Sbkeen Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 I posted this in ecoboost tech also, not sure which section is more appropriate? Hi everyone, I'm new to this forum but I'm not new to fords. In high school and early college I owned 5 different gm products, 3 Camaros and 2 firebirds. I traded my last camaro for a mustang and never drove a gm product again. Since then I've owned 4 mustangs (still have 3 of them in my garage including an amazing 2014 gt500) and I've owned 7 f150's...my daily driver is a 2013 ecoboost fx4 which I love. The ecoboost is an amazing engine that I would choose over any previous v8 that I've owned in those trucks, way more power than the 5.4. I have what may seem like a crazy idea but it's only crazy if it won't work. I want to buy a brand new 2015 mustang gt, pull the engine and drivetrain, and replace it with an awd 3.5 ecoboost drivetrain from a Ford Flex. I'm an engineer and I also went to school for auto mechanics long ago, I work with several mechanical and electrical engineers that are car addicts, I have the budget to do this, and I have found a flex awd turbo donor vehicle that I can buy right now to get started. I've done as much homework as I can without buying the vehicles, can anyone here give me any advice on accomplishing this? Will it fit? Can I make it work? I most concerned about the electrical side of this, I know I can get a stand alone computer for the ecoboost engine and I'm assuming this would work. However controlling the transmission is a different story and I'm not sure how to get this done. I plan on boosting the performance of the engine and beefing up the transmission to handle it, hopefully somewhere around 550-600hp to the wheels. Does anyone know what the limits of the engine and transmission are currently without heavy modification? What are my weak links? Thanks in advance for any help offered. I realize this is a big project but that's the kind of stuff we do, the challenge is all part of the fun. Plus how amazing would it be to own the first AWD 2015 mustang! Stephen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 I posted this in ecoboost tech also, not sure which section is more appropriate? Hi everyone, I'm new to this forum but I'm not new to fords. In high school and early college I owned 5 different gm products, 3 Camaros and 2 firebirds. I traded my last camaro for a mustang and never drove a gm product again. Since then I've owned 4 mustangs (still have 3 of them in my garage including an amazing 2014 gt500) and I've owned 7 f150's...my daily driver is a 2013 ecoboost fx4 which I love. The ecoboost is an amazing engine that I would choose over any previous v8 that I've owned in those trucks, way more power than the 5.4. I have what may seem like a crazy idea but it's only crazy if it won't work. I want to buy a brand new 2015 mustang gt, pull the engine and drivetrain, and replace it with an awd 3.5 ecoboost drivetrain from a Ford Flex. I'm an engineer and I also went to school for auto mechanics long ago, I work with several mechanical and electrical engineers that are car addicts, I have the budget to do this, and I have found a flex awd turbo donor vehicle that I can buy right now to get started. I've done as much homework as I can without buying the vehicles, can anyone here give me any advice on accomplishing this? Will it fit? Can I make it work? I most concerned about the electrical side of this, I know I can get a stand alone computer for the ecoboost engine and I'm assuming this would work. However controlling the transmission is a different story and I'm not sure how to get this done. I plan on boosting the performance of the engine and beefing up the transmission to handle it, hopefully somewhere around 550-600hp to the wheels. Does anyone know what the limits of the engine and transmission are currently without heavy modification? What are my weak links? Thanks in advance for any help offered. I realize this is a big project but that's the kind of stuff we do, the challenge is all part of the fun. Plus how amazing would it be to own the first AWD 2015 mustang! Stephen Wow, No clue but first thought is you are going to take an "east-west" powertrain and put it in a vehicle designed for a conventional "north-south RWD installation. good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 I think you overlooked the fact that the Flex 3.5L AWD system is transverse mounted. You'd have to bring the front drive shafts and possibly suspension and it would be hard to get the wheels lined up with the engine. You'd also kill the balance and make it nose heavy. Also that version of the 3.5L EB isn't all that powerful compared to the one in the Ford GT which was rebuilt from the ground up. The AWD system is tied into the ABS sensors and other sensors that you may not have like yaw and steering angle and trying to make them all work together will be difficult. That system is also a part time AWD system. For performance you'd want to be able to split the torque all the time or most of the time and you can't do that with the PTU - it will overheat. You'd be better off with a RWD 3.5L EB from the F150 re-tuned and left RWD. You don't need AWD on a mustang. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sbkeen Posted February 9, 2015 Author Share Posted February 9, 2015 I think you overlooked the fact that the Flex 3.5L AWD system is transverse mounted. You'd have to bring the front drive shafts and possibly suspension and it would be hard to get the wheels lined up with the engine. You'd also kill the balance and make it nose heavy. Also that version of the 3.5L EB isn't all that powerful compared to the one in the Ford GT which was rebuilt from the ground up. The AWD system is tied into the ABS sensors and other sensors that you may not have like yaw and steering angle and trying to make them all work together will be difficult. That system is also a part time AWD system. For performance you'd want to be able to split the torque all the time or most of the time and you can't do that with the PTU - it will overheat. You'd be better off with a RWD 3.5L EB from the F150 re-tuned and left RWD. You don't need AWD on a mustang. Thanks for the reply. Well if you rode in my gt500 you might reconsider not needing AWD on a mustang, need is a strong word anyways...of course no one needs an AWD mustang...want is the right word . My gt500 spins the tires at 70 mph when it's cooler than 65F, with AWD and the same amount of power I would have better acceleration. I definitely noticed the engine was transversely mounted, that was clear from my homework. I've looked and measured my Eco boost truck and my mustangs engine bay and it should fit. I have no desire to put an ecoboost 3.5 rwd in a mustang, that's not interesting enough to spend that kind of money on. I want to create something different and unique, something that hasn't been done yet. That's why this sounds like fun, if it's possible I'll do it. I'm reconsidering buying a new mustang for this. The flex I can buy is a 2010, although not as impressive maybe I should go with a 2010 mustang in the hopes that some things might plug and play together. I've also read that in 2011 ford changed to have more of a centralized control system and that it would be more difficult dealing with integrating electronics between the 2 drivetrains. Is there any way to beef up the PTU to keep it from overheating? Thanks again for the input! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 I don't think the flex system would handle much more than 350 lb/ft. In stock form the computer limits torque at lower rpm to prevent damage. At those power levels RWD would be just as good. The best option would be a 3.5L EB AWD from the 2015 Expedition - the engine is already facing the right direction and the drivetrain should be a lot beefier. The only issue might be the height of the engine relative to the front suspension with the Mustang being so much lower. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 (edited) As an engineer you should be familiar with the phrase, "We have been to the moon ! We can do anything, given enough time and money !!" Do you have unlimited amounts of both ?Whether you use a Flex or a Expedition as a donor vehicle, you will likely have to Mount the Mustang on a bed plate/frame chassis. Take multiple 3D measurements of key under hood suspension point Cut off the ENTIRE FRONT CLIP. Figure out how to put is back together !!! You need to watch all episodes of Project Binky (converting an original Mini into a 4WD using a Toyota Celica GT-Four as a donor). It was started in mid-2013. Admittedly, a lot of time was spent in rust repair. The last installment was December 2014 and they have a long way to go. Edited February 9, 2015 by theoldwizard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sbkeen Posted February 9, 2015 Author Share Posted February 9, 2015 I don't think the flex system would handle much more than 350 lb/ft. In stock form the computer limits torque at lower rpm to prevent damage. At those power levels RWD would be just as good. The best option would be a 3.5L EB AWD from the 2015 Expedition - the engine is already facing the right direction and the drivetrain should be a lot beefier. The only issue might be the height of the engine relative to the front suspension with the Mustang being so much lower. Thank you so much for the tip, I will consider the expedition for a donor instead for sure. I didn't know the expedition was AWD, I thought it would be 4wd. Very cool, I would much rather have the engine facing the correct direction. I've been dreaming about this for a year or so and an expedition never crossed my mind. I figured the flex could handle it, here is one with 600 wheel horsepower. I've seen videos of it drag racing and kicking ass online too. Hers a video of the dyno. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sbkeen Posted February 9, 2015 Author Share Posted February 9, 2015 As an engineer you should be familiar with the phrase, "We have been to the moon ! We can do anything, given enough time and money !!" Do you have unlimited amounts of both ? Whether you use a Flex or a Expedition as a donor vehicle, you will likely have to Mount the Mustang on a bed plate/frame chassis. Take multiple 3D measurements of key under hood suspension point Cut off the ENTIRE FRONT CLIP. Figure out how to put is back together !!! You need to watch all episodes of . It was started in mid-2013. Admittedly, a lot of time was spent in rust repair. The last installment was December 2014 and they have a long way to go. Lol, I get what your saying and I would agree it's a huge project. I've considered it might get stuck halfway through and may never finish (worst case scenario obviously). I have no idea why I make things so hard for myself but that's what makes my brain happy . I recently sold my company and I'm not in to Porsche or Ferraris, I love fords. My wife won't let me buy a Ford GT but she will let me work on stupid projects like this. I'll check out the video, thanks for posting the link. I just realized that if I go with the expeditin setup I can put a standard transmission behind it instead, this would allow me to use the ecoboost control unit that's supposed to be for sale in a couple months by ford racing. That means some of the really annoying electrical work would be kept to a minimum. Awesome! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Lol, I get what your saying and I would agree it's a huge project. I've considered it might get stuck halfway through and may never finish (worst case scenario obviously). I have no idea why I make things so hard for myself but that's what makes my brain happy . I recently sold my company and I'm not in to Porsche or Ferraris, I love fords. My wife won't let me buy a Ford GT but she will let me work on stupid projects like this. I'll check out the video, thanks for posting the link. I just realized that if I go with the expeditin setup I can put a standard transmission behind it instead, this would allow me to use the ecoboost control unit that's supposed to be for sale in a couple months by ford racing. That means some of the really annoying electrical work would be kept to a minimum. Awesome! You will probably have almost as much invested as if you bought a GT, and it won't be worth (nor have the collectible potential) what a GT will be. Oh well, sounds like a fun, if tasking, project. Enjoy, and make sure you keep us updated on your progress! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sbkeen Posted February 9, 2015 Author Share Posted February 9, 2015 You will probably have almost as much invested as if you bought a GT, and it won't be worth (nor have the collectible potential) what a GT will be. Oh well, sounds like a fun, if tasking, project. Enjoy, and make sure you keep us updated on your progress! It won't be that bad, my donor car was going to cost $500 and a 2010 6cyl mustang is about $15k, GT will probably be around $250k-300k. I guess it depends on what the labor is worth to do it, but that won't come out of the bank account. I checked on the expedition, it's only avaiable with ecoboost in 2015. That's going to be hard to find a wrecked donor any time soon. I guess I'm back to eyeing this wrecked Flex again. I need to decide soon, the flex is big sold in a few days and those are very hard to find with the ecoboost AWD. I looked at nearly 70 of them and only one had the right drivetrain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 What about a wrecked F150 3.5L EB and just add the front driveline and tranny components from the Expedition? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 It won't be that bad, my donor car was going to cost $500 and a 2010 6cyl mustang is about $15k, GT will probably be around $250k-300k. I guess it depends on what the labor is worth to do it, but that won't come out of the bank account. I checked on the expedition, it's only avaiable with ecoboost in 2015. That's going to be hard to find a wrecked donor any time soon. I guess I'm back to eyeing this wrecked Flex again. I need to decide soon, the flex is big sold in a few days and those are very hard to find with the ecoboost AWD. I looked at nearly 70 of them and only one had the right drivetrain. You're getting the powertrain out of an AWD EB Flex for $500?! Dude, you should just buy that to sell it for a profit if nothing else! I was probably exaggerating a bit, but I was thinking the original '15 Mustang plus the donor and all the parts and time. But, if you are doing all the labor yourself, then that cuts out a small fortune. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 What about a wrecked F150 3.5L EB and just add the front driveline and tranny components from the Expedition? What's wrong with just using a wrecked F150? Why would you need anything out of an Expy? Some F150's come with the 'Auto' (AWD) setting on the t-case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 If the F150 supports full time AWD then that would be good. For some reason I didn't think it did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sbkeen Posted February 9, 2015 Author Share Posted February 9, 2015 What's wrong with just using a wrecked F150? Why would you need anything out of an Expy? Some F150's come with the 'Auto' (AWD) setting on the t-case. That would be great actually, I didn't know that either. It must only be on some trucks, my 2013 EB fx4 is only 4x4 high or low. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 That would be great actually, I didn't know that either. It must only be on some trucks, my 2013 EB fx4 is only 4x4 high or low. My dad's '13 Lariat has the 'auto' feature. Another option, source the EB and tranny from an F150, t-case from an Expy (which has auto) if you can't find the 'auto' t-case from an F150. Keep in mind that t-case is going to be pretty big and hard to fit under the floor of a Stang. Don't forget to beef up the suspension for the additional weight of the 4x4 components. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 It's available on 2015 Lariat, King Ranch and Platinum trims only (Automatic 4WD). Not sure about previous models. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schpark Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 I don't think the flex system would handle much more than 350 lb/ft. In stock form the computer limits torque at lower rpm to prevent damage. At those power levels RWD would be just as good. The best option would be a 3.5L EB AWD from the 2015 Expedition - the engine is already facing the right direction and the drivetrain should be a lot beefier. The only issue might be the height of the engine relative to the front suspension with the Mustang being so much lower. Go here to see how they got to 600 HP on an AWD Ecoboost Flex. I think they may have found the limit for the transmission giving out but it has been a while since I read through this. http://www.fordflex.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=10881 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Go here to see how they got to 600 HP on an AWD Ecoboost Flex. I think they may have found the limit for the transmission giving out but it has been a while since I read through this. http://www.fordflex.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=10881 All that says is they did a few dyno runs. Nothing about actually driving it with that much power over several months. I'd be really surprised if the tranny held up. There is a reason they limit the torque to 350 lb/ft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sbkeen Posted February 11, 2015 Author Share Posted February 11, 2015 I think I'm going to buy a wrecked/salvaged 2010 mustang, hit in the front, to try this swap. I found a nice car that I'm going to bid on, it's only slightly smashed. I thought to do this for a couple reasons, one if this is an epic fail I didn't waste anything but time since I can part the vehicles out for most of the money. Also if I have the front end pulled apart to repair damage, mainly the core support, it will be much easier to try and install the new drivetrain. I worked as a body technician for a few years when I was just out of school, I can handle a little front end damage repair I think. Looks like I'm going to have to pay more for the flex than $500, looks like $1,500 after its all said and done. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NLPRacing Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 Have you ever looked under the hood of a Fox or SN95 Mustang? The struts are pretty far back and there's a lot of front overhang like there would be in a FWD car. I had an 83 Mustang with a 3.8L V6 when I was in high school and there was almost enough room between the engine & radiator for me to stand there. I wonder if there would be enough room under the hood of one of these to adapt the Flex EcoBoost driveline & front suspension and then install an IRS rear end from an 03/04 Cobra with gears to match. The 2005 and newer Mustangs have the struts sitting much more forward, which looks nicer, but I bet would be harder to adapt an axle to. Just a thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schpark Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 All that says is they did a few dyno runs. Nothing about actually driving it with that much power over several months. I'd be really surprised if the tranny held up. There is a reason they limit the torque to 350 lb/ft. I didn't have time to look through the whole site but I remembered (probably a different thread) them talking about eventually ruining the transmission. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sbkeen Posted February 12, 2015 Author Share Posted February 12, 2015 (edited) Have you ever looked under the hood of a Fox or SN95 Mustang? The struts are pretty far back and there's a lot of front overhang like there would be in a FWD car. I had an 83 Mustang with a 3.8L V6 when I was in high school and there was almost enough room between the engine & radiator for me to stand there. I wonder if there would be enough room under the hood of one of these to adapt the Flex EcoBoost driveline & front suspension and then install an IRS rear end from an 03/04 Cobra with gears to match. The 2005 and newer Mustangs have the struts sitting much more forward, which looks nicer, but I bet would be harder to adapt an axle to. Just a thought.That's a great point, this is why I wanted to post this to discuss! I need to think about that, fortunately I have a 97 and an 04 so I could at least do some measuring and check it out. What I'm most concerned about is getting the electronics working, I'm hoping if I can fit this ecoboost in a mustang from the same year maybe I would have some things work together. I've read online that its a nightmare to put this in an older vehicle. The flex I was bidding on dissapeard last night from the auction, not really sure what happened. It had 2 days left with only one other bid, then it disappeared? I have no explanation. Fortunately another one with an ecoboost showed up only an hour from me, that would be handy. Edited February 15, 2015 by Sbkeen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sbkeen Posted February 12, 2015 Author Share Posted February 12, 2015 I didn't have time to look through the whole site but I remembered (probably a different thread) them talking about eventually ruining the transmission. I'm not surprised at all, that's lots of torque for a stock tranny. I've been thinking about it and I don't want to create too many problems for myself at once. I'm going to try and install the stock ecoboost first, the goal would be making it operate properly and put some miles on it (hopefully) then start tinkering with the motor and tranny. Surely I can have the tranny rebuilt with better parts so it will hold up, there is a site out there with performance parts for this tranny. I'm mostly concerned about the PTU, I doubt you can do much to it to beef it up. I may just do some conservative mods and call it a day, assuming I can get it running. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShoBoat Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 All that says is they did a few dyno runs. Nothing about actually driving it with that much power over several months. I'd be really surprised if the tranny held up. There is a reason they limit the torque to 350 lb/ft. They handle much more than 350 ft/lb of torque. I have a 2013 SHO with the performance package with the PTU cooling and other bits guys have over 500 whp and the drive line is holing up well. http://youtu.be/EyNCsuWg_Aw Still the front drive biased AWD in a Mustang? Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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