So how bout them 2nd quarter profits.

[Fatso]

YES THEY DID announce it just before negotiations and its not a ploy its hard business.Dark if you work at Ford you are a weak union member!Vote Yes already if you want to!

[dark270]

YES THEY DID announce it just before negotiations and its not a ploy its hard business.Dark if you work at Ford you are a weak union member!Vote Yes already if you want to!

you are a moron. they have been neg. for while nowsince before the actual public announcement, if u believe they only start july, you are shallow.

and for you to make a judgement about me without knowing me (only what u read on here) you are REALLY shallow, drop the strike bullshit, cause thats what it is. bullshit

dont think ive ever voted yes on a contract going back to early 90's bottom line im done with you, you are a moron

Edited July 31, 2015 by dark271

[dark270]

If you look closely the European Works Counsels are completely different from what is referred to as labor unions here in the states. The only thing the work counsel`s remotely do similar to our unions is join members under one united organization.

 

Members of the work counsels have more voice and more direct involvement in most if not all decisions. Representatives sit on the boards of the companies and have voice and vote on all labor matters.

 

These few points alone puts the works counsel`s very far ahead of our organizations. The biggest hold out on our organizations part is the control over its members. Our leadership will not hear of or will not give up the control they have over the membership.

 

But, a very good point dark.

 

Decker

i know this.... UAW has declined, what is IGmetal membership? (ahem)its increasing. maybe since this is a new day and we are under different pressure the UAW should change their mentality ? hmm 1960's wont work today. i do love what the union stands for, i just dont like our current leadership and how they strong arm their own agenda.... IGmetal is doing it right, IBEW is doing it right, we have a public perception problem among other issues, and we should deal with them....im ok with not getting a raise...but give me stock options, give me a voucher for a new car, etc...think outside the box.....etc.... wish we had a union that was concern with not only numbers but doing the best job and putting the best on the table first.

Edited July 31, 2015 by dark271

[akirby]

you are a moron. they have been neg. for while nowsince before the actual public announcement, if u believe they only start july, you are shallow.

and for you to make a judgement about me without knowing me (only what u read on here) you are REALLY shallow, drop the strike bullshit, cause thats what it is. bullshit

dont think ive ever voted yes on a contract going back to early 90's bottom line im done with you, you are a moron

 

And I'm done with you calling people morons. No personal attacks. LAST warning.

[Decker]

The membership may not be ready for the out of the box mentality. But in every good leaders mind it not only has to be thought of regularly but also put in place so the troops will agree and move to that train of thought. (Success & Benefits equally)

I have read over the years and realized a signal point is made on a regular basis by the work councils, not only as a fact that produced the successes a corporation has but, the work councils refer to efficiencies in productivity by the membership as a tool through any and all negotiations with the corporations.

I find it hard to understand why our organization has never referenced this point in any negotiations. In writing or even word of mouth. Stop and think about how in the average American plants productivity is completely non-discussed. Oh we have line speed's, mix rates and build schedules that have some long forgotten agreement. Are these points of productivity even thought of? Do we have representatives even aware of mix rates or line speeds? Or how just these two points directly effect man power?

If this was a mirror image of the works councils we would not have the lets make a deal mentality that has taken root in everything from the daily floor level deals to the IUAW non published agreements we all become aware of after the deals have been made.

Dark, I to hold out hope for our membership to realize that what the work councils hold as their foundation for building the strength in their organization is nothing more than unionism. Their leader know as everyone in their union they are accountable and work to better the membership which in turn betters the leaders.

Unlike our organization that has washed unionism out of the organizations foundation so as to replace it with the political games and political deals that benefit the few, work councils on the other hand have transparencies build into their system that hold them accountable without fear of political back lash. It is as simple as the record will show what the leaders track records are and accomplishments are to all the membership.

Tennessee proved, even with the work councils backing and written support for organizing the work force in the plant here in the states that the work councils represent in Europe, our organization would not even state that the IUAW would adopt any of the work councils methods. This showed the world how the IUAW would resist losing even the slightest bit of control over the membership, even at the cost of losing another attempt at organizing.

The word "Change" is something that politician's throw around like a cheap bag of chips. Change is what has to happen in the people locked in the box. Then and only then will the people in our organization realize the benefits the work council members realize everyday.

Decker

Edited July 31, 2015 by Decker

[Decker]

Really? dark, name calling?

 

I guess the old long hair is wrong again.... thought you were more open to other opinions and more miles on the odometer?

 

Decker

[Q-bert]

yup, lets go on strike, yea yea

[dark270]

Really? dark, name calling?

 

I guess the old long hair is wrong again.... thought you were more open to other opinions and more miles on the odometer?

 

Decker

meh i call it like i see it, sry if i offended u, however the strike first mentality is not really beneficial to us as a whole and if people dont wake up and realize that, it will be the death of UAW, with right to work here for good, i mean really ? there is many that are waiting to sign off. thats aint good.

[dark270]

The membership may not be ready for the out of the box mentality. But in every good leaders mind it not only has to be thought of regularly but also put in place so the troops will agree and move to that train of thought. (Success & Benefits equally)

 

I have read over the years and realized a signal point is made on a regular basis by the work councils, not only as a fact that produced the successes a corporation has but, the work councils refer to efficiencies in productivity by the membership as a tool through any and all negotiations with the corporations.

 

I find it hard to understand why our organization has never referenced this point in any negotiations. In writing or even word of mouth. Stop and think about how in the average American plants productivity is completely non-discussed. Oh we have line speed's, mix rates and build schedules that have some long forgotten agreement. Are these points of productivity even thought of? Do we have representatives even aware of mix rates or line speeds? Or how just these two points directly effect man power?

 

If this was a mirror image of the works councils we would not have the lets make a deal mentality that has taken root in everything from the daily floor level deals to the IUAW non published agreements we all become aware of after the deals have been made.

 

Dark, I to hold out hope for our membership to realize that what the work councils hold as their foundation for building the strength in their organization is nothing more than unionism. Their leader know as everyone in their union they are accountable and work to better the membership which in turn betters the leaders.

 

Unlike our organization that has washed unionism out of the organizations foundation so as to replace it with the political games and political deals that benefit the few, work councils on the other hand have transparencies build into their system that hold them accountable without fear of political back lash. It is as simple as the record will show what the leaders track records are and accomplishments are to all the membership.

 

Tennessee proved, even with the work councils backing and written support for organizing the work force in the plant here in the states that the work councils represent in Europe, our organization would not even state that the IUAW would adopt any of the work councils methods. This showed the world how the IUAW would resist losing even the slightest bit of control over the membership, even at the cost of losing another attempt at organizing.

 

The word "Change" is something that politician's throw around like a cheap bag of chips. Change is what has to happen in the people locked in the box. Then and only then will the people in our organization realize the benefits the work council members realize everyday.

 

Decker

i agree, however if they dont change soon, we wont have a UAW. i think the deadbeats u see on tv drinking and then going back to work and smoking weed etc. should be fired on the spot, get rid of em, that is one thing wrong with union. if u do a good job, and care , u should be taken care of not the deadbeat .....oh well will see what happens with RTW coming to rest of the states(already in mich)

[jumpercable]

Fatso yes I work for Ford just because we are all not stuck in the days of the past when they treated workers poorly and threw them out when they were done with them. This is no longer acceptable behavior for corporations in the modern world. Yes some rouge companies are not acting responsible. Work councils would be a great thing here but two things need to happen. Educate the workforce so there narrow mind does not think that the "Company" is not the enemy or great Satan. Then all these locals need to start electing smart educated people into leadership positions instead of a popularity, big talkers that only want to get reelected so they can join the IUAW. You know the guys that come to your local and try to bully you into voting the way they want. Make sure you vote for your local bullies it is good to see we have not evolved much in the last 50 years.

[Decker]

meh i call it like i see it, sry if i offended u, however the strike first mentality is not really beneficial to us as a whole and if people dont wake up and realize that, it will be the death of UAW, with right to work here for good, i mean really ? there is many that are waiting to sign off. thats aint good.

No offense taken,

 

Could you point out where fatso implied or stated "strike first" I missed that point.

 

I tend to agree with you on the RTW to work against the organization that represents the auto workers. But, I may be wrong but didn`t our leadership trust in their political alliance they have with the Michigan politicians? I can hear it now, "he said he won`t support that RTW if we helped them!!!!!" "Shit lied to again"..... such is political bed fellows....

 

Actually, the RTW may be a blessing in a great disguise. Lets say the RTW was just another political agreement our organization enter into and got the political weenie. (again, proving their political disabilities) But, if this works to push our leaders to drastic measures just to survive, (maintain their executive privileges) who knows maybe they could become the servicing organization they were intended to be? Servicing the memberships best interests?

 

Nope....never mind.... naaaa ain`t gunna happen sooo... maybe the RTW will put them out of control and the membership can hit the bottom (maybe the proverbial wake call) and starts realizing they need to put together or start working on a new organization that low and behold looks out for the best interest of the members that the organizations leadership is contracted to service...(remember who pays the bills, the second pensions, Cadillac benefits and salaries). Basically people its time to fire your agent. Just look at their tract record, look at where we were and where we are... Hell, if Elton John was represented by these groooomed experts in negotiations....Elton what have called them all a bunch of bitches and told them to hit the road, trick!!!!

 

So I guess we will just have to wait and see.

 

I may offend you but, that's something I`ve been know to do, so don`t feel any personal or directed at you feelings, dark. I too think the only way to show that the labor movement isn`t completely dead or only has no balls men in the movement is to state very clearly.... OVER 4 BILLION SO FAR THIS YEAR AND AVERAGE OF OVER 6 BILLION A YEAR SINCE OUR ORGANIZATIONS LEADERS PROVED TO THE WORLD OUR (let me repeat that dark) OUR LABOR, THE ONLY F`EN PRODUCT OUR MAKE BELIEVE AGENTS HAVE TO SELL WAS SOLD FOR HALF OF WHAT THESE BITCHES GOT FOR THE SAME LABOR JUST THE CONTRACT BEFORE......

 

Put a few more miles on the odometer and watch some of the hair on your balls go gray and then maybe then you won`t feel so offended when grown ups post something that plucks at your strings.

 

Dam... what a f`en old trouble maker I am.....

 

Decker

1 of the 1788 that said no to the agents 2nd tiers

[Decker]

Oh dark... if my old ass remembers things right...it didn`t work out for vader to well... did it? That dam old yoda......

 

Nice shield though.

 

Decker

1 of the 1788

[littlecountry]

Thanks for the compliment DARK, now onto the issue.Ford announced they are moving production of the focus to Mexico less than a week before negotiations began did they do that with a smile?Whats it all mean?It means that this will be a difficult contract and a STRIKE is all the workers have to bargain with so I am not running scared.Jumpercable are even you a Ford employee?

Ford never said they moving it to Mexico, they said another country!

[focusfrank]

Ford never said they moving it to Mexico, they said another country!

Their moving the Focus to Mexico, the same plant where they currently make the Fiesta. They will then move the Fiesta to a plant in Thailand.

[dark270]

No offense taken,

 

Could you point out where fatso implied or stated "strike first" I missed that point.

 

I tend to agree with you on the RTW to work against the organization that represents the auto workers. But, I may be wrong but didn`t our leadership trust in their political alliance they have with the Michigan politicians? I can hear it now, "he said he won`t support that RTW if we helped them!!!!!" "Shit lied to again"..... such is political bed fellows....

 

Actually, the RTW may be a blessing in a great disguise. Lets say the RTW was just another political agreement our organization enter into and got the political weenie. (again, proving their political disabilities) But, if this works to push our leaders to drastic measures just to survive, (maintain their executive privileges) who knows maybe they could become the servicing organization they were intended to be? Servicing the memberships best interests?

 

Nope....never mind.... naaaa ain`t gunna happen sooo... maybe the RTW will put them out of control and the membership can hit the bottom (maybe the proverbial wake call) and starts realizing they need to put together or start working on a new organization that low and behold looks out for the best interest of the members that the organizations leadership is contracted to service...(remember who pays the bills, the second pensions, Cadillac benefits and salaries). Basically people its time to fire your agent. Just look at their tract record, look at where we were and where we are... Hell, if Elton John was represented by these groooomed experts in negotiations....Elton what have called them all a bunch of bitches and told them to hit the road, trick!!!!

 

So I guess we will just have to wait and see.

 

I may offend you but, that's something I`ve been know to do, so don`t feel any personal or directed at you feelings, dark. I too think the only way to show that the labor movement isn`t completely dead or only has no balls men in the movement is to state very clearly.... OVER 4 BILLION SO FAR THIS YEAR AND AVERAGE OF OVER 6 BILLION A YEAR SINCE OUR ORGANIZATIONS LEADERS PROVED TO THE WORLD OUR (let me repeat that dark) OUR LABOR, THE ONLY F`EN PRODUCT OUR MAKE BELIEVE AGENTS HAVE TO SELL WAS SOLD FOR HALF OF WHAT THESE BITCHES GOT FOR THE SAME LABOR JUST THE CONTRACT BEFORE......

 

Put a few more miles on the odometer and watch some of the hair on your balls go gray and then maybe then you won`t feel so offended when grown ups post something that plucks at your strings.

 

Dam... what a f`en old trouble maker I am.....

 

Decker

1 of the 1788 that said no to the agents 2nd tiers

While some of that may be true I really fail to see how any of that change will occur..... With politicians hating us from both parties it won't be long before the union is extinct..... Then what?

[dark270]

Oh dark... if my old ass remembers things right...it didn`t work out for vader to well... did it? That dam old yoda......

 

Nice shield though.

 

Decker

1 of the 1788

 

 

That's why it's call science fiction. But I'm my mind he was a bad ass that did very well in his time.... I respect that. And he got shit done......

[fuzzymoomoo]

Their moving the Focus to Mexico, the same plant where they currently make the Fiesta. They will then move the Fiesta to a plant in Thailand.

They already build the Fiesta in Thailand for Asia. North American Fiesta production is staying right where it is

[focusfrank]

They already build the Fiesta in Thailand for Asia. North American Fiesta production is staying right where it is

Yeah your right that it's already being built in Thailand but the Detroit News reported that as of 2016 FMC will consolidate the building of the Fiesta to the plant in Thailand. So it will no longer be built in Mexico also. The Focus IS going to Mexico..

[fuzzymoomoo]

Yeah your right that it's already being built in Thailand but the Detroit News reported that as of 2016 FMC will consolidate the building of the Fiesta to the plant in Thailand. So it will no longer be built in Mexico also. The Focus IS going to Mexico..

Really? I must have missed that article (about the Fiesta) or part of whatever article it was in. The Focus going to Mexico was painfully obvious. Stevie Wonder could have seen that.

[jumpercable]

Exactly dark then what??? It will too late to salvage anything with the UAW. But there is also the possibility that someone might step up and start some kind of union with a new direction and agenda that actually fits in the global economy and can work in this century? Or not???? Don't think we can jump start this old model of the UAW?

[jumpercable]

Exactly dark then what??? It will too late to salvage anything with the UAW. But there is also the possibility that someone might step up and start some kind of union with a new direction and agenda that actually fits in the global economy and can work in this century? Or not???? Don't think we can jump start this old model of the UAW?

[fuzzymoomoo]

But there is also the possibility that someone might step up and start some kind of union with a new direction and agenda that actually fits in the global economy and can work in this century?

That can't happen. As much as some people wish it could. The UAW has exclusive rights to organize in all Ford facilities

[Decker]

Hmmm...? Sounds as if history might be repeating its self. fuzzy, a man by the name of Henry said something very similar to what you said.

Henry, went on record stating there was no way the union would ever set up shop in any one of his plants. A couple brothers and a group of laborers put together some crazy ideas. Expressed these ideas to the laborers in the plants. Got some ass kickin's, some sittin downs and some ain't taken this shit attitudes. Henry didn't like the brothers ideas but he realized he had lost the "it can`t happen" fight. The rest is history.

The brothers and the group of laborers that "thought for themselves" and put the ideas together won such things like health care, pensions, paid time off, dependent benefits, life insurance, scheduled hourly rate increases, seniority, classification descriptions, trades grouping and equal pay for equal labor.

If you were to look up the dates these benefits were secured, it paints a picture of an organization that has not only been doing the back peddling that has been in full view of everyone as supporting the other side of the table but, this organization has adopted the same techniques that the companies used against the brothers and laborers so many years ago. Threats of loss of employment, fear and intimidation seem to be coming from our agents on a regular schedule of every four years.

I read along time ago, after the brothers and laborers won their right to organize, Henry not long there after the laborers win stated "I (Henry) will control their union by one simple gift, executive privilege".

He set up offices for the union rep's, allowed free meals at the cafeteria, gave the rep's the privilege to come and go with no regard to the time clock and the greatest idea Henry ever had, the company control of the paying of the union representatives. "Executive privileges"

With this rambling, I would add, it's been said many times "it can't happen". But, it can if the laborers finally get tired of the same, if not worse treatment the company gave the brothers and the laborers that "thought for themselves" way back when.

The labor movement that the brothers organized is all but dead. IMO
I base my opinion on these observations and first-hand experiences.
Threats of loss of your employment. Fear of retaliation. Intimidation from the leadership.
This all from the organization we pay to represent us and to be our voice at the table that governs our lives.

fuzzy I enjoy reading your posts and was truly glad things are looking up for you as an organized laborer but, I hope you are wrong.

I truly believe it's time to pick out what good apples that might be left and throw out all the rotten apples and all the dead weight at the bottom of the laborers basket. Then do something that hasn't been done in a long time, fill the laborers basket with apples the laborers can benefits from, instead of the apples working to be apart of some executive pie.

Decker
1 of the 1788

Edited August 1, 2015 by Decker

[fuzzymoomoo]

Well said Decker. I tend to agree with you, but I don't have nearly the experience as you have, the kind that comes over time, so I can't say I know exactly what you are talking about. I do however feel that this contract is put up or shut up time for the UAW. I feel like far more people are willing to leave than they seem to believe. Call it arrogance.

[nmsford]

Exactly dark then what??? It will too late to salvage anything with the UAW. But there is also the possibility that someone might step up and start some kind of union with a new direction and agenda that actually fits in the global economy and can work in this century? Or not???? Don't think we can jump start this old model of the UAW?

Nothing will ever change with the UAW until us common folk have some say-so in IAUW affairs. We need the right to choose who goes international, we should have a say in who represents us on the higher level.