catan70 Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Just curious if anyone has heard anything on it. I said this before that I think the gm full size suv's are vulnerable right now. Their sales are going down now that the must have's have em. I don't think that they are that great looking either. I feel like this is a segment that ford underperforms with lots of potential there. Any idea when it would be shown or what it may look like? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 I'd be shocked if the Expedition didn't share most of its sheetmetal, interior, chassis and drivetrains with the F150. Maybe a new grille and IRS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpvbs Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Even with the refresh, Expedition sales tanked in May. They were down something like 30% YOY. A replacement can't get here soon enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Down 17.5% And Navigator sales were up 50.1%. It's one month, I wouldn't read too much into it. And besides, these were always meant as stopgaps for the new models. Any additional sales they get are great. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Expedition with eco has been getting good press and word of mouth......and supply has been limited....so remains to be seen if that 17% drop is actually indicative of.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NLPRacing Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 More full size SUV's are sold in Texas than any other state and most of Texas was under water in May. The only thing selling here was boats. Now that the water is receding I wouldn't be surprised to see a spike in Expy sales to tow all them new boats to all the lakes around here that are finally filled up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Gas spiked $.40 in May, at least in Michigan. That may account for the slight drop in sales for the month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave91gt Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 I agree it needs an overhaul. We are buying a 2015 Limited tomorrow. We have been looking around for a few months and honestly, the inventories haven't moved in any of our local dealerships. It seems all we find are white and black. She wants Ruby Red. But, that said, the 2015 has just enough to bring us back. Primarily the Ecoboost and the MFT. My wife had an 08 Eddie Bauer we traded on an Explorer Sport early last year. It had every option but Navigation. We actually liked the vehicle a lot but we bought it used with a replacement motor and once it started giving me issues I pushed to trade. The 5.4 and 3.31 gears were pretty lame living in WV. The Explorer is a blast. Lots of fun to drive. Our problem is space. We have 2 kids-a nearly 6' tall 14 year old and a rapidly growing 7 year old. So, we began searching. We drove the Expedition and the Sequoia. The kids liked the 2nd row 10X better in the Sequoia. It had a center console, sliding rear seats, blueray player, etc. Plus, the rear windows actually roll all the way down. But the price is insane (dealers wouldn't budge) and the wife didn't like driving it. Plus, the Expedition had noticeably more kick in the pants with the Ecoboost. I drive a 14 F150 FX4 (Eco) and both it and her Explorer have the MFT. Neither of us have had any issues whatsoever and she is used to navigating it. So, IMO, Ford did just enough to make it relevant. As far as the GM twins, I just don't get the love. I do not like the looks of the new ones at all. The interiors though are pretty nice. I have always liked the appearance of the Expedition. GM hit the nail on the marketing head with the twins. I see soccer moms everywhere driving them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerM Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 I rented both an Expedition (the longer model--XL?) and a Tahoe last fall. Both were competent, but lessons in extremes. The Tahoe's dash and instrument cluster seemed to be trying to do/show everything at once with a layout that--while very modern--was so busy it felt like it wasn't designed so much as assembled from parts that came from different committees with differing design philosophies. The Expedition's dash felt like I traveled back in time. It was functional, but looked like something from a pre-smartphone era. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 (edited) That's only next year, so by then we should have some confirmation on gas price movements, new alloy Expedition/Navigator with significant weigh reductions and next gen Ecoboost V6 could be arriving just in time as the others feel the pinch of for rising gas prices..... With a bigger body than F150, I'd say the chances of even more weight reductions are good, maybe 800 lbs with lighter frame too? Team that with F150's 2.7 EB the 5.0 V8 and the new 3.5 EB and .. almost like another line of F150...I think Ford will be on a winner. And then there's Bronco, will it be a SWB two-door Expedition? Edited June 5, 2015 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ice-capades Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 I can only share my experience and observations regard the Expedition in general. Our store (CT) might stock one or two Expeditions a year yet we only sell one at retail each year. Much of the time a Dealer from a larger market takes one of ours via a Dealer Swap/Transfer. For years the only full size SUV that had any cache was the Escalade and then the other volume sellers in our market being the Tahoe and Yukon. Yes, I'm leaving out the Suburban. The combined sales for the Escalade, Tahoe and Yukon are probably 30x the Expedition sales in our general market area. In my opinion, the Expedition exterior has never been distinctive enough, primarily the front end, to make it stand out and make a full size, luxury SUV impression. As for colors, the best selling colors across all vehicle lines are Black, White, Silver & Grey although not necessarily in that order. For an Expedition order, I'd never consider anything other than Black or White based on the extremely low Expedition sales volume. Stocking a Race Red or Ruby Red Expedition just isn't going to happen at our store. Our former Sales Manager, now General Manager, insisted that I order a loaded Super Duty Crew Cab in Ruby Red and it sat for almost a year before just the right customer came in. Dealers have to stock the vehicles that sell in a certain volume and can only take so many chances on stocking an unpopular equipment level or color. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catan70 Posted June 5, 2015 Author Share Posted June 5, 2015 I think that the reason the expy gets outsold so much is the Tahoe has looked more suv like whereas the expy has an aggressive truck frontend and I don't think the the aggressive front is what appeals to the soccer mom. That's a reason why I think the explorer sells so well...it just looks classy. A question i have is if ford comes out with the new expedition looking good, will it compete on a sales level with the gm twins? Those large suv's for gm are a cash cow and I imagine they have to be a little worried about what ford does. Will people who purchase tahoes consider an expy if it looks good? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 (edited) Expedition sales are keeping pace from last year so far... the one month dip is probably due to Texas flooding as someone mentioned. GM is selling a lot more fullsize SUVs than Ford but GM is active in the airport towncar fleet market with their fullsize SUVs. Ford choose to focus on retail market a few years ago, probably for CAFE reasons when the trucks were using 5.4 V8... focus on profit yield and trim the volumes and thus the negative impact to Ford's CAFE. Ford builds Expedition and Navigator in the same plant as super-duty trucks so it doesn't need to worry about maintaining output volume to keep the lights on. GM has a plant dedicated to building Escalade, Tahoe/Suburban, and Yukon... so their respective production decisions tend to dictate what they can and will do to maintain sales volume. Edited June 6, 2015 by bzcat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PREMiERdrum Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 Expedition sales are keeping pace from last year so far... the one month dip is probably due to Texas flooding as someone mentioned. GM is selling a lot more fullsize SUVs than Ford but GM is active in the airport towncar fleet market with their fullsize SUVs. Ford choose to focus on retail market a few years ago, probably for CAFE reasons when the trucks were using 5.4 V8... focus on profit yield and trim the volumes and thus the negative impact to Ford's CAFE. Ford builds Expedition and Navigator in the same plant as super-duty trucks so it doesn't need to worry about maintaining output volume to keep the lights on. GM has a plant dedicated to building Escalade, Tahoe/Suburban, and Yukon... so their respective production decisions tend to dictate what they can and will do to maintain sales volume. GM is also about to expand that plant and up capacity dramatically because they can't build them fast enough. It's extremely shortsighted, but hey, its GM were talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catan70 Posted June 6, 2015 Author Share Posted June 6, 2015 GM is also about to expand that plant and up capacity dramatically because they can't build them fast enough. It's extremely shortsighted, but hey, its GM were talking about. Yeah but those SUVs are printing $ for gm. And for the most part they really don't have any serious competition so why not expand and push for more sales Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpvbs Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 I think that the reason the expy gets outsold so much is the Tahoe has looked more suv like whereas the expy has an aggressive truck frontend and I don't think the the aggressive front is what appeals to the soccer mom. That's a reason why I think the explorer sells so well...it just looks classy. A question i have is if ford comes out with the new expedition looking good, will it compete on a sales level with the gm twins? Those large suv's for gm are a cash cow and I imagine they have to be a little worried about what ford does. Will people who purchase tahoes consider an expy if it looks good? I do think you are right that GM has done a lot more to differentiate their SUV from their trucks. It seems the typical buyer is looking for a large AWD minivan alternative, not a truck. The problem I see with the Expy is that they softened it enough so that it no longer appeals to someone looking for a "trucky" capable looking SUV, but it isn't soft enough for the minivan replacement crowd either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 Yeah but those SUVs are printing $ for gm. And for the most part they really don't have any serious competition so why not expand and push for more sales Because adding capacity is incredibly expensive. I wouldn't be surprised if it costs well over $100M. And granted, it's easier to reduce staff now than it was in the past, but it's still a lot harder to layoff than it is to hire. Doing anything structural gets into money, and carries an implicit assumption that the market is normalizing around this kind of volume and not peaking at this kind of volume. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 And granted, it's easier to reduce staff now than it was in the past, but it's still a lot harder to layoff than it is to hire. Ford is learning that the hard way now with the shift elimination at MAP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NLPRacing Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 GM is also about to expand that plant and up capacity dramatically because they can't build them fast enough. It's extremely shortsighted, but hey, its GM were talking about. GM's expansion of the SUV plant is much appreciated here in Arlington, Texas. Especially when you're in the tool & die business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 The Expedition doesn't sell well because it looks nearly identical to the 2007 model that I had. I change vehicles every 2 - 3 years and the Expedtion isn't even in the running because of that fact, and changing the motor and a couple other bits won't change that. At least the Navigator changes are somewhat compelling. It does look moderately different enough that I would consider it. I think the sales numbers of the Navigator reflect that sentiment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 The Expedition doesn't sell well because it looks nearly identical to the 2007 model that I had. I change vehicles every 2 - 3 years and the Expedtion isn't even in the running because of that fact, and changing the motor and a couple other bits won't change that. At least the Navigator changes are somewhat compelling. It does look moderately different enough that I would consider it. I think the sales numbers of the Navigator reflect that sentiment. Though as has been mentioned they're both stopgaps, I can agree with that. The degree of change on the Navigator was more than that of the Expedition. Navi got a fresh look front and back. The Expy got a mild refresh that looks almost the same as the one it replaced up front, and a chrome bar on the liftgate. It'll all change with the coming models though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 I am very interested in seeing this new duo. If there is any truth in the 2017 Ex/Nav being released in 2016, it will be right in line with my replacement schedule. I am really pulling for them to bring the wow factor, especially if the Lincoln is supposed to compete with the range rover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBirdStangSkyliner Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 I'm likely to buy the next generation. The main put-offs for me in doing this would be 1). If they can the IRS and lose the low floor height, 2). failure to have adjustable headrests (huge comfort issue for me and I think a lots of other people), and if they can't make meaningful MPG improvements while keeping towing capacity above about 8700 lbs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 (edited) I don't know if Ford will keep the IRS but I suspect the F-150 frame was designed with Expedition in mind from the beginning so they probably make provisions for it. And if Ford wants Navigator to compete with Range Rover, then IRS is a bare minimum requirement. Some fancy adjustable suspension is probably required. I know that the fold flat seats are a major selling point over the GM fullsize for a lot of Expedition owners. Edited June 10, 2015 by bzcat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NLPRacing Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 I don't know if Ford will keep the IRS but I suspect the F-150 frame was designed with Expedition in mind from the beginning so they probably make provisions for it. And if Ford wants Navigator to compete with Range Rover, then IRS is a bare minimum requirement. Some fancy adjustable suspension is probably required. I know that the fold flat seats are a major selling point over the GM fullsize for a lot of Expedition owners. I would be shocked if the next gen Expy doesn't have IRS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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