Wolf Island Diver Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 As some might notice from past posts, we are on our second 2013 Escape. The first one leaked from day one, so we took it back before the check cleared. The second one hasn't had the leak, but it has had seemingly every other problem with the exception of all the 1.6 L related issues (ours has the 2.0). Early in our ownership we took it to the dealership a four page document detailing the issues. The dealership was either "unable to duplicate" any of them or stated that they were normal functions of the car. These included the exhaust popping, suspension creaking, engine/exhaust smell in the cabin among others. It’s frustrating because all of the problems we complained about now have TSB's associated with them, or are common knowledge, but our car is past its warranty. This, I guess, is the price for being first to buy a new model vehicle, so lesson learned. Also it almost goes without saying but MFT has never worked reliably in this car (crashes multiple times a day) yet the dealership has always refused to replace the hardware component that supposedly was granted an extended warranty by Ford. They always claim it’s a software issue, and the reliability of the system never gets any better with updates or reflashes. At least the car ran well, until now. Now we have finally gotten there. Whenever you put gas in it, the car starts and them immediately stalls. It takes multiple attempts to start it. Once it starts, it runs fine and starts and stops fine. It throws code P1450, which indicates excessive vacuum in the evaporative system. Now in most vehicles, including older escapes, this isn't a big deal. Its acuallty a common issue, and is a known issue for Fords. Usually this is caused by a bad purge solenoid, or simply a clogged/dirty evap canister or hoses. You can literally replace the entire system in this car for a couple hundred dollars in parts. On the escape there is actually a replaceable pre-filter for the canister, and you can usually take these things apart and clean them out. The problem is that Ford in its infinite wisdom decided to locate the evap box, filter, and vent solenoid in a place under the car that can only be reached by removing the entire rear subframe. This involves disconnecting and removing the rear brakes, suspension, drivetrain, and any wiring from the rear of the car. In the past evap canisters were often located under the hood and when they were located under the vehicle, they were accessible. This was a simple job I was hoping to do myself, but unfortunately, it cannot be done without a lift and an extended transmission jack, plus hours of teardown, brake work, etc. What's more, the factory service manual is easily the worst I have ever seen for any vehicle foreign or domestic. For example, the instructions for removing the evap purge solenoid consists only of a picture of the engine with no indication of where it is actually located, just blue highlighting for the myriad of hoses for the evap system. In perusing the manual in general, it is clear that very little engineering was done to establish actual procedures for troubleshooting, repairing or even removing or installing many of the components or systems in this car. I understand that there exists additional diagnostic manuals from manufacturers, so factory service manuals are not all inclusive. However, these additional manuals are often even more general or specific only to the procedures related to a diagnostic procedure, not specific to how a particular car comes apart or where components are located. This issue is probably not unique to Ford, but it also helps explain why dealerships seem to often resort to throwing parts at a problem, often with limited success. Dealership technicians are at the mercy of the quality of the manufacturer’s documentation and communication when dealing with increasingly complex products. Considering the relative newness of this vehicle, the poor quality of the manual (the instructions for removing the subframe mostly consist of vague pictures as well), and sheer depth of teardown required to perform even basic diagnostics on this system, I'm afraid for what will happen when I take it to the dealership next week and what it will cost. One last thing. This situation is made worse by another common Ford issue: the tendency for Ford to change part specs in mid-production multiple times. For the evap system it means that is it very hard to identify what parts actually fit this car. I have not been able, for example, to find the purge solenoid in any parts listing online that matches this car. Most places confuse it with the vent solenoid or located it in the wrong place. Also most places list multiple or conflicting purge canisters for this car. This isn't the kind of stuff you should have to think about when you buy a new car, but then again manufactures shouldn't design cars so that common repairs, which almost qualify as maintenance issues, require a partial teardown of the car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordtech1 Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 The purge valve is located in a hose assembly under the hood. It connects to intake in a couple places.where the inlet tube goes from air filter box to over top of engine, a small line with a green clip, follow that line all the way and you will find the valve. It is a pain to remove the clips to remove the assembly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Island Diver Posted March 11, 2015 Author Share Posted March 11, 2015 The purge valve is located in a hose assembly under the hood. It connects to intake in a couple places.where the inlet tube goes from air filter box to over top of engine, a small line with a green clip, follow that line all the way and you will find the valve. It is a pain to remove the clips to remove the assembly. Thanks for the response. When I looked at, I suspected that the component that was aft and below of the inlet tube was the probably the purge valve. It seems like a weird design, how it connects in multiple places, and the clips are also awful. I read the section in the manual where it tells you how to remove fuel system clips, but I know I still propably break half of them. I love Fords section describing the different types of arrows used in the manual. It screams "An Anal Retentive Engineer Who's Never Turned A Wrench Wrote This" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Island Diver Posted March 11, 2015 Author Share Posted March 11, 2015 Update: Today my wife was driving the car, taking our son to the baby sitters, when it cut off at an intersection. She managed to get it started but it bucked and surged violently, as she tried to get it off the road. She called our dealer, Priority Ford in Norfolk, Va. (formerly Freedom Ford), and told them the situation. They said they couldn't look at it and she would need to call back later and schedule an appointment for next week. Keep in mind, that at this point she believed the car to be undrivable and relayed that to them, but this kind of respond is par for the course for this dealership. She called me and I suggested she call another dealer close by (Bowditch Ford in Newport News.) They said they would squeeze it in today.She was able to get it started and drove it there without any more drama. They went through the diagnostic process and determined that the problem is exactly what I thought it was. The purge solenoid was stuck open. Failures of these purge solenoids apparently are a common problem ever since a redesign in 2009 (Although, this seems to have yet another design). This failure caused an over vacuum state in the evaporation system that sucked gasoline into the purge canister ruining it and causing the stalling problems. Also, as indicated by the service manual, because the canister is located where it is, they will have to remove the rear subframe, including suspension, driveline, brakes, etc., to replace it. All in all the price quoted to me by Bowditch is also what I suspected including the diagnostic, at approximately $700. All of this for a $26 part that commonly goes bad.My advice to anyone who's 2013/14 escape's check engine light come on, or experiences a stall after getting gas, is to stop driving the car immediately. You may be able to prevent damage to the purge canister and save yourself a very costly repair, by just getting the purge solenoid replaced. Although, its also possible that once you have experienced the first symptoms, its already too late, and you are going to need a canister (and $700) as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rscalzo Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 All in all the price quoted to me by Bowditch is also what I suspected including the diagnostic, at approximately $700. All of this for a $26 part that commonly goes bad. What am I missing? why is that not a warranty issue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Island Diver Posted March 14, 2015 Author Share Posted March 14, 2015 What am I missing? why is that not a warranty issue? The car is out of warranty. Also, to clarify I haven't been frustrated because this part went bad. It's a fairly common problem and solenoids like this could really go bad at any point. What is frustrating is the sheer number of issues with this car and in the case of this particular problem, it's the fact that Ford mounts the evaporative purge box in a place that requires extensive disassembly of the rear end of the car. This and the issues we've had with Priority Ford. To give everyone an update. We picked the car up on Thursday. The technician examined the evap box and decided he could get away with cleaning it out instead of replacement. He also replaced the purge solenoid. All in all it ended up costing less at $400. Most of that cost was the tear down to get to the vapor canister. I have a better idea of where the vapor purge valve is now thanks to some early responses clarifying the awful service manual. I also have the definitive part number for the valve. Next time I'll fix this myself hopefully soon enough to avoid contaminating the vapor box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escapism Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 Oh wow. Sorry to hear about all this. I've got 52,000 miles on mine. So now the reliability really starts to rear its ugly head. Could you share the part number? Maybe some pics showing the location? Any knowledge passed down is a godsend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digijay Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 Thanks for Info. If you could share the part number that would be great. I just got a code p1450 today. It's running fine so far but would rather nip it in the butt before it gets worse. I've got almost 100k on one of the first 2013 2.0s as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fitzpats Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Just had my 2013 Escape with the 2.0 throw this code. Would love to replace the valve on my own and avoid the high costs associated with the canister. Any help on part number would be great. Also, if you know of a non-OEM part, (Autozone, etc.) that would be great. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escapism Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Here is a listing on Amazon with the part number. Tasca parts has this part, but the suffix is an "H" I think. In the description on Tasca's site it sats the "H" version replaces the "D" version. http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00GHKBYMA?tag=viglink21535-20 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordktpworker Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 You only have to drop the rear subframe on awd vehicles to remove the canister. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.