ANTAUS Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 http://www.autoblog.com/2015/04/21/ford-vignale-mondeo-europe-official/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 http://www.autoblog.com/2015/04/21/ford-vignale-mondeo-europe-official/ Still say that wagon would do well here-in particular with AWD. Not a box like Flex and while I'm sure one of the arguments would be too much overlap with Explorer, could make it on looks alone. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 (edited) Subaru sold 139k Outback in the US in 2014 but Subaru doesn't have a midsize SUV crowding the showroom. Ford can probably sell a decent number of AWD Mondeo wagon with 1 inch suspension lift and extra cladding in the US, but it will likely come at the expense of cannibalizing some Edge sales. It will have to be imported from Spain so now you are talking about plant utilization and where else Ford can sell those Mondeo... the math is not exactly clear. Or it could just steer those buyers towards an Edge and not lose sleep over the handful of wagon diehards like us. Edited April 22, 2015 by bzcat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Subaru sold 139k Outback in the US in 2014 but Subaru doesn't have a midsize SUV crowding the showroom. Ford can probably sell a decent number of AWD Mondeo wagon with 1 inch suspension lift and extra cladding in the US, but it will likely come at the expense of cannibalizing some Edge sales. It will have to be imported from Spain so now you are talking about plant utilization and where else Ford can sell those Mondeo... the math is not exactly clear. Or it could just steer those buyers towards an Edge and not lose sleep over the handful of wagon diehards like us. Bingo. Of course they could sell some here but at what expense? If you have to import it and all you do is replace sales of other existing products then what's the point? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 (edited) Subaru sold 139k Outback in the US in 2014 but Subaru doesn't have a midsize SUV crowding the showroom. Ford can probably sell a decent number of AWD Mondeo wagon with 1 inch suspension lift and extra cladding in the US, but it will likely come at the expense of cannibalizing some Edge sales. It will have to be imported from Spain so now you are talking about plant utilization and where else Ford can sell those Mondeo... the math is not exactly clear. Or it could just steer those buyers towards an Edge and not lose sleep over the handful of wagon diehards like us. Subaru had a midsized CUV in the tribeca, and I don't think anyone would say the having the outback hurt Tribeca Sales. Cannibalization doesn't happen as much as some here believe it does, even if it does not all cannibalization is Destructive. It should never be an excuse to not offer a new product. I believe a Fusion wagon could even outsell the Taurus, 35,000 in the US and another 20,000 in Canada. The best part about it is there Isn't any direct competition for it. Edited April 22, 2015 by Biker16 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Subaru had a midsized CUV in the tribeca, and I don't think anyone would say the having the outback hurt Tribeca Sales. Cannibalization doesn't happen as much as some here believe it does, even if it does not all cannibalization is Destructive. It shopuld never be an excuse to not offer a new product. The Tribeca hurt its own sales by being absolutely hideous. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Subaru had a midsized CUV in the tribeca, and I don't think anyone would say the having the outback hurt Tribeca Sales. Then why did Subaru stop building midsize CUVs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Then why did Subaru stop building midsize CUVs? Maybe they Were afraid of cannibalizing their Wagon sales? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
630land Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 The current Subaru Outbacks are now really CUV's. Once they made them more 'truck like', sales jumped. Ask any woman at the Mall if their new Outback is a 'station wagon', she will howl "No way, that's what my Grandmother drove".* Also, they are planning a 7 seat CUV. Also, they dropped the WRX 'wagon' which really was a 5 door hatch. So, no, Subaru is not 'bringing back the Station Wagon'. *Can change the gender and same result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Maybe they Were afraid of cannibalizing their Wagon sales? Well, if you start with the premise that differentiation prevents cannibalization, the only differentiation between the Outback & the B-9 Tribeca* was that one of them was ugly enough to make a train take a dirt road. *Let's all revel in the refulgent glory of the complete name of that thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
630land Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Outbacks are marketed as SUV's, too. They dropped the Legacy wagon for one thing, years ago. Sure, Ford could spend $$ trying to "educate" buyers about the virtues of wagons for the Purists, but then average buyers would still roll their eyes and go "gimme a darn SUV please!". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 Subaru had a midsized CUV in the tribeca, and I don't think anyone would say the having the outback hurt Tribeca Sales. Cannibalization doesn't happen as much as some here believe it does, even if it does not all cannibalization is Destructive. It should never be an excuse to not offer a new product. I believe a Fusion wagon could even outsell the Taurus, 35,000 in the US and another 20,000 in Canada. The best part about it is there Isn't any direct competition for it. Actually that is what my thought was. I think the Mondeo is a great looking vehicle, but it IS a Fusion right? If they can put a hatch on it in the EU how big an issue to do it here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 Actually that is what my thought was. I think the Mondeo is a great looking vehicle, but it IS a Fusion right? If they can put a hatch on it in the EU how big an issue to do it here? It's not that difficult although you'd have to import it or add new stamping dies to FRAP. Plus new crash tests. But there is no way they get any significant volume. Ask Honda. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 Subaru had a midsized CUV in the tribeca, and I don't think anyone would say the having the outback hurt Tribeca Sales. Cannibalization doesn't happen as much as some here believe it does, even if it does not all cannibalization is Destructive. It should never be an excuse to not offer a new product. I believe a Fusion wagon could even outsell the Taurus, 35,000 in the US and another 20,000 in Canada. The best part about it is there Isn't any direct competition for it. I doubt it. Sure it's a good looking wagon, but I don't see it selling much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonj80 Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 As much as the internet loves wagons they don't sell anywhere in the world outside of Europe. Even in Europe the market share of wagons is going down while SUV sales boom. Its a niche market, Ford would sell more Thailand Rangers with a 25% chicken tax added than they would sell Fusion Wagons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
probowler Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 Bingo. Of course they could sell some here but at what expense? If you have to import it and all you do is replace sales of other existing products then what's the point? Happy customers? That's definitely worth something.... and if they're able to do it profitably, it's a win/win? Just depends how much investment/research/testing money it would require I suppose Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKII Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 Even in Europe the market share of wagons is going down while SUV sales boom. Its a niche market, Any back up stats regarding your statement? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 Any back up stats regarding your statement? I'm sure the data will support his claim. 10 years ago, CUVs sales barely exists in Europe. Now there is an entire brand (i.e. Nissan) that mainly just sell CUVs in Europe. Also look at the product offerings. All the B-segment wagons have pretty much disappeared in favor of CUVs and MPVs. No more Opel Corsa wagon. No more VW Polo wagon. No more Renault Clio wagon. C-segment CUVs are also much more popular than just a few years ago in Europe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKII Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 (edited) I'm sure the data will support his claim. 10 years ago, CUVs sales barely exists in Europe. Now there is an entire brand (i.e. Nissan) that mainly just sell CUVs in Europe. Also look at the product offerings. All the B-segment wagons have pretty much disappeared in favor of CUVs and MPVs. No more Opel Corsa wagon. No more VW Polo wagon. No more Renault Clio wagon. C-segment CUVs are also much more popular than just a few years ago in Europe. Maybe, but it would be good to see stats to support the assumption. From my reading, according to JATO Dynamics (2014) the stats show that the boom for SUVs and crossovers hit small minivans, which shrank by 10 percent to 343,268 units, and compact minivans, which slid 3.2 percent to 664,197 units. No doubt CUV/SUV sales for 2014 in Europe increased big time, but I would be very surprised to see stats showing that SUV sales are stealing market share from the very popular wagon variants. I have not seen any reports regarding declining market share on wagon variants, so cannot say it is so or not. There have been new wagons added by numerous brands, such as Seat & Skoda, Hyundai & Kia are some I can think of. Nine of the top 10-selling cars in Europe are available as station wagons. Edited April 23, 2015 by MKII Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-S Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 I m sure Ford's marketing people have looked at this situation in depth and if they concluded it won't be profitable then we won't see the wagon. I also think the appeal for the wagon may be more with auto enthusiasts rather than family truckster types. The only thing I wish Ford would do is offer the hatchback version of the Fusion. The tiny trunk openings on most of the fast back four doors these days suck and the Hatchback solves that issue without changing the looks of the car one bit while at the same time offering great versatility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 (edited) It's not that difficult although you'd have to import it or add new stamping dies to FRAP. Plus new crash tests. But there is no way they get any significant volume. Ask Honda. what? are you comparing this to this? you wold need body side dies but the smaller parts that are not common could be sourced from Europe, and wagons specific components, Seats, trim could be imported from the EU to minimize start-up costs, until centralized sourcing is developed. Edited April 27, 2015 by Biker16 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 No, this one...... the one that they sold here for awhile then killed because it didn't sell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 No, this one...... the one that they sold here for awhile then killed because it didn't sell. Ford and honda also killed the focus and Civic hatcback, both have or will brought them back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
630land Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 (edited) Hatchbacks aren't station wagons. I'd be willing to bet there will be an AWD version of Mk4 Focus, and marketed as an 'SUV'. Oh wait, it's called Escape. That Accord wagon was marketed as such and bombed worse than the Aztek. Face it, American women decide what the family car is going to be, and they flat out reject Euro-phile loved wagons. Can whine about it, post thousands of times on BON, but nothing will change. Edited April 27, 2015 by 630land 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 Hatchbacks aren't station wagons. I'd be willing to bet there will be an AWD version of Mk4 Focus, and marketed as an 'SUV'. Oh wait, it's called Escape. That Accord wagon was marketed as such and bombed worse than the Aztek. Face it, American women decide what the family car is going to be, and they flat out reject Euro-phile loved wagons. Can whine about it, post thousands of times on BON, but nothing will change. thank you for Sharing your opinion of what everyone else wants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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