Biker16 Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews/driven/1503-2015-ford-focus-titanium-hatchback-review/ Maybe the most important mental health upgrade to the 2015 Focus is the recalibrated six-speed dual-clutch automatic transmission. The mechanical efficiency of this Getrag-built automatic has been a key contributor to the ability of the Focus to reach 40 mpg, but its unpredictable clutch engagement and frequent cycling of gear ratios could make you crazy. New clutch material and some electronic reprogramming have made this transmission now behave more like a conventional automatic in stop-and-go traffic, and its more refined action makes the 2015 Focus much nicer to drive. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 Correct me if I'm wrong, but I do believe the transmission changes were done for the 2014 MY. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT90SC Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 The part number for the '15 clutch is the same part number for all other applications. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ibinubu12 Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 (edited) The part number for the '15 clutch is the same part number for all other applications. And the software? Edited March 5, 2015 by ibinubu12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT90SC Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 If the TCM software was drastically different I would be quite surprised. The hardware is all the same and the software has been updated many many times over the course of the DPoS6's life, both in production and service. I am fairly sure that the current service software is the same as the current production with minor changes for emissions certification between model years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted March 5, 2015 Author Share Posted March 5, 2015 Yet they think its new and improved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordtech1 Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 This is another situation I wish ford would let us know what's going on to remedy the issue. They are so secretive about everything. This is a larger than normal issue so what is being done to fix it. Just like the ptu problems. Are we just replacing the parts with the same or is there a change or plan of attack? As of late Ford does not care about explaining anything. Truthfully they don't really want to tell a technician how something works. They just want one to follow the pinpoint test, which is wrong a lot. Give us the information about these issues. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT90SC Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 ^^^ What he said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-S Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Until these Dual Clutch automatics can be proven as reliable as a standard AT, I would never own one. I realize manufacturers are trying everything possible to increase MPG ratings, but ultimately it can be at the expense of the car owner in the long run if reliability doesn't come along with it. And all it takes is a reliability problem like this one where there are a substantial number of problems to sour a customer on buying another Ford. But the worse part about all of this is the unsuspecting consumer who buys a DCA without realizing that it is not a traditional torque converter type of Automatic. If you look at the window sticker on a new Focus the transmission is described as a "6 Speed Automatic Transmission". Even I didn't know that the Focus had a DCA until it was discussed on these forums. Does anyone know what type of repair costs a consumer might face once these cars are past their warranty period? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 The only issue I've seen is with the dry clutches. The wet clutch versions don't seem to have this problem. Outside of that, these should be just as durable as a manual since they're just two 3 speed computer shifted manuals side by side with a computer managed clutch to swap between them. And given the bevy of problems with the 6F35 I wouldn't necessarily say it's any better, at least in early implementations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 I wouldn't say its necessarily the fault of the DCT used in the Focus/Fiesta, but rather a matter of it coming to market a year or two too soon. CAFE plays a major role in "sqeezing every MPG" out of a particular car. It's an issue my Dad has been howling about for years. I'm all for progress, but forcing it too fast leads to these kinds of problems because there's not enough time to do thurough testing. Again, it's not always a Ford exclusive issue, everyone has to deal with it, except for apparently certain European automakers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 In this case the clutch material/design is defective. They did apparently choose the dry clutch design over the wet clutch to eke out a bit more mpg. I think Ford got carried away with the "best mpg" mandate and made some bad decisions including the Fusion/C-Max fiasco. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 No doubt there were bad decisions made, but I refuse to believe that the added pressure of CAFE didn't contribute to that bad decision at all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
97svtgoin05gt Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 My opinion on this is that trans is severely design flawed. And those who harp about not having any problems will eventually have them. For Ford to come out and say we'll warranty this transmission for 7 years or 100k miles, that in itself to me screams "oh we may have screwed up a little". Having just taken a bath trading one of these beauties in, my advice, do not go near one AT ALL. The thing is flawed and you'll end up taking a bath. I didn't feel like getting a lawyer and starting that whole deal. My conversations with Ford customer service clearly indicated that they weren't interested at all in buying back the car. I was able to secure a healthy trade in (according to Kelly BB) from my dealer and decided to just be done with this thing once and for all. I now have a much higher payment and start a loan all over again but for me it will be worth it to get out of the DCT nightmare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 No doubt there were bad decisions made, but I refuse to believe that the added pressure of CAFE didn't contribute to that bad decision at all Oh that was the main driver for sure, but I don't think those decisions made the difference between being CAFE compliant or not. I think they got carried away with the mandate and pushed the envelope too far unnecessarily. E.g. - deciding to take advantage of a loophole in the EPA regs to use the Fusion hybrid and energi mpg for the C-Max when they clearly knew the C-Max tests were considerably lower. It all comes down to management and rewards. There were probably bonuses for meeting certain mpg targets so that became the primary consideration above integrity and reliability. It always comes back to money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 I had a problem with my DCT, therefore EVERY VEHICLE will have problems. FTFY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Oh that was the main driver for sure, but I don't think those decisions made the difference between being CAFE compliant or not. I think they got carried away with the mandate and pushed the envelope too far unnecessarily. E.g. - deciding to take advantage of a loophole in the EPA regs to use the Fusion hybrid and energi mpg for the C-Max when they clearly knew the C-Max tests were considerably lower. It all comes down to management and rewards. There were probably bonuses for meeting certain mpg targets so that became the primary consideration above integrity and reliability. It always comes back to money. Once again, you and I are in violent agreement! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-S Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 I wonder if the over abundance of 2014 models in dealer inventory is partially due to the transmission's reputation? You can get a smoking deal on these cars now but what about re-sale value? The combination of low prices on new 2014 models and problems with the DCA , may drive down future re-sale value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pictor Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 I just traded in my 2006 A4 convertible for 2015 A3 Conv. The CVT transmission used on the convertibles had problems historically that caused Audi to increase the warranty. The fact that I got 9 years of service out of the that transmission was miracle. I trade it in because I felt I was living on borrowed time with that thing The new one has 6 speed dual clutch transmission that has been for a while and should have the bugs worked out. By the way it is a wet clutch DSG. I doesn't seem to have any problems at low speed travel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted March 6, 2015 Author Share Posted March 6, 2015 i think the transition has a few architectural problems. Dry clutch design with very little margin for error mechanically and in software. Any contaminant on the disc causes failure. software has to be really really good to control for all the variables of a heat, wear, humidity, etc. eletro-mechanical clutch actuation: i'd imagine this was used to save weight, but the use of mechanical actuation vs hydraulic actuation makes the actuation of the clutch less smooth and precise. Gear span wasn't wide enough to make up for the lack of a torque converter: the vehicle feels sluggish on take off because unlike torque converter Automatic, that instantly multiplies Torque, Clutches cannot. Its heavy. that said the concept is sound, and works well once these issues are resolved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 i think the transition has a few architectural problems. Dry clutch design with very little margin for error mechanically and in software. Any contaminant on the disc causes failure. software has to be really really good to control for all the variables of a heat, wear, humidity, etc. eletro-mechanical clutch actuation: i'd imagine this was used to save weight, but the use of mechanical actuation vs hydraulic actuation makes the actuation of the clutch less smooth and precise. Gear span wasn't wide enough to make up for the lack of a torque converter: the vehicle feels sluggish on take off because unlike torque converter Automatic, that instantly multiplies Torque, Clutches cannot. Its heavy. that said the concept is sound, and works well once these issues are resolved. All great points, one question though. how much heavier is the DCT competed to a conventional automatic? That's one thing I haven't heard too much about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT90SC Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 The 4F27E was 180 lbs. The 6F35 is 189 lb. The DPoS6 is 168 lbs. The issue isn't with transaxle weight, its that the DPoS6 clutch's rotating weight is FAR higher than the torque convertor in either conventional transaxle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted March 7, 2015 Author Share Posted March 7, 2015 The 4F27E was 180 lbs. The 6F35 is 189 lb. The DPoS6 is 168 lbs. The issue isn't with transaxle weight, its that the DPoS6 clutch's rotating weight is FAR higher than the torque convertor in either conventional transaxle. The weight of the 7spd wet clutch replacement is 150bs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironhorse Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Love the updates on the '15 Focus. The remaining '14's have really good incentives. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blazerdude20 Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 The weight of the 7spd wet clutch replacement is 150bs. Is that a going into any Ford vehicles soon? Would be nice if the 2016 model could get it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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