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Does changing your own oil risk voiding Ford warranty?


Lscman

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I haven't bought a new car in the last decade, so warranty coverage is new to me. With a turbo motor I want to be sure my warranty is not voided due to lack of service evidence. I trust myself over the typical mechanic and grossly over-maintain my cars MYSELF so that's the last thing I want to happen.

 

How tough is Ford on backyard mechanics? Do you have to show receipts for everything if your motor fails? What about folks like me who buy oil and filters on sale and store them for future use? Will they question the dates of purchase and try to screw with me? I have bought 2-3 yrs worth of filters and oil in one store visit. My garage looks like AutoZone.

 

The reason I ask is because a good fellow I work with got totally screwed by Chrysler when his motor failed. They forced him to produce all receipts but he lost a couple. They voided his warranty and told him to get a lawyer.

 

thanks in advance

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If your engine fails and it's due to lack of lubrication then it usually won't matter whether you have receipts or not. A receipt doesn't prove what actuall went into the engine or when. I have not heard of Ford requiring receipts - it's usually obvious if the failure was due to poor maintenance. Others may have actual experiences to share. That said it certainly won't hurt to have receipts.

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0 effect on your warranty. Ford can't expect every customer to go to the dealer for oil changes.

Well.....I know it's not "zero effect" so you're obviously assuming that. I'm not taking the "hope for the best" approach. I'm trying to figure out what evidence is seen as "adequate" these days.

 

If your engine fails, Ford will not necessarily accept your "word" with blind/good faith, assuming you used the proper certified oil and followed the proper service interval. Ford can easily blame "service neglect" or "unapproved fluids" whenever a motor fails prematurely on a car that has not seen the dealer for routine work. It will be up to the owner to prove otherwise beyond a resonable doubt. I know the German auto mfrs now play hardball with customers who don't use the delaership for service by requiring ALL reciepts with few exceptions. Experience proves that Chrysler does that now too.

 

I realize that running the oil level low is far worse than missing an oil change or using the wrong oil, but hey, it's up to Ford whether they wish to play hardball with the customer. That sort of argument may not hold water when you're trying to get a $15K motor replaced under warranty.There are plenty of customers out there missing service intervals and relying upon morons at some quicky lube who installs a $2 filter and dumps the wrong oil in then proceed to cross-thread & strip the drain plug. There are other idiots who reset the oil monitor on lease & company cars or those being traded-in soon without performing any service.

 

I'm hoping reciepts for filters and oil are enough and wondering if reciepts for my "quantity purchases" will suffice since I visit the parts store months or years beforehand, when filters and specified oil is on sale, instead of when the oil change is actually being performed. As an example, I have 15 qts of 5W-30 and 2 motorcraft filters already on my shelf reserved for my 2.0L Turbo which has only 1500 miles. I hate making a special trip to buy 6 qts of oil and 1 filter at full retail price. I'd rather be changing oil instead of shopping.

Edited by Lscman
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Actually it's up to Ford to prove that the failure resulted from inadequate maintenance or improper parts/fluids. They cannot require you to use the dealer for service to maintain warranty unless the service is free. You're allowed to use any fluids that meet their specification.

 

I don't recall hearing Ford deny a warranty claim for a non lubrication related failure based on oil change receipts. They can tell based on the failure whether it was neglect or the wrong oil or whether it was a failed part. If it failed due to incorrect oil then receipts don't matter because what was on the receipt and what actually went into the engine are two different things. Jiffy lube may have used the wrong oil e.g.

 

Not saying it can't happen or hasn't happened but I don't recall hearing about it on a Ford. Then again engine failures today are so rare anyway and as long as you're changing the oil per the manual I wouldn't worry about it.

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One of the dealers we visited when shopping for our Fusion Hybrid told us that Ford is also cracking down on this and denying warranty claims. He said that it's important to have the oil changed at an ASE Certified shop and to save all those receipts. He said that Ford can't deny the warranty claim as long as you have receipts to prove that the oil was changed at an ASE certified shop.

 

The discussion came up because he was trying to convince us to buy from that dealer by promoting their program to give 12 free oil changes to customers with a new car purchase. I said that this wasn't much of a benefit to us since I prefer to change my own oil. That led him to launch into the "warning" that I should never change my own oil.

 

I guess I'll now have oil changed at a quick place like Jiffy Lube and save my receipts. With coupons you can get your oil changed at one of those places for about $25. In the past I could change the oil myself for $16-18 but now the auto parts stores have all raised their prices and the cheapest I've seen oil change specials recently is $19.99 + tax. For that price I guess I'll just let a Jiffy Lube et al shop.

 

I don't know if what he said is true or not, but it's what we were told.

Edited by hybridbear
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One of the dealers we visited when shopping for our Fusion Hybrid told us that Ford is also cracking down on this and denying warranty claims. He said that it's important to have the oil changed at an ASE Certified shop and to save all those receipts. He said that Ford can't deny the warranty claim as long as you have receipts to prove that the oil was changed at an ASE certified shop.

 

I don't think that's accurate - Ford can deny the warranty claim if the evidence points to not changing the oil or using the wrong oil, receipts or not. They may make an exception if the service was done by a Ford dealership but probably not for some other shop even if ASE certified. From what I've been told it's usually pretty clear once the engine is torn down whether it was due to the oil or some other problem.

 

The discussion came up because he was trying to convince us to buy from that dealer by promoting their program to give 12 free oil changes to customers with a new car purchase. I said that this wasn't much of a benefit to us since I prefer to change my own oil. That led him to launch into the "warning" that I should never change my own oil.

 

He was obviously trying to sell you on their service so I wouldn't necessarily believe any of that. Maybe some of our dealership employees will chime in to confirm.

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He was obviously trying to sell you on their service so I wouldn't necessarily believe any of that. Maybe some of our dealership employees will chime in to confirm.

 

Agreed!

 

And if you are going to pay $25 to have it changed, pay $5 more and have it done at the Ford dealership. Every 5th one is free if you use the Owner Advantage card. Works out well for me...3 oil changes on the Flex, 1 on the truck, and the 5th is free for the truck ($100 since it's diesel).

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One of the dealers we visited when shopping for our Fusion Hybrid told us that Ford is also cracking down on this and denying warranty claims. He said that it's important to have the oil changed at an ASE Certified shop and to save all those receipts. He said that Ford can't deny the warranty claim as long as you have receipts to prove that the oil was changed at an ASE certified shop.

He (or she) is lying. Read the Magnuson-Moss act. Akirby nailed it - the burden of proof is on Ford. The legislation was specifically written to protect the consumer from a manufacturer who would require service to maintain a warranty. Ford would have to prove the failure was due to lubrication failure. Years of owing VAG products (nobody tries to wiggle out of warranty than VAG) makes one familiar. Ford would have to prove you either did not change the oil or used an incorrect oil which caused the failure (& the failure wasn't due to some mechanical part such as the oil pump failing).

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson%E2%80%93Moss_Warranty_Act

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The Magnuson-Moss act does say that. The burden of proof DOES lie with Ford. BUT that is not how it works in the real world. In Ford's eyes (the issuer and fulfiller of your warranty), you are guilty until proven innocent. They do not 'take your word for it'. IF you disagree with their yea or nay on your repair, by the time you pay your lawyer to beat Ford, or any company automotive or otherwise, you will have paid more than the repairs would have cost you. Keep your receipts for timely services with correct products, use a reputable repair facility. That way when Ford denies the claim, you can go back to the repair entity for reimbursement. Akirby, FoMoCo squeezes dealers hard to keep warranty numbers down. Tie does not go to the runner, it goes to Ford. On a personal note, its interesting to me that people will spend >$30K on a car then squirm over a couple bucks in oil changes.

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I know Ford is stingy with warranty claims, but I have not heard of a case recently where an engine failed and Ford refused to cover it because the owner didn't have all their oil change receipts. Not saying it can't happen or doesn't happen, just that I don't remember it being reported here.

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The Magnuson-Moss act does say that. The burden of proof DOES lie with Ford. BUT that is not how it works in the real world. In Ford's eyes (the issuer and fulfiller of your warranty), you are guilty until proven innocent. They do not 'take your word for it'. IF you disagree with their yea or nay on your repair, by the time you pay your lawyer to beat Ford, or any company automotive or otherwise, you will have paid more than the repairs would have cost you. Keep your receipts for timely services with correct products, use a reputable repair facility. That way when Ford denies the claim, you can go back to the repair entity for reimbursement. Akirby, FoMoCo squeezes dealers hard to keep warranty numbers down. Tie does not go to the runner, it goes to Ford. On a personal note, its interesting to me that people will spend >$30K on a car then squirm over a couple bucks in oil changes.

Not nearly as dire as you make out, it's often cheaper to repair the vehicle than go through the court system. As I mentioned even the poster child of warranty weasels - Volkswagen (VAG) often pays up when pushed.............especially in the days of twitter, youtube, and other outlets.

 

And you're aware it may not be $$$ - I can't even count the number of times a dealer or other service center mucks up the job. One that springs to mind when I took my VW to a dealer. This is a car with a DSG (computer shifted manual) & they tell me they're going to "flush the torque convertor"...........um, ah, it doesn't have one........buh-bye now. And would anyone really think Goob-lube will use the correct oil? (if they even have it). It ain't dollars, it's knowing the job is done right.

 

I know Ford is stingy with warranty claims, but I have not heard of a case recently where an engine failed and Ford refused to cover it because the owner didn't have all their oil change receipts. Not saying it can't happen or doesn't happen, just that I don't remember it being reported here.

Yep, and to a certain extent it's cheaper than going to court.

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My primary concern is not about cost. It is more about oil quality, performance and vehicle lifecycle. The oil is what determines vehicle life long AFTER the warranty is expired. Virtually any $2 generic oil will get a modern car thru the "too-brief" warranty period. I need more than that because I don't trade-in every 5 yrs..

 

I prefer to use the BEST full synthetic premium national brand oils instead of Ford's minimum bid semi-synthetic product (which is intended to meet minimum specs only). Ford's semi-syn oils are about equivalent to Walmart's house brand semi-syn. I want no part of it in my $30K 4 cyl turbo car. If it was a lowly Crown Vic with V8 that putzes around at 1500RPM, maybe. I put $9/qt oil in my 2001 minivan. It uses no oil and runs same as new. I've been running full synthetic since 1980.

 

Motorcraft semi-syn oil absolutely does not favorably compare to the best 100% synthetics from Mobil or Castrol. My Dodge Caravan has 250K mi and my prior vehicles all exceeded 250K mi long before they rusted beyond repair from road salt and failed state safety inspections. My vehicles see end of life when I choose to turn the key off and retire them.

 

The typical automotive manufacturers are shooting for 150K mi and 7 year lifecycle. Aside fron this Fusion, the cars I drive and maintain are 15-35 yrs old. I beat mfr lifecycle goals by 2x to 5x. The parts dept wants no part of me because my cars last waaay too long..

 

Any engine can fail prematurely due to a defect and this is what creates concern in my mind.

Edited by Lscman
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And you're aware it may not be $$$ - I can't even count the number of times a dealer or other service center mucks up the job. One that springs to mind when I took my VW to a dealer. This is a car with a DSG (computer shifted manual) & they tell me they're going to "flush the torque convertor"...........um, ah, it doesn't have one........buh-bye now. And would anyone really think Goob-lube will use the correct oil? (if they even have it). It ain't dollars, it's knowing the job is done right.

This is why I like to change my own oil. The frequency of stories of oil changes being screwed up is way too high. Many Fusion Hybrid owners have reported that the dealer screws up their oil changes because they confuse the 2.0L Hybrid with the 2.0L turbo and put too much oil in. This is why I'd prefer to change oil myself rather than even let the dealer do it.

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My primary concern is not about cost. It is more about oil quality, performance and vehicle lifecycle. The oil is what determines vehicle life long AFTER the warranty is expired. Virtually any $2 generic oil will get a modern car thru the "too-brief" warranty period. I need more than that because I don't trade-in every 5 yrs.................

 

Here's a link to a company that will allow you to seperate fact from fiction. Used oil analysis, used them before & they're excellent. Gives you the comfort of knowing exactly what's happening inside the engine.

 

http://www.blackstone-labs.com/

 

Since we're on the topic - Ford can & really they should deny warranty claims if you use any oil that's not on their approved list (don't meet their specifications)..........even if said oil is "better" than what they specify.

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Yes, I would applaud Ford for denying engine warranty claims when unapproved oil was used. Idiots should pay for their own mistakes and that goes for people running Redline oils without API certification in street cars or even ignoring seemingly minor Ford spec. An oil is not "better" if it does not meet specs, period. Put the so-called best $12/qt syn oil in a 1950 tractor motor designed for non-detergent and it may fail. When certifications are missing, one can only assume it's better for an application and that could be dead wrong.

 

I strongly disagree with your claim that oil analysis tells you what is going on in your engine. It doesn't and oil analysis is rarely useful for consumers. It is virtually useless for condition assessment unless you are the original owner and have Blackstone data for the entire life of the car. That will not save you anything lol. It will not tell you what oil type & certification is needed....Ford did that. It will NEVER tell you if 20 or so bearings are wearing perfectly normally or one is wearing excessively. It will not prevent anything from happening either because he results are known AFTER the damage is done. A trained ear and oil pressure gauge work far better for diagnosing CUMULATIVE wear (since t=0) and that's generally what causes engine failure. I've watched enough wealthy fools on BMW Forums blow motors while trying to interpret the significance of a Blackstone snapshot result covering only a portion of the engine's lifecycle (for example, a handful of 5K mi oil change tests performed near 100K mi). What about the wear done over the first 70K mi?? Can't u hear the rods rattling lol? I was the first to recommend proactive rod bearing replacements to M5 owners almost a decade ago based upon higher mileage instead of Blackstone data. The proactive rod replacement strategy has become common practice now. I worked for Chevron/Gulf as a lubricant test engineer and know the value of oil analysis. Engines must be torn down and inspected to see exactly what is happening inside. Oil analysis has limited value even in a tightly-controlled engine test lab environment where oil analysis data is tracked for each engine from cradle to grave.

 

I run the best lubricants available that meet or exceed specs. I will not run cheaper oils that meet spec and then test the oil to see if I'm getting lucky. While I do have some Ford logo hats and OE Ford Farm Tractor grease in my cellar for my amusement, Motorcraft semi-syn 5W-30 is definitely NOT on the top of anybody's "best oil" list. I am smart enough to choose the best lubricant based upon longstanding reputation, not some Ford fanboy mentality. I don't use Chevron or Gulf Oil lubes either.

Edited by Lscman
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Yes, I would applaud Ford for denying engine warranty claims when unapproved oil was used. Idiots should pay for their own mistakes and that goes for people running Redline oils without API certification in street cars or even ignoring seemingly minor Ford spec. An oil is not "better" if it does not meet specs, period. Put the so-called best $12/qt syn oil in a 1950 tractor motor designed for non-detergent and it may fail. When certifications are missing, one can only assume it's better for an application and that could be dead wrong.

 

I strongly disagree with your claim that oil analysis tells you what is going on in your engine. It doesn't and oil analysis is rarely useful for consumers. It is virtually useless for condition assessment unless you are the original owner and have Blackstone data for the entire life of the car. That will not save you anything lol. It will not tell you what oil type & certification is needed....Ford did that. It will NEVER tell you if 20 or so bearings are wearing perfectly normally or one is wearing excessively. It will not prevent anything from happening either because he results are known AFTER the damage is done. A trained ear and oil pressure gauge work far better for diagnosing CUMULATIVE wear (since t=0) and that's generally what causes engine failure. I've watched enough wealthy fools on BMW Forums blow motors while trying to interpret the significance of a Blackstone snapshot result covering only a portion of the engine's lifecycle (for example, a handful of 5K mi oil change tests performed near 100K mi). What about the wear done over the first 70K mi?? Can't u hear the rods rattling lol? I was the first to recommend proactive rod bearing replacements to M5 owners almost a decade ago based upon higher mileage instead of Blackstone data. The proactive rod replacement strategy has become common practice now. I worked for Chevron/Gulf as a lubricant test engineer and know the value of oil analysis. Engines must be torn down and inspected to see exactly what is happening inside. Oil analysis has limited value even in a tightly-controlled engine test lab environment where oil analysis data is tracked for each engine from cradle to grave.

 

I run the best lubricants available that meet or exceed specs. I will not run cheaper oils that meet spec and then test the oil to see if I'm getting lucky. While I do have some Ford logo hats and OE Ford Farm Tractor grease in my cellar for my amusement, Motorcraft semi-syn 5W-30 is definitely NOT on the top of anybody's "best oil" list. I am smart enough to choose the best lubricant based upon longstanding reputation, not some Ford fanboy mentality. I don't use Chevron or Gulf Oil lubes either.

 

So this begs the question: What DO you use?

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I've run Mobil 1 since testing it in the 70's, but also run the best Castrol. I'm OK with the flagship Valvoline and Pennzoil 100% syn products too. These products in 5W-30 viscosity ALL meet the Ford specs for my Fusion 2.0L Turbo. Walmart has been selling these products for a decade for under $6/qt in a 5 qt bottle. My vehicle engines are invariably running same as new at 250K+ miles when the chassis is rusting off and I'm failing state safety inspections. None of my vehicles have shown engine wear symptoms and a number of them have seen 10K miles on a road racing track racing at wide open throttle with oil temps over 300 degrees F. For the record, I'm NOT running Motorcraft syn blend oil except during initial break-in period of ~ 5k to 10k mi when wear is necessary and GOOD. Oil filters are also important. I run Motorcraft for warranty purposes and they are good. Purolator Pure One, Bosch, K&N and Mobil 1 are also good. Fram is bad. They continue to stubbornly use a glued-on cardboard end cap in the element that tends to de-laminate. I had a Fram implode one of my cars long ago when I used to run 25K mi oil changes. Somehow the engine survived and I then began changing oil filters twice between oil changes.

 

I personally witnessed 5.0L and 2.3L Ford test engines on Mobil 1 get torn down for inspection at 300k mi and the hone marks were still visible to the top of the cylinders. The engines looked like they had 25K mi. That was back when it was sold in a genuine 100% metal quart can (no cardboard or plastic) that required piercing. The 351 (5.8L) and 302 (5L) motors were getting police and taxi duty cycle tests with oil changes on 25K mi and even 75k intervals. Upon review of results, dino oil engineers and seasoned PhD's wanted to cry and retire. No kidding...I will NEVER forget that. Back then, Mobil was losing money on every quart they sold and their engineers demanded total respect for such a revolutionary product. It was not cheap to manufacture synthetic oil and appropriate shortcuts were not discovered until many years later.

 

Mobil 1 has indeed changed over the years with pressure to reduce costs plus Mobil's merger with Exxon affected their product line in many ways. You can't go wrong with the extended performance version....stay away from the standard type because it's really just rebranded Exxon crap. There's still a marketing & technical battle going on within Exxon-Mobil and the idiots have the upper hand from a political standpoint. The Exxon engineers know the Mobil engineers had the best product. They are quite jealous but not stupid . I am confident that the top of the line Mobil 1 product will remain top-tier and won't be compromised.

 

Syn blend oils are somewhat of a marketing gimmick. The percentage of syn in these products varies but generally hovers near 20%. They are not much better than conventional oil. It's like taking 20% distilled pure water and mixing it with 80% city tap water. What do you get? City tap water with 20% less impurities.

Edited by Lscman
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  • 2 weeks later...

I can provide my testimony concerning Mobil 1 as well. I used it in my 2000 Jeep Wrangler I-6 from the first oil change until the day I sold it 12 years later. It never burned any oil and I had over 200k on it when it was sold. The next owner contacted me a few months ago to tell me that due to a common piston rod failure (cracking) on the I-6 he had to have the engine torn into. His mechanic was floored when he opened it up and found no sludge and minimal wear.

 

With my personal experience and the testimonies of others that I have heard, I will be using Mobil 1 in my Fusion Hybrid. I look at it like this: engines today rarely catastrophically fail and Mobil 1 is a proven winner. I will hedge my bets and am confident that I won't have to worry about an engine fail issue due to improper lubrication. I enjoy being able to do my own oil changes and such and I know I will do them properly.

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

A Ford Edge owner just passed 230,000 miles using motorcraft 5w-20 synthetic blend at factory intervals. Just sayin'....

I also know folks who reached 300K miles on 100% conventional oil. A woman who smoked and ate 4 slices of bacon daily reached 100 years old. Shall we follow her lead? My point is that an edge owner reaching 230k mi on the cheapo blend says little about how much wear occurred and it does not serve as a reliable life prediction for others using the same oil. It could be nearly worn out...or not. The engine in each car wears differently based upon duty, temps, driver, environment, short trip and countless other variables. I'm not a risk-taker and therefore not compelled to run inferior blend oil to save money. Ford has no liability after the warranty expires and that's when I will be saddled with all repair and replacement costs.

 

PS: Any Edge 2.0L Turbo owner who already reached 230K mi is running lots of highway steady state cruising. The engine wear per mile when running in 6th gear with cruise control on is only a tiny fraction compared to wear rate per mile for the short trip commuters operating in a typical suburban sprawl stop and go mode (seeing 15k mi/yr like me). The engine revolutions per mile can easily be 5x in city driving, not to mention the wear rate is greatly elevated when the oil is cold. It takes about 10 miles for the oil to reach normal operating temps. The more cold starts & short trips, the more wear.

Edited by Lscman
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I have the 2.0 Turbo and I change it out at about six months and about 3300 miles. I have short commutes to work. The computer says between 43-51% when I do this. I change my own oil and good clean oil is the life blood of a turbo. I am not willing to take risks to "save" in this department. I do not use conventional. And in the case of the Fusion I have stuck to a particular brand that my research has indicated to me is being the way to go.

 

To document my oil changes I buy an OEM filter from the dealer the day I change the oil and I snap pics of the receipt and the mileage and store it with the physical receipt.

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