AlRozzi Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 (edited) I say no. The market for '60s muscle cars is dead at least as far as dedicating an entire brand to such vehicles. Furthermore, GM sullied the Pontiac brand no more or no less than Dodge has been treated for far too long and GM had to come to grips with that in bankruptcy. Marchionne can't turn Dodge into Ferrari. http://www.autonews.com/article/20150127/BLOG06/301289994/can-dodge-rebuild-pontiac-excitement DETROIT -- General Motors CEO Mary Barra, at the recent Automotive News World Congress, said the company doesnt miss any of the brands that were discontinued during the companys 2008-09 bankruptcy ... But that doesnt mean displaced customers of two of the brands -- Hummer and Pontiac -- have nowhere to go. ---------- Looking at Jeeps staggering global growth and the worldwide explosion in popularity of SUVs and crossovers, you have to think a Hummer customers first choice would be a Jeep. (Dont forget the two brands shared the same basic seven-slot grille.) GM no longer has a dedicated brand of rugged off-road vehicles. But I see the biggest migration of GM customers to coming from Pontiac -- and going to Dodge. ----------- Dodges Grand Caravan minivan is about to join the midsize Avenger sedan in automotive history books. And by 2018, Kuniskis says, Dodge will have seven performance-oriented nameplates. -----YEAH, WELL FORD BRAND WILL HAVE 12 BY 2020- U.S. buyers have many performance vehicles from which to choose. -----EXACTLY- When you look at other performance models -- the Ford Focus ST, the Raptor, BMWs M series, Audis S and RS models -- none of those automakers dedicate a whole brand to performance, Sullivan says. There is a limited market for go-fast stuff. Look how many Accords, Camrys and Altimas sold last year. ----RIGHT. A DEDICATED, RELATIVELY VOLUMINOUS PERFORMANCE BRAND WILL NOT WORK.- Sergio Marchionne, CEO of Fiat Chrysler, is not known to have a lot of patience. But he may need it with Dodge. Says Sullivan: Its going to take a few product cycles, maybe 10 or 15 years, to fix memories of the Caliber and Journey. Edited January 27, 2015 by AlRozzi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Why would anyone want to replace Pontiac vehicles? There is a reason they were killed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Dodge is potentially on the way out as well, so.......................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Yeah, the shifting of Chrysler to be the mainstream brand and of Dodge to just "performance" vehicles to me ---not to mention, making Ram its own brand--- seems like a dragged out brand shutdown for Dodge. I mean, I take that to mean that Dodge won't be getting any crossovers or anything like that - is that true? That's where a huge chunk of the market is right now, and for them to not have anything there just seems like a bad decision. Unless they're going to have a "performance" CUV?? What other "performance" models could they have? Maybe some midsize sedan between Dart and Charger? I don't know... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
probowler Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 That sounds incredibly dumb, but whatever......as long as I can still buy a challenger or a Viper I don't care about their other vehicles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grbeck Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 (edited) Why would anyone want to replace Pontiac vehicles? There is a reason they were killed. If you believe the chatter on various websites (particularly gminsidenews.com), everybody remembers the Wide-Track 1959 models and original GTOs, so new editions will start a stampede to the dealerships. We'll ignore the fact that hardly anyone under the age of 45 remembers those cars today. Edited January 28, 2015 by grbeck 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertlane Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 I agree with Al. Dodge's future is predicated on performance vehicles only, which may not last in its current form forever. It also depends on what types of platforms it receives from the parent company. The crown jewel is the Jeep brand - Chrysler has dwindling their product nameplates too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 (edited) After Caravan dies, the only duplicate product in the range with Chrysler will be Charger. In the short term, there is probably enough product differentiation to keep the Charger alive but in the long run, the outlook for the large car market is negative and I don't think FCA will be able to justify two competing models in the same shrinking market. The one with international reach (Chrysler 300) will get to live. Without Charger, the is really nothing in the Dodge stable to "save". The rest of the line up is a veritable list of dead man walking: Dart - sales are below target and the economy recession in Europe killed off its European twin (Fiat Bravo replacement). Rumors of Chrysler 100 as the replacement seems more likely than not. Avenger - it is already gone, but the point should not be lost on anyone... you cannot be a volume brand in the US without a midsize sedan Challenger - this could easily become Chrysler 300 Challenger Viper - the fix was in before when it became SRT Viper but it is Dodge Viper again. Could easily be Chrysler Viper next. Journey - talk about dead man walking... old uncompetitive product with no replacement in sight. Chrysler is getting a CUV based on Jeep Cherokee next year and that will be the end of the journey ugh... for Journey. Durango - another dead man walking with Jeep Grand Wagoneer already confirmed as replacement. Edited January 28, 2015 by bzcat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Isn't the Durango effectively becoming the Grand Wagoneer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 Isn't the Durango effectively becoming the Grand Wagoneer? FCA will not rebadge the current Durango... so no. The plan is to just let the Durango ride out the sunset until the current generation expires and not replace it. A new model called Jeep Grand Wagoneer will come out in about 2 years based on the next generation Grand Cherokee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 (edited) Edited January 29, 2015 by Intrepidatious Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 FCA will not rebadge the current Durango... so no. The plan is to just let the Durango ride out the sunset until the current generation expires and not replace it. A new model called Jeep Grand Wagoneer will come out in about 2 years based on the next generation Grand Cherokee. I think that's what he meant 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 I think that's what he meant In not so many words yes. The project started out as the next gen Durango AFAIK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 Good chance the Durango actually stays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 (edited) But you need to read this chart in context with the others. If Jeep Grand Wagoneer comes out in 2018 model year (and new Grand Cherokee in 2017), while Durango just get a facelift, the writing is on the wall... isn't it? Similarly, if you look at the timing on some of the Chrysler models coming out, it's easy to see that some of the new Dodge may not happen. With Lancia being downsized to Italy only, it seems logical that Chrysler version will be paired with Fiat models instead of Dodge (e.g. Chrysler CUV becomes Fiat Freemont instead of Dodge Journey, Chrysler 100 becomes Fiat Viaggio/Ottimo instead of Dodge Dart etc.) Edited January 29, 2015 by bzcat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 All new Dodge Journey comes out next year. Durango would come out with / after Grand Cherokee (end of chart). These are basic guidelines, things have and will change. YMMV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PREMiERdrum Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 For the sake of the LX cars, I hope their product plan speeds up a bit. Yeesh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlRozzi Posted January 29, 2015 Author Share Posted January 29, 2015 The real issue is whether Marchionne's muscle car strategy for Dodge will be successful or not. Performance brands include Porsche, Ferrari, Aston Martin among others, where vitality exists in a high-price arena. I'm not saying Dodge as a brand will disappear, but how long will it be before FCA backtracks and decides Dodge needs to be a full-line, mainstream brand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grbeck Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 I'm not saying Dodge as a brand will disappear, but how long will it be before FCA backtracks and decides Dodge needs to be a full-line, mainstream brand? I thought that the Chrysler brand was supposed to carry that banner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 I thought that the Chrysler brand was supposed to carry that banner. Not with only 2 models Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 I thought that the Chrysler brand was supposed to carry that banner. Well, they are. but it just doesn't make sense. They need a lot more products for both brands to have a full line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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