littlecountry Posted April 1, 2015 Author Share Posted April 1, 2015 Parts/plants that Ford has outsourced/shut down would not be considered tier 3 in my opinion. But jobs such as cleaners and people who certify parts inside Ford plants I would consider 3rd tier workers. Especially since those jobs used to be Our jobs that Ford outsourced and UAW didn't seem to put up much of a fight. Once again Voith workers do not receive a Ford paycheck therefore they have nothing to do with the tier wage system within Ford Motor Company! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RougeWelder Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Parts/plants that Ford has outsourced/shut down would not be considered tier 3 in my opinion. But jobs such as cleaners and people who certify parts inside Ford plants I would consider 3rd tier workers. Especially since those jobs used to be Our jobs that Ford outsourced and UAW didn't seem to put up much of a fight. FYI....you contradicted yourself in one sentence. You specifically state that "especially" jobs(cleaners and part certifiers) that used to be ours and got outsourced should be considered 3rd tier but the outsourced jobs at parts/plants that used to ours and used to be Ford plants are not???? I don't see the difference between the two. Both "used to be" our(Ford) jobs. Now they are operated by someone else paying less $$$ and benefits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmsford Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 When it comes to plants that have been shut down and outsourced there's not a whole hell of a lot that can be done about it, ford doesn't want to make them parts anymore so they got rid of the work. When it comes to cleaners etc. etc. jobs working in your plant that we used to do but Ford is trying to save a few dollars by hiring an outside company to do it now, that's a whole different story in my book. These are jobs that IUAW could possibly do something about getting them back, closed plants they don't have a chance of getting that work back. A few years back Ford outsourced our Hilo drivers but it didn't last long and we got them jobs back. This is just my opinion, if u don't agree I couldn't care less Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlecountry Posted April 3, 2015 Author Share Posted April 3, 2015 When it comes to plants that have been shut down and outsourced there's not a whole hell of a lot that can be done about it, ford doesn't want to make them parts anymore so they got rid of the work. When it comes to cleaners etc. etc. jobs working in your plant that we used to do but Ford is trying to save a few dollars by hiring an outside company to do it now, that's a whole different story in my book. These are jobs that IUAW could possibly do something about getting them back, closed plants they don't have a chance of getting that work back. A few years back Ford outsourced our Hilo drivers but it didn't last long and we got them jobs back. This is just my opinion, if u don't agree I couldn't care less You confuse yourself! You have no clue how things work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmsford Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Lol. Ok guy. I know exactly what jobs used to be Ford jobs and now they're not. At my plant we have probably around 100 jobs that are done by other companies that used to be our jobs. And I'm pretty sure you don't have a clue about how anyting works. All you do is post ignorant comments constantly on this forum, just to piss people off. Go run your mouth to someone who gives a shit 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlecountry Posted April 3, 2015 Author Share Posted April 3, 2015 Lol. Ok guy. I know exactly what jobs used to be Ford jobs and now they're not. At my plant we have probably around 100 jobs that are done by other companies that used to be our jobs. And I'm pretty sure you don't have a clue about how anyting works. All you do is post ignorant comments constantly on this forum, just to piss people off. Go run your mouth to someone who gives a shit You would never have enough seniority to hold a clean up job anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmsford Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 thats funny you talk about seniority quite a bit. You don't know me. How can u make such a stab in the dark idiotic comment like that when u don't know a thing about me??? I used to be a cleaner before they got rid of them. and I have a good job now, I'm sure it's better than whatever assembly job you're on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decker Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 thats funny you talk about seniority quite a bit. You don't know me. How can u make such a stab in the dark idiotic comment like that when u don't know a thing about me??? I used to be a cleaner before they got rid of them. and I have a good job now, I'm sure it's better than whatever assembly job you're on. Dam.... littlecountry you got`em hook, line and sinker I can remember back before you were littlecountry you used to put together some great shit that had a few out here going at you hot and heavy, then you would flip and they would go after each other.... You da man littlecountry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmsford Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 Dam.... littlecountry you got`em hook, line and sinker I can remember back before you were littlecountry you used to put together some great shit that had a few out here going at you hot and heavy, then you would flip and they would go after each other.... You da man littlecountry Littlecountry, littlepecker. It doesn't matter what his Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmsford Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 Dam.... littlecountry you got`em hook, line and sinker I can remember back before you were littlecountry you used to put together some great shnthat had a few out here going at you hot and heavy, then you would flip and they would go after each other.... You da man littlecountry Littlecountry, littlepecker, it makes no difference what his screen name is. He always has been and always will be the same illiterate shit talker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatso Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 Lets just STRIKE the mother-fuckers and get it over with.Maybe we could then form a good union one that doesn't tell me I have to work 12 hours mandatory or quit if I don't like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 Maybe we could then form a good union one that doesn't tell me I have to work 12 hours mandatory or quit if I don't like it. I don't think there is anything stopping you from doing that right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RougeWelder Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 When it comes to plants that have been shut down and outsourced there's not a whole hell of a lot that can be done about it, ford doesn't want to make them parts anymore so they got rid of the work. When it comes to cleaners etc. etc. jobs working in your plant that we used to do but Ford is trying to save a few dollars by hiring an outside company to do it now, that's a whole different story in my book. These are jobs that IUAW could possibly do something about getting them back, closed plants they don't have a chance of getting that work back. A few years back Ford outsourced our Hilo drivers but it didn't last long and we got them jobs back. This is just my opinion, if u don't agree I couldn't care less Hmmm....paying $28/hr to a high seniority cleaner who doesn't clean vs $28/hr to a parts assembler who must assemble parts for Ford vehicles??? Just "my" opinion but replacing the hard working assembly worker bothers me much more than re-assigning a do nothing cleaner. Cleaners did not lose their jobs, they just got re-assigned. I also could care less if you disagree with me but paying a janitor an assemblers wage and who does not clean is a waste of money. If you respond by telling me how hard Ford cleaners used to work, I will know you did not work at Ford during that time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfan Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 IMHO, the only way for Third Tier to work would to designate a facility by the "value added" it provides to the company's bottom line. For example if Ford were to bring back in house trim, plastics, etc., that would be considered a Tier 3 plant that would pay wages comparable to the suppliers. The caveat would be that workers who start there and display a good work record would have first dibs as openings occurred in present Ford plants. If Ford were to agree to bring work in from Mexico, Spain, or other lower-wage countries and open a new plant in the US (such as the production of the Fiesta and Transit Connect or other low-profit-margin vehicles) that plant could be designated a permanent Tier 2 plant and again as workers gain seniority, they can transfer to the present Ford plants (a similar scenario has been worked out at the GM Orion plant). The key thing is opening new facilities and creating jobs. In reality, I think the final analysis will be the elimination of the tier two wage system this contract. What I think will happen will be a phase-in of a one-tier system, with those being hired under the Tier 2 reaching parity after ten years on the job (similar to the 1990s where new hires earned 70 percent of the top wage and earned 100 percent after three years). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dayshift Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 (edited) Footballfan said: In reality, I think the final analysis will be the elimination of the tier two wage system this contract. What I think will happen will be a phase-in of a one-tier system, with those being hired under the Tier 2 reaching parity after ten years on the job (similar to the 1990s where new hires earned 70 percent of the top wage and earned 100 percent after three years). I agree with footballfan but I suspect its easier said than done. Let me also remind everyone that Tier 2 will never really be gone because the new hires will never get a pension. Even if they make it to full pay at some point they won't truely be equal because they don't get a pension. I hope they never get a chance to vote on the future of my pension. Edited April 7, 2015 by Dayshift Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmsford Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Hmmm....paying $28/hr to a high seniority cleaner who doesn't clean vs $28/hr to a parts assembler who must assemble parts for Ford vehicles??? Just "my" opinion but replacing the hard working assembly worker bothers me much more than re-assigning a do nothing cleaner. Cleaners did not lose their jobs, they just got re-assigned. I also could care less if you disagree with me but paying a janitor an assemblers wage and who does not clean is a waste of money. If you respond by telling me how hard Ford cleaners used to work, I will know you did not work at Ford during that time. Obviously it's a much bigger deal when Ford closes plants and moves the work overseas. But the point I am trying to make is it will be a lot easier to get the cleaners and some other in plant jobs that are currently outsourced back, than it would be to get Ford to bring back a whole product line and re-open a closed plant. I understand that cleaners had easy jobs and some didn't do a whole lot of work. I don't know how it is at your plant but where I work there are a lot more jobs where people don't really do much work. If they got rid of every good/easy job we would be seeing 1000's of people laid off. Negotiating to get these jobs back is a fight the UAW could possibly win and any jobs brought back to ford is better than nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lastmanstanding Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 (edited) Get ready for Tier 3...... Big money to be made by the companies and more "dues" for the UAW........$10 - $15 an hour http://www.wsj.com/articles/uaw-car-makers-weigh-new-class-of-hires-1431301465 Here's a video.............. http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/news/automakers-and-uaw-may-be-working-on-a-plan-for-a-new-class-of-hires/vi-BBjBjq3 Edited May 11, 2015 by lastmanstanding 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Get ready for Tier 3...... Big money to be made by the companies and more "dues" for the UAW........$10 - $15 an hour http://www.wsj.com/articles/uaw-car-makers-weigh-new-class-of-hires-1431301465 Here's a video.............. http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/news/automakers-and-uaw-may-be-working-on-a-plan-for-a-new-class-of-hires/vi-BBjBjq3 The big winner will be the UAW, not the car companies. From a worker perspective, with the push across the nation for increasing minimum wage, $10-$15/hour MINUS union dues is not that big of a deal. From the companies perspective, more union employees means more chances to for strikes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlecountry Posted May 12, 2015 Author Share Posted May 12, 2015 (edited) UAW does not have interest in its members anymore! It's all about quantity now, they have learned from Ford, quantity is what matters! Edited May 13, 2015 by littlecountry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lastmanstanding Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 The big winner will be the UAW, not the car companies. From a worker perspective, with the push across the nation for increasing minimum wage, $10-$15/hour MINUS union dues is not that big of a deal. From the companies perspective, more union employees means more chances to for strikes. Bringing more work in house by hiring thousands of new and inexpensive workers would allow auto companies to shave tens of millions of dollars off logistics costs and boosting vehicle quality by catching potential problems earlier. Big money saved. The Union gets more workers to pay dues, and will it be harder to close the pay gap for tier 2, when you now have tier 3? Will tier 3 "work" their way up to tier 2, then up from there? Membership growth at the expense of wages. Do we want to go there again? Next............. A "buy down" of your hourly rate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glow Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 Bringing more work in house by hiring thousands of new and inexpensive workers would allow auto companies to shave tens of millions of dollars off logistics costs and boosting vehicle quality by catching potential problems earlier. Big money saved. The Union gets more workers to pay dues, and will it be harder to close the pay gap for tier 2, when you now have tier 3? Will tier 3 "work" their way up to tier 2, then up from there? Membership growth at the expense of wages. Do we want to go there again? Next............. A "buy down" of your hourly rate? Lastmanstanding........You hit the nail on the head! A "Buy down" of your hourly rate. This was the orginial conversation back when the contract passed to institute the tier 2 workers. This is also one of the reasons why a layoff is happening in my opionion, who can afford to buy a new car with tier 2 wages? Even with the recently cheap gas, layoffs are in the making. MI's high ass'd car insurance and Sneaky Snyders no plan to fix the roads. You would think the IUAW would be raising holly heck about these issues. ......btw, look at the "setup" for when the tier 2 and 3 to becomes the "majority"........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lastmanstanding Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 Lastmanstanding........You hit the nail on the head! A "Buy down" of your hourly rate. This was the orginial conversation back when the contract passed to institute the tier 2 workers. This is also one of the reasons why a layoff is happening in my opionion, who can afford to buy a new car with tier 2 wages? Even with the recently cheap gas, layoffs are in the making. MI's high ass'd car insurance and Sneaky Snyders no plan to fix the roads. You would think the IUAW would be raising holly heck about these issues. ......btw, look at the "setup" for when the tier 2 and 3 to becomes the "majority"........ I think you could do it now. If you offer a "Buy Down" of $10,000 or $20,000 for legacy employees to lower their wage $2.00 an hour, and at the same time offer the rest a $1.00 an hour raise, that would pass. Many legacy people would take the money, plus signing bonus, and retire. And "the tiers" would take the raise, plus signing bonus.......... Now the company would have a lower wage and it lasts forever. You never get it back. The "next contract" would never get you back to this point, because they will never give you a $2.00 raise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axle72 Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 No way would that pass!! Last thing anyone is gonna take is less $$$ per hour when we haven't had a wage increase since 2004 & 10-20k ain't shit anyhow after taxes/unions slice ur talking 6-12k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lastmanstanding Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 No way would that pass!! Last thing anyone is gonna take is less $$$ per hour when we haven't had a wage increase since 2004 & 10-20k ain't shit anyhow after taxes/unions slice ur talking 6-12k The people "taking the cut" won't pass it, but the people that will retire and the "tiered" people will........ and whoever has the majority....... wins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 The people "taking the cut" won't pass it, but the people that will retire and the "tiered" people will........ and whoever has the majority....... winswhy would people retire pass that? Sure they are on their way out but they know what's been going on the past 2 contracts as well as anybody else. You also underestimate the 2nd tier. Sure, many of them are selfish fuckwads, but a majority of them care enough about others to vote that down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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