Footballfan Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Since Lincoln is supposedly coming out with a new platform and several RWD vehicles off of it is it time for Lincoln to have its own plant? It need not be a 300,000 unit a year monstrosity, but something like a larger Corvette plant with capacity around 125,000 units a year. Customers could come and watch their car being built and perhaps there could be a Lincoln museum. Sounds farfetched, but if Lincoln is serious about being a player in the luxury market again, this may be one of the places to start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 I'm not seeing the pluses of having a separate factory for Lincoln. I can't see the investment worthwhile. I think you can say that Lincoln with it's separate studios and becoming more of a separate entity the CoE concept is already in effect. Ford has a museum which should have Lincoln present do they not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Very few luxury buyers care about that. Certainly not enough to justify that expense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nruggiero Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 It's an excellent but very expensive marketing strategy, but it's necessary if you're building bespoke, handcrafted vehicles. I'd rather see Lincoln be more aggressive (if possible) about improving their awful dealer network in the US. Lincoln obviously did not have the opportunity to start fresh, so it will be interesting to see how their plan works out. I personally believe Ford should have discontinued Lincoln right around the same time they dismantled PAG. It's much easier starting a luxury brand from scratch, rather than working with a dysfunctional mess. 1. Discontinue Lincoln-Mercury. 2. Replace Lincoln-Mercury with Platinum & Titanium Fords. 3. Revive Lincoln later on after Ford gets healthy and strong. 4. Start fresh with an all-new, five star dealer network targeted at the world's wealthiest markets. 5. Start off with signature, image building products (Continental and Mark IX) to showcase the brand's DNA. 6. New Navigator. 7. New Aviator. 8. New midsize sedan. 9. New midsize crossover. 10. New compact sedan. 11. New compact crossover. 12. Niche vehicles (if necessary). Woulda. Coulda. Shoulda. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 They've been improving the dealers for the last several years. You can't force dealers to do it and trying to find enough new franchises to start a new brand is difficult and would take years. There is nothing wrong with Lincoln that good products won't fix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nruggiero Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 (edited) They've been improving the dealers for the last several years. You can't force dealers to do it and trying to find enough new franchises to start a new brand is difficult and would take years. There is nothing wrong with Lincoln that good products won't fix. Finding new franchises is easy when you have a very unique plan. It's obvious Lincoln still hasn't found its niche. So far, they added a "democratic" bespoke program and upscale sound systems. That's somewhat unique, but it's grasping at straws. It wouldn't take much work for Mercedes to expand their Designo program and upgrade their sound systems. I personally don't see Detroit luxury making a return, anyway. Both brands want to take the derivative route. They're either afraid of being creative or they just simply cannot come up with new ideas that will stand out in today's luxury automobile market. Even bringing all of those great things they did in the 20th century into 21st century won't work. Lexus is known for their excellent customer service. Mercedes-Benz is known for their seductive sedans and roadsters. BMW is known for their ultimate driving machines. Cadillac? Lincoln? What can they do to make themselves famous for the 21st century? Edited January 28, 2015 by nruggiero Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoveTaurus Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Lexus is known for their excellent customer service. Mercedes-Benz is known for their seductive sedans and roadsters. BMW is known for their ultimate driving machines. Cadillac? Lincoln? What can they do to make themselves famous for the 21st century? Isn't Lexus known for craftsmanship and reliability? Wasn't there an award for Lincoln's customer service, I barely remember? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nruggiero Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 (edited) Isn't Lexus known for craftsmanship and reliability? Wasn't there an award for Lincoln's customer service, I barely remember? You could say both. Lincoln won a reliability award five years ago. Edited January 28, 2015 by nruggiero Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Finding new franchises is easy when you have a very unique plan. It's obvious Lincoln still hasn't found its niche. So far, they added a "democratic" bespoke program and upscale sound systems. That's somewhat unique, but it's grasping at straws. It wouldn't take much work for Mercedes to expand their Designo program and upgrade their sound systems. I personally don't see Detroit luxury making a return, anyway. Both brands want to take the derivative route. They're either afraid of being creative or they just simply cannot come up with new ideas that will stand out in today's luxury automobile market. Even bringing all of those great things they did in the 20th century into 21st century won't work. Lexus is known for their excellent customer service. Mercedes-Benz is known for their seductive sedans and roadsters. BMW is known for their ultimate driving machines. Cadillac? Lincoln? What can they do to make themselves famous for the 21st century? You do realize that Lincoln is only just starting on its revitalization plan, right? They started putting the pieces into place with dealership upgrades. The new showrooms are Lexus like and they're supposed to offer Lexus like service and amenities. It will take several more years to get those in place at most dealerships. But it is happening. That, along with black label customizations and high end features like the Revel audio will go a long long way to establish credibility as a luxury brand. The priority is crossovers and utilities - that's where the volume and growth are right now. They should have a solid lineup with an upgraded MKZ, MKC, MKX, MKS/Continental, Aviator and Navigator in a couple more years. Then they can go for more niche vehicles like smaller sedans, sporty coupes, sedans and convertibles and other high performance vehicles. It doesn't make any business sense whatsoever to go after the sexy but high cost/low volume high performance stuff until you get the basics covered. And Ford is apparently doing this while turning a small profit, as opposed to Cadillac where they're mortgaged to the hilt paying for multiple new low volume platforms and low volume vehicles they can't sell without big incentives. It's a marathon, not a sprint and Lincoln is the tortoise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertlane Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Since Lincoln is supposedly coming out with a new platform and several RWD vehicles off of it is it time for Lincoln to have its own plant? It need not be a 300,000 unit a year monstrosity, but something like a larger Corvette plant with capacity around 125,000 units a year. Customers could come and watch their car being built and perhaps there could be a Lincoln museum. Sounds farfetched, but if Lincoln is serious about being a player in the luxury market again, this may be one of the places to start. I have personally heard that there's a desire to move more Lincoln production to Michigan. I don't know how that would work if they are pairing up: Escape/MKC, Edge/MKX, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 I have personally heard that there's a desire to move more Lincoln production to Michigan. I don't know how that would work if they are pairing up: Escape/MKC, Edge/MKX, etc. The rumor going around here, and picking up steam on the floor at MAP is that there is a Lincoln varient of the Focus coming in the next 2-3 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nruggiero Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 You do realize that Lincoln is only just starting on its revitalization plan, right? They started putting the pieces into place with dealership upgrades. The new showrooms are Lexus like and they're supposed to offer Lexus like service and amenities. It will take several more years to get those in place at most dealerships. But it is happening. That, along with black label customizations and high end features like the Revel audio will go a long long way to establish credibility as a luxury brand. The priority is crossovers and utilities - that's where the volume and growth are right now. They should have a solid lineup with an upgraded MKZ, MKC, MKX, MKS/Continental, Aviator and Navigator in a couple more years. Then they can go for more niche vehicles like smaller sedans, sporty coupes, sedans and convertibles and other high performance vehicles. It doesn't make any business sense whatsoever to go after the sexy but high cost/low volume high performance stuff until you get the basics covered. And Ford is apparently doing this while turning a small profit, as opposed to Cadillac where they're mortgaged to the hilt paying for multiple new low volume platforms and low volume vehicles they can't sell without big incentives. It's a marathon, not a sprint and Lincoln is the tortoise. It will take a very long time to transform their dealer network into Lexus'. Most Lincoln dealers are under the same roof as Ford, and I don't see that changing anytime soon. The Baton Rouge dealership sells Lincolns under one roof, but the Ford and Lincoln showrooms are separate. Lincoln's dealer network will definitely be better than what it was before, but it will not be as good as Lexus'. I doubt Lincoln will ever be a Tier 1 luxury brand. I think the safest and sound thing to with Lincoln is to keep positioning it as a value brand for Ford customers. It's possible they have no plans to actually play in the Tier 1 category, anyway. Their plan is perfect if that's the case. Like I said, if you want be a Tier 1 player, you must have a very unique, strategic plan put forward otherwise you're wasting a lot of money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Most Lincoln dealers are under the same roof as Ford, and I don't see that changing anytime soon. It is changing already. Over 80% of existing dealers have agreed to upgrade with a separate showroom and some are already in place. It won't happen overnight but it's been underway for over 3 years already and they are definitely shooting for a tier 1 experience down to which cheese to offer and which scents to use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nruggiero Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 It is changing already. Over 80% of existing dealers have agreed to upgrade with a separate showroom and some are already in place. It won't happen overnight but it's been underway for over 3 years already and they are definitely shooting for a tier 1 experience down to which cheese to offer and which scents to use. Cheese? That's interesting. A dealer 35 miles north of me is a standalone dealer but also sells Subaru under the same roof. They haven't upgraded their showroom yet. I guess they're going to have to build a new showroom. New Orleans currently does not have place to buy Lincolns. They should probably relocate to New Orleans or sell the franchise to somebody else. The town they're in is pretty small. There's not enough wealthy people in that area to support a fuller Lincoln. It will be interesting to see how it all goes. Even if it doesn't work out, at least they didn't bet the farm like GM did with Cadillac. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
probowler Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 If Dodge offered me the ability to come watch my dream car Dodge Viper be build, I'd be down there in a heartbeat........... Bronco+Trailer ready to take delivery I think it's a great idea.......but I akirby I doubt other people are that "in-touch" with their car buying experience Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 You'd get far more takers for mustang and f150 buyers than Lincolns. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 It's an excellent but very expensive marketing strategy, but it's necessary if you're building bespoke, handcrafted vehicles. I'd rather see Lincoln be more aggressive (if possible) about improving their awful dealer network in the US. Lincoln obviously did not have the opportunity to start fresh, so it will be interesting to see how their plan works out. I personally believe Ford should have discontinued Lincoln right around the same time they dismantled PAG. It's much easier starting a luxury brand from scratch, rather than working with a dysfunctional mess. 1. Discontinue Lincoln-Mercury. 2. Replace Lincoln-Mercury with Platinum & Titanium Fords. 3. Revive Lincoln later on after Ford gets healthy and strong. 4. Start fresh with an all-new, five star dealer network targeted at the world's wealthiest markets. 5. Start off with signature, image building products (Continental and Mark IX) to showcase the brand's DNA. 6. New Navigator. 7. New Aviator. 8. New midsize sedan. 9. New midsize crossover. 10. New compact sedan. 11. New compact crossover. 12. Niche vehicles (if necessary). Woulda. Coulda. Shoulda. I just don't understand your point about closing it only to restart the brand? That would've necessitated buying out the entire dealer network, which would've cost a fortune....and only to begin again in a few years, needing to spend another fortune to get new dealers set up? That doesn't make any sense. Instead of closing it, Ford simply put Lincoln on the back burner while they righted the ship with the Ford brand. Now that the Ford brand is healthy and stable (sure there are always areas of improvement, but as a whole, it's stable), they can bring Lincoln back into focus and devote more resources to it. They are literally doing everything on that list except the Lincoln part of #1 and #2, nor are they doing #3, so I'm not sure what your complaint is? A brand revitalization will take time, and I think we've already seen a vast improvement. The products are coming. Are they perfect? No - and I don't think anyone here would argue that; but they're a huge leap in the right direction. And we've seen improvement even since the product renaissance started. Look at MKZ compared to the MKC or X, especially on the interior with materials. As akirby said, Lincoln is taking the long approach to this, which I think will ultimately pay off. Mercedes, Audi, BMW, and Lexus didn't get where they are now overnight, so there's no reason to expect Lincoln to get there overnight. Give it time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exploder48 Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 I've read and re-read nruggerio's posts and cannot, for the life of me, understand how he could possiblly expect anybody to agree with his hypothesis. The best answer to this is that he obviously does not like Lincoln at all, would rather see another "luxury" vehicle and feels Ford misssed the boat by not killing the Lincoln brand. Those of us who are in the business have seen the growth in the Lincoln brand and the changing demographics of its customers. I have personally sold two Lincolns in the last month to mid-40's customers- customers who, in the past, would not even have been in the showroom, much less bought the vehicle. Does this not validate Ford's strategy of doing it slowly and correctly? Hopefully the negatards on this forum will try to understand business strategies and not make comments without knowing how these thngs work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Compare it with the throw it at the wall and see what sticks approach GM is doing with Caddilac right now and tell me which one is working out better. That should be all the validation anyone needs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steveottawa Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 (edited) AND high end features like the Revel audio will go a long long way Trust me that this is being ignored, but that this sound system will blow your mind. And, only Lincoln will have it. (In the Revel name at least). I know it sounds ridiculous, but the technology in this unit is the same used in the Ferrari FF ultra high end sound system. It's crazy good. Next Issue you stated "as opposed to Cadillac where they're mortgaged to the hilt paying for multiple new low volume platforms and low volume vehicles they can't sell without big incentives." That's the issue. They are NOT mortgaged. They have no pension liabilities and zero debt. Cadillac has more runway, a bigger bank account and a larger sales network with bigger dealerships and a "reputation"....good or bad. Lincoln has a long way to go before those 7 letters mean anything to the 30 something generation. The Ellen spoof helped more than anything! I'm sure that was planned too. Edited February 5, 2015 by Steveottawa 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steveottawa Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Over 80% of existing dealers have agreed to upgrade with a separate showroom and some are already in place. If they are not 2 miles + away from the Ford Dealer - with a different name entirely, it doesn't matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Next Issue you stated "as opposed to Cadillac where they're mortgaged to the hilt paying for multiple new low volume platforms and low volume vehicles they [/size]can't sell without big incentives."[/size] That's the issue. They are NOT mortgaged. They have no pension liabilities and zero debt. Cadillac has more runway, a bigger bank account and a larger sales network with bigger dealerships and a "reputation"....good or bad. I didn't mean mortgaged as in GM debt. I meant look at how much GM has invested in Cadillac with so many new bespoke platforms and low volume niche vehicles, not counting the $12B they say they're going to add to the kitty. Given tepid sales and big incentives it will take forever for Cadillac to get back in the black IF GM does the books properly and doesn't hide some of Cadillacs expense in other brands and programs. If they are not 2 miles + away from the Ford Dealer - with a different name entirely, it doesn't matter. Doesn't matter one bit if the showroom, cars and staff are first class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aneekr Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Ford has a museum which should have Lincoln present do they not? There is a museum located in south central Michigan that's devoted to Lincoln motor car heritage. Currently, that's the only thing meaningful about the Lincoln brand - history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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