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Guest Message by DevFuse

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F-Series Numbers = Holy $%@&!!!


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29 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   OHV 16V

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Posted 12 December 2014 - 03:24 PM

Ever wonder just how big the gap is between Ford and everyone else when it comes to trucks? If this data is indeed correct (or even close), then "fuhgettabouditt!"

 

http://truckyeah.jal.../ matthardigree


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#2 OFFLINE   RichardJensen

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Posted 12 December 2014 - 03:38 PM

Truecar numbers = unverifiable formulas applied to unreliable data packaged and sold as facts to a gullible public.


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#3 OFFLINE   Deanh

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Posted 12 December 2014 - 03:43 PM

sigh...yet another self proclaimed expert in the business.....I want to see THIS headline...." True car making X million dollars off the fear of a vehicle purchase"......................sub text....by doing 10 minutes of work giving a hypothetical number.....


" Sizzler "...and 412hp is all you'll ever see from this engine.I'd rather have potential. The 5.0 is the very definition of being at death's door with no place to go. "Mettech"....Privately owned dealerships is so 19th Century.....Richard So, Dean, you gonna pull my words from your sig?. Sully (reg new Escape) Clearly, the Escape/Kuga/Vertrek/Fail will not sell in the same volume as the Escape does currently

#4 OFFLINE   Kev-Mo

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Posted 12 December 2014 - 04:24 PM

 "Holy crap, pickup trucks are insanely expensive."

 

Yes indeed they are!


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#5 OFFLINE   Anthony

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Posted 12 December 2014 - 04:39 PM

Oh boy another Truecar thread.

 

oh-shi.gif


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#6 OFFLINE   fordmantpw

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Posted 12 December 2014 - 04:46 PM

ha ha ha!  POTW with that pic!  


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Future Vehicles
2020 Ford Explorer/Lincoln Aviator

Current Vehicles
'17 F350 Super Duty Crew Cab, Lariat, 4x4, 6.7L Diesel

'10 Mercury Milan

'09 Ford Flex Limited (wife's)

Past Vehicles
'08 F250 Super Duty Crew Cab, Lariat, 4x4, 6.4L Diesel
'05 Ford F150 XLT SuperCrew 4x4 5.4 - sold @53k, not a single problem
'03 Ford Escape XLT
(wife's) Traded at 75k for '09 Flex
'99 Ford F150 XLT Regular Cab 4x4 5.4 - Sold @136k, then totaled by the new owner on the way to its new home :(
'96 Chevrolet Cavalier (wife's - she brought it into the marriage)
'86 Ford Bronco II XLT 4x4 5 Speed 2.9L - what a dog, and it cracked heads like no tomorrow. 150k+ on 4 engines


#7 OFFLINE   LincolnV

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Posted 12 December 2014 - 05:46 PM

Truecar numbers = unverifiable formulas applied to unreliable data packaged and sold as facts to a gullible public.

 

But I believe it because it has the word "true" in the story.


Edited by LincolnV, 12 December 2014 - 05:47 PM.


#8 OFFLINE   Deanh

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Posted 12 December 2014 - 05:49 PM

@LincolnV...and its on the internet so it MUST be true.....


" Sizzler "...and 412hp is all you'll ever see from this engine.I'd rather have potential. The 5.0 is the very definition of being at death's door with no place to go. "Mettech"....Privately owned dealerships is so 19th Century.....Richard So, Dean, you gonna pull my words from your sig?. Sully (reg new Escape) Clearly, the Escape/Kuga/Vertrek/Fail will not sell in the same volume as the Escape does currently

#9 OFFLINE   papilgee4evaeva

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Posted 12 December 2014 - 09:01 PM

@LincolnV...and its on the internet so it MUST be true.....


And where did you hear that? The internet?


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CURRENT VEHICLES

2007 Infiniti M35x, 126k (mine)

2013 Ford Fusion Titanium, 55K (wife's)

2008 Dodge Grand Caravan SXT, 138K (because kids)

PREVIOUS VEHICLES

2005 Buick Rainier CXL V8, 166K (mine; sold)

1999 Nissan Maxima SE Limited, 188K (wife's; donated)

2001 Pontiac Bonneville SLE, 126K (the Cruise Missile; started getting gremlins, plus we outgrew it)

1996 Nissan Pathfinder SE 4WD, 111-160K+ (stupid odometer) (sold to make room for the Bonnie)
1995 Dodge Intrepid (wife's; almost everything that could go wrong did; towed away stealthily)

FUTURE VEHICLES?

Maybe a truck after some time...?


#10 OFFLINE   7Mary3

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Posted 12 December 2014 - 09:48 PM

I think the numbers are garbage, but total up all the GM K2XX models on the list (Silverado, Sierra, Tahoe, Suburban) and check that out.



#11 OFFLINE   RichardJensen

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Posted 13 December 2014 - 03:11 PM

I think the numbers are garbage, but total up all the GM K2XX models on the list (Silverado, Sierra, Tahoe, Suburban) and check that out.

 

And then reflect on the difference in margins and profits between Ford and GM.


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#12 OFFLINE   7Mary3

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Posted 13 December 2014 - 09:14 PM

Point taken.  But go ahead and reflect on the difference in margins and profits between Ford and TM.....

 

Amazing how the U.S. manufacturers make their money on relatively few light truck platforms in North America while Toyota seems to make money on everything, no matter where they sell it.



#13 OFFLINE   RichardJensen

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Posted 13 December 2014 - 10:35 PM

Point taken.  But go ahead and reflect on the difference in margins and profits between Ford and TM.....

 

Amazing how the U.S. manufacturers make their money on relatively few light truck platforms in North America while Toyota seems to make money on everything, no matter where they sell it.

 

Toyota's margins in NA aren't that great. Can't speak to ROW--I suspect Toyota's stronger presence in Asia is the biggest difference between them and Ford right now.


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#14 OFFLINE   Biker16

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Posted 15 December 2014 - 01:27 PM

 

Toyota's margins in NA aren't that great. Can't speak to ROW--I suspect Toyota's stronger presence in Asia is the biggest difference between them and Ford right now.

what are Toyota's margins? what is your source?


When did the forum ban horse-switching, goal-post-moving, and unrealistic and irrational posts?Md3ulw.gif <p>

Banned October 2016.

Go tribe!  

#15 OFFLINE   RichardJensen

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Posted 15 December 2014 - 01:53 PM

what are Toyota's margins? what is your source?

 

I have answered these questions elsewhere. I will not answer them again.

 

I leave it to you to contemplate your refusal to read my posts before responding to them.


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#16 OFFLINE   akirby

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Posted 15 December 2014 - 01:59 PM

2012 fiscal year - 3.0%

2013 fiscal year (ended march 2014) - 4.2%

 

http://www.autonews....u.s.-settlement

 

 

Ford 2013 - 9.9%

 

http://corporate.for...2013/index.html



2018 F150 Supercab XLT Sport (Magnetic) - 3.5LEB
2016 Lincoln MKX Reserve (Luxe/Cappucino)


#17 OFFLINE   RichardJensen

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Posted 15 December 2014 - 02:23 PM

Toyota is a publicly traded company and this is material information. It is *publicly* available.


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#18 OFFLINE   Anthony

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Posted 15 December 2014 - 04:01 PM

Ford (in their above linked report) defines Operating Margin as this at the beginning of the report:

 

 

Automotive operating margin is defined as Automotive pre-tax results, excluding special items and Other Automotive, divided by Automotive revenue.

 

I know Richard said the other day it was not wise to define margin using pre-tax / excluding special items (apparently Fiat did in their report?).  Or am I not remembering correctly?  (honestly I don't know!)  What is the "correct" way to report?

 

Thanks in advance.



#19 OFFLINE   RichardJensen

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Posted 15 December 2014 - 04:15 PM

pre-tax / excluding special items (apparently Fiat did in their report?).  Or am I not remembering correctly?

 

Actually, the problem was Fiat's focus on EBITDA which is earnings before income tax, depreciation and amortization, which are ordinary business expenses, not special items.

 

Also, Ford does not break down "Other Automotive" by geographic region--and to the best of my recollection, they never have.

 

You could quibble about their exclusion of special items from the operating margin, but they are at least consistent in doing so--they exclude gains as well as losses.


Edited by RichardJensen, 15 December 2014 - 04:18 PM.

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#20 OFFLINE   Anthony

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Posted 15 December 2014 - 04:25 PM

Thanks for explaining Richard.  I think I understand (emphasis on think).  So what would Ford's post tax  / special items margin be?  Or is that an unknown?  Does GM / Toyota  / etc calculate it the same way?  I look at all these reports and honestly don't know how to compare one to another.










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