are receiving from the automakers and down the road after the money starts dwindling the subsidizes will start to get less and less then everyone will be in the exchange. This will not fix the right to work problem for them but it will delay the drain on the union war chest and give them time to try to come up with another income stream to stay alive with the right to work laws. This is a shell game scheme as long as they are showing money coming in through dues and move it around it will look good but it is not sustainable. They are your sole Bargaining agent. They can do this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
focusfrank Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 How do you think that they are going to get you to pay union dues in the right to work states? I will tell you they will take over your health care and pension Ford, GM, and Chrysler will pay the UAW for your premiums for both health care insurance and your pension. If you do not pay dues you won't be able to get health care through them and they will administrate the pension also this will relieve the automakers of the "legacy" commitment. They will negotiate for the second tier to get the same pay but they will have to pay the UAW for their health insurance deducted from their check. Now where the problem is if the UAW will have different plans with different deductibles and yes yearly payout limits to keep the monthly premium payments low. As I said if you are not a dues paying member you will have to purchase your own insurance from Obama Care exchange at a higher price then what you can get from the UAW. The problem will be that the UAW will subsidize the premiums to make sure that you will pay less than you can get in the Obama Care exchange. Now their selling point will be guess what you can get your health insurance through your spouse and pocket all the extra money and you will end up with a big raise in your take home pay. Eventually the UAW will mismanage the amount they are receiving from the automakers and down the road after the money starts dwindling the subsidizes will start to get less and less then everyone will be in the exchange. This will not fix the right to work problem for them but it will delay the drain on the union war chest and give them time to try to come up with another income stream to stay alive with the right to work laws. This is a shell game scheme as long as they are showing money coming in through dues and move it around it will look good but it is not sustainable. They are your sole Bargaining agent. They can do this. If you opt out of paying union dues you are still entitled to everything a dues paying member is entitled too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatso Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 If you opt out of paying union dues you are still entitled to everything a dues paying member is entitled too. Maybe not "everything",Frank.I heard that at the former truck plant in Virginia if you were not a UAW member you were not eligible for all the buyouts,for what its worth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 Maybe not "everything",Frank.I heard that at the former truck plant in Virginia if you were not a UAW member you were not eligible for all the buyouts,for what its worth. I don't doubt that's the way it is in Virginia, but the UAW and the media have both confirmed what frank said Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpercable Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 It will be a benefit of being a member of the union just like the building trades they supply insurance to their members. Think about it Automakers pay more by the hour to employee and shift all legacy costs to the union. IBEW, Carpenters union think about it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlecountry Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 UAW needs to stay out of the insurance business! I don't want the UAW managing my healthcare! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tier2 Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 Would legacy members agree to insurance like Tier 2, 1200 deductible plus a $600 HSA, for a raise? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axle72 Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 Hell no!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axle72 Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 We're not giving up anything this contract we need to gain some of if not all of what we previously gave up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tier2 Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 The company isn't going to pay the Cadillac tax and give raises. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatso Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 $15,508 that is how much the MyFordBenefits website said the company paid for my combined medical and dental insurance and I have a family so why would a tax that kicks in over $20,000 apply to me?We are gonna get so boned this contract! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 $15,508 that is how much the MyFordBenefits website said the company paid for my combined medical and dental insurance and I have a family so why would a tax that kicks in over $20,000 apply to me?We are gonna get so boned this contract! Do you have traditional or HMO? I have HAP and my combined medical is way below the Cadillac tax too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decker Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 (edited) Per CNBC - "Obamacare hitting union benefits harder than Scott Walker did Remember the near-riots that broke out in Wisconsin when Gov. Scott Walker (R.) made modest reforms to state employees’ health benefits? Walker has got nothing on Obamacare. In dollar terms, Obamacare’s Cadillac tax is a far bigger whack to public union benefits than anything Walker did. That’s why state and local governments all over the country are rapidly discovering the value of dumping workers’ health coverage onto Obamacare’s exchanges. Detroit is hoping to use its bankruptcy proceedings to offload retiree health benefits onto the exchanges, saving $27 to $40 million a year in the process. Unions had almost nothing to gain from Obamacare, given that their members usually enjoy gold-plated health coverage already. Nonetheless, unions were good team players, fighting hard for the law’s passage, and for the Democratic electoral victories that made it possible. It’ll be interesting to see how much the rank-and-file union members hold their leaders accountable for what they’re experiencing." Why with every other public union is there the tought of the ACA being over turned or at least modified by the results of the next election, is the IUAW already jumping in bed with the big 3? What happens if either party win`s and the new president dosen`t go along wih this ACA or wants to tweak the dam thing? Will IUAW ask to open the contract in 2018? Once again who is the IUAW working for? Is the control of a giant health care plan and the bragging rights of such a plan a control faddish? Is VEBA anything to get a stiffy about? We see this time an time again the IUAW pushs for and gets the labor friendly....? canidates in office and what happens? Add ACA to the list of the labor friendly gifts. Labor friendly politicain`s? Decker 1 of the 1788 Edited August 25, 2015 by Decker 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 (edited) Once again who is the IUAW working for? Themselves. Labor friendly politicain`s? No such thing. Edited August 25, 2015 by Pioneer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr hinkyDink Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 BTW I went over{26k} but only cause I use all the benefits I have.... Just because I have them... Remember I am the one... Bow down and worship me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caustic Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 (edited) Would legacy members agree to insurance like Tier 2, 1200 deductible plus a $600 HSA, for a raise?Axle said no to this. The BCBS plan offered to us Tier 2 workers is not the insurance legacy workers get but it is actually a good insurance plan. Took my 3 year old to the ER visit cost me only 22 bucks. My other son needed an ultrasound and a visit to s neurologist, 18 bucks out of pocket. ER visit for me, 17 bucks. It isn't bad insurance. Cost for me and my two sons on myfordbenefits is 10,200 per year. Might want to look into the plan before you shoot it down. Also we are given a health card with $300 for singles or $600 for a family, while I listed those out of pocket costs above, I really didn't pay for them out of pocket because of that card. Edited August 25, 2015 by caustic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 We're not giving up anything this contract we need to gain some of if not all of what we previously gave up There's plenty out there who share your sentiment, but there's also way more sheep out there who will probably vote yes no matter what. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caustic Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 There's plenty out there who share your sentiment, but there's also way more sheep out there who will probably vote yes no matter what. I hear a lot of tier 1 guys with 15-30 years in talking and the only thing I hear them worrying about is what kind of signing bonus there is going to be. That scares me a bit, if those guys are only worried about a bribe..er bonus to sign a contract that sucks. This will be my first contract vote and I was kind of hoping for a fight, seems like too many have given up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madime39 Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 I hear a lot of tier 1 guys with 15-30 years in talking and the only thing I hear them worrying about is what kind of signing bonus there is going to be. That scares me a bit, if those guys are only worried about a bribe..er bonus to sign a contract that sucks. This will be my first contract vote and I was kind of hoping for a fight, seems like too many have given up. History has shown that people see that "big number" and nothing else. I honestly wish they would do away with the signing bonus and just bring us a fair contract. Everyone needs to seriously read every single thing listed on the highlights paper that the UAW hands out, and also keep in mind that there are MANY things that are negotiated that don't make it into the highlights - we only find out about them after the contract is ratified. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caustic Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 History has shown that people see that "big number" and nothing else. I honestly wish they would do away with the signing bonus and just bring us a fair contract. Everyone needs to seriously read every single thing listed on the highlights paper that the UAW hands out, and also keep in mind that there are MANY things that are negotiated that don't make it into the highlights - we only find out about them after the contract is ratified. I heard about the "highlights" nonsense. This to me is bullshit, why are we not shown a copy of the contract? I understand it would be way too much cost and time to print but email wouldn't be difficult. Just about everyone has a damn smart phone these days. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 I heard about the "highlights" nonsense. This to me is bullshit, why are we not shown a copy of the contract? I understand it would be way too much cost and time to print but email wouldn't be difficult. Just about everyone has a damn smart phone these days.Agree. A simple PDF would be nice. On the other hand there's only about 12 people that would bother to read it and the rest want the tl;dr version 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decker Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 (edited) I don't doubt that's the way it is in Virginia, but the UAW and the media have both confirmed what frank said Beck Rights If an employee pays an agency fee to a labor organization, then the employee is considered a member of the labor organization and will receive all rights and benefits guaranteed under the collective bargaining agreement. This includes representation in any or all grievance procedures. Yes the state of Michigan and Ford Motor Co. will recognize the beck rights under the federal law. The IUAW will take every dollar they can get whether a dues paying member or an agency paying member Everything----signing bonus, vacation/PB time, buy outs, rates of pay and bidding on operations. The only thing an agency member won't get to do is vote in any local elections or go to local picnic's. Oh yeah agency members "no golf at Black Lake" for you!!! Decker Edited August 26, 2015 by Decker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axle72 Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 At Sterling beck rights guys also didnt get the turkey that was handed out by the union but paid for by ford even tho the memo said everyone gets 1 mps/supers/foremans/area managers everyone got 1 except the beck objectors it was r locals way of saying pay all ur dues or else Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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