Mark Young Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 I bought my 05 expy 7 months ago with 99K miles it had signs of cam-phaser failure so I replaced the whole front of the engine. Last month at 108K miles started again with all the classic signs of cam-phaser failure (rough idle, stalling, sounds like a diesel). I attempted every fix possible to no avail, I took it to our Ford dealer and they said low oil pressure has caused cylinder wall damage = NEW ENGINE. So I bought a re-manned engine from a local shop with upgraded oil pump and ratcheting tentioners to avoid chain slap and new VVT solenoids. I installed it and have the exact same problems. I took it back to the dealer because they miss-diagnosed it and they said again engine failure. I get a P0012 for bank 1 over retarded. I'm sooo angry that I've spent $4500 and nothing was fixed. I think there is a PCM issue or wiring problem. Please help, I believe someone has a fix for this Thanks Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 (edited) What kind of feed back are you looking for? Not sure what you want.... Is it: A.) You bought the truck knowing it had a problem B.) You replaced the "whole front of the engine" and it began to act up again C.) You took it to a Ford dealer and they gave you a diagnosis that I can only assume you did not like, so you.. D.) Took it to a local shop for a re-manufactured engine (from who?) and installed it with the same result. E.) THEN....you took it back to the Ford dealer because you think they misdiagnosed the problem but tell you that you have engine failure....again!!! so, then... F.) Now you want to know what to do?? My suggestion is.... G.) Let the Ford dealer fix the truck and stop having different shops take stabs at it....(NOTE: This should have been "A") Edited March 29, 2015 by twintornados Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1143504-2008-f150-5-4l-barely-staying-running-throws-code-p0012.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT90SC Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 What is your oil pressure at hot idle? It HAS to be 20 PSI or more. Also, low oil pressure will show up on bank 1 first as it is the furthest from the pump. Just because you installed a reman engine doesn't mean it is good. Also, it is possible to plug the oil galley- especially on the bank 1 side- with gunk from a low quality oil filter or gunk that has not gotten cleaned out of parts that are reused when putting a reman engine in, like the oil pan, valve covers, etc. Which engine was put in? Long block? Short block? If you didn't use NEW heads or at least fully reman heads where the bearing surfaces are recut and actual bearings installed, you will get the same issues again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Young Posted March 31, 2015 Author Share Posted March 31, 2015 (edited) What kind of feed back are you looking for? Not sure what you want.... Is it: A.) You bought the truck knowing it had a problem B.) You replaced the "whole front of the engine" and it began to act up again C.) You took it to a Ford dealer and they gave you a diagnosis that I can only assume you did not like, so you.. D.) Took it to a local shop for a re-manufactured engine (from who?) and installed it with the same result. E.) THEN....you took it back to the Ford dealer because you think they misdiagnosed the problem but tell you that you have engine failure....again!!! so, then... F.) Now you want to know what to do?? My suggestion is.... G.) Let the Ford dealer fix the truck and stop having different shops take stabs at it....(NOTE: This should have been "A") I'm not sure why you would automatically assume I am some unruly customer. A) Yes I did, I see the error in it now, it was a great deal based on the idea I could fix it. B) Yes, 7 months ago I replaced Cam-phasers, chains, guides, tensioners, crank sprocket, spark-plugs. C) No, after the expedition started acting up again, I took it to Ford who told me the motor was shot due to low oil pressure and cylinder wall damage. D) Based on Ford's diagnosis I bought a remanufactured engine from Metric Motors and installed it myself. Yes, it sounds like a diesel while running with Bank 1 codes it had originally. E) I took this back to Ford because they mis-diagnosed the problem and asked them to find out the real problem, wiring, PCM, relay, etc. F&G) Ford is the only one who took a stab at it, and got it wrong, when it went back all they would do is run codes nothing more. Since their mis-diagnosis cost me $4500, I expect them to spend their time finding the real problem. Edited March 31, 2015 by Mark Young Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Young Posted March 31, 2015 Author Share Posted March 31, 2015 What is your oil pressure at hot idle? It HAS to be 20 PSI or more. Also, low oil pressure will show up on bank 1 first as it is the furthest from the pump. Just because you installed a reman engine doesn't mean it is good. Also, it is possible to plug the oil galley- especially on the bank 1 side- with gunk from a low quality oil filter or gunk that has not gotten cleaned out of parts that are reused when putting a reman engine in, like the oil pan, valve covers, etc. Which engine was put in? Long block? Short block? If you didn't use NEW heads or at least fully reman heads where the bearing surfaces are recut and actual bearings installed, you will get the same issues again. It is a 5.4 Long Block. I do not know about oil pressure at hot idle yet I'll see what I can do to find out. The shop I bought the motor from runs the engine at 500 RPM from a DC motor to check compression of each cylinder and test the VVT solenoids while running fresh oil through the engine without a pan to flush out any impurities, then delivers the engine. After I installed it I used Joe Gibbs break-in oil with a WIX filter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 I'm not sure why you would automatically assume I am some unruly customer. E) I took this back to Ford because they mis-diagnosed the problem and asked them to find out the real problem, wiring, PCM, relay, etc. F&G) Ford is the only one who took a stab at it, and got it wrong, when it went back all they would do is run codes nothing more. Since their mis-diagnosis cost me $4500, I expect them to spend their time finding the real problem. I don't know where you took that I "assume" you are an unruly customer.....never assume.... So, with that said, you claim you took it to "Ford"....now it is my turn to assume....you took it to a Ford Dealership or did you drive your truck down to Kansas City Truck Assembly or Michigan Truck Assembly and have the crew on the line diagnose your problem... I assume the former, but you seem to want to lay blame on Ford for the dealership "mis-diagnosis" of your truck. Do not expect them to do anything....you were the one that installed the motor, not them....You could just as easily have the codes run at any independent ASC repair shop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT90SC Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Again, you still could have low HOT oil pressure. You still could have issues with the timing components- including miss timing. You still could have plugging of the oil galleys for the phasers/tensioners. It literally could take just ONE bit of crap in the wrong spot to have issues again. You still could have head issues. I've seen remans with the phaser bolts mistorqued and the locating pin sheared off. New/Reman does not mean "good". Does it do it as soon as it is started? Does it have to get warm to rattle? Does it do it with the VCT solenoids unplugged? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT90SC Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Nevermind, I looked at your other thread. Does it only rattle at idle? Once it is rattling, unplug the VCT solenoids but keep the same RPM. Does the rattle go away? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Young Posted April 6, 2015 Author Share Posted April 6, 2015 Nevermind, I looked at your other thread. Does it only rattle at idle? Once it is rattling, unplug the VCT solenoids but keep the same RPM. Does the rattle go away? Thank you very much for taking the time to help me with this, sorry for the delay I've been sick and I hope my explanations make sense. I have my Expedition at the engine shop, I have asked them to get the hot oil pressure reading and check the timing. It does not rattle at start up, but starts after driving a short distance, and is only noticeable at idle (Its hard to tell cruising around). Depending on what the engine shop encounters I will try trouble-shooting by unplugging the VCT Solenoids while the engine is rattling. (Unplugging these will not cause cam damage, correct?) Side note: The other day after getting off the freeway the expedition was sputtering and ready to stall but no codes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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