twintornados Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Yahoo Tesla story At one point, Tesla’s third car — the one they’re trying to get to the market for around $35,000 — was called the Model E. Then Ford got huffy and threatened legal action, given that they’ve got something of a history (and a trademark or two) for cars with a similar name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Coming out after the Model X which is coming out sometime next year? What are the odds Tesla is still independent if the Model 3 hits the market--and what are the odds we never see the Model 3 at all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerLS Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Someone pointed this out on a tech news podcast yesterday: Model S Model 3 (formerly Model E) Model X ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2b2 Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 ^ quite L337 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang_sallad Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 Coming out after the Model X which is coming out sometime next year? What are the odds Tesla is still independent if the Model 3 hits the market--and what are the odds we never see the Model 3 at all? About two years ago, i used to say "if they get to Gen 3 car..." - I've stopped saying that now. They'll get there, they have enough momentum now. My biggest concern was what would happen if early customers started having major issues with their batteries 5+ years down the road. Now they've just announced that Tesla Roadster owners can upgrade to the latest batteries, giving them 400 miles of range. They haven't said how much that would cost, but for anyone considering an electric car now, it demonstrates the nation that, when you start looking at needing a battery replacement in 8-10 years, you can benefit from all of the energy density and cost improvements that will have been made by then. No early adopter battery fiasco + free to use cross-country (cross-continent in Europe) charging network means they will continue to sell as many cars as they can make. And of course, once Model 3 hits the market, they'll have such a huge audience of eager buyers who are suddenly able to afford something they've been lusting after for years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang_sallad Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 and i do think they'll continue to be independent - it's too late to buy them up at this stage because they're already valued as if they've made it to Gen 3 (which I've just argued is actually a logical conclusion). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 They just installed a bunch of Tesla Superchargers at the rest areas on the Merritt Parkway on the NY/CT border. Was surprised to see them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 They'll get there, they have enough momentum now Where's their profits and positive cash flow from operations? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 Where's their profits and positive cash flow from operations? You don't need all that if you have "momentum"....... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PREMiERdrum Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 You don't need all that if you have "momentum"....... "Cash or Credit?" "Do you accept momentum?" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang_sallad Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 Where's their profits and positive cash flow from operations? It'll come when Model 3 hits the road, as Elon Musk had predicted back in 2008. They don't say things like that these days for obvious reasons but I've always believed it. Meanwhile, the ability to shift resources to Model 3 development is increasing as their expenses to support Model S (including growth of stores and charging network) while their sales continue to grow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 Sure. They'll be a successful independent auto manufacturer that will be profitable enough to sustain ongoing investment and to perpetually fight legal battles against dealers in 50 states in an industry that has *how many* other auto manufacturers that are this small? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 (edited) What gets me is the perception that Tesla's leases are only $400-$500/mth when they are well over $1100/mth. There's a whole lot of discounting costs and tax offsets being used to convince people into leases on the basis of some perceived tax advantages. I don't know how this would play with a wider audience but I bet it's probably the reason why Tesla is now looking at lower cost models. I'm seeing a similar MO here to what other luxury marques are discovering, that all the growth is in lower cost vehicles while the brand requires high end sales to sustain its development programs. Edited July 20, 2014 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang_sallad Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 What gets me is the perception that Tesla's leases are only $400-$500/mth when they are well over $1100/mth. There's a whole lot of discounting costs and tax offsets being used to convince people into leases on the basis of some perceived tax advantages. I don't know how this would play with a wider audience but I bet it's probably the reason why Tesla is now looking at lower cost models. I'm seeing a similar MO here to what other luxury marques are discovering, that all the growth is in lower cost vehicles while the brand requires high end sales to sustain its development programs. "now looking at lower cost models"? The first time I heard mention of what is now called Model 3 was in 2008. This was their plan from the beginning. Start out at the high end of the market, build up a reputation while driving down costs and move down market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang_sallad Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Sure. They'll be a successful independent auto manufacturer that will be profitable enough to sustain ongoing investment and to perpetually fight legal battles against dealers in 50 states in an industry that has *how many* other auto manufacturers that are this small? So a thing can't exist because other things like it don't currently exist? These guys have already accomplished a lot more than any other auto startup over the past 50+ years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 (edited) The Buick Regal, refreshed with a revamped powertrain for 2014, now ranks among the top upscale sports sedans tested by Consumer Reports, just behind the BMW 328i but high enough to easily top the magazine’s road test scores for the Cadillac ATS and CTS sedans. The magazine, in its September issue, also says the improved Volvo S60 is sportier enough to give “more prestigious competitors from BMW and Mercedes-Benz serious competition.” The magazine’s engineers found the Regal’s performance, handling and easy-to-use infotainment system especially appealing, helping it beat the Volvo S60 in a head-to-head road test. The Regal finished just 1 point shy of the class-leading BMW 328i, with 84 points, and tied the Mercedes-Benz C250 for second place with 83 points, in the magazine’s overall ratings of upscale sport sedans. The Volvo S60 received a road score of 80, ahead of the Volkwagen CC, Infiniti Q50, Audi A4 and Lexus IS. Consumer Reports gave the latest Cadillac CTS, a mid-sized luxury sport sedan, and the ATS sedan, which competes more directly with the Regal in size and price, each a score of 76. Of all the top upscale, sporty sedans the magazine has evaluated in recent tests, only the 328i, Regal and C250 are recommended. “The Regal is a thoroughly developed and satisfying mid-sized sports sedan that’s more reminiscent of a German sports car than the softly sprung luxo-barges that Buick was once known for,” Jake Fisher, Consumer Reports’ director of automotive testing, said in a statement. All the growth is happening in the smaller vehicle segments particularly China where profit margins are way less, lux brands are forced to do it for survivability where as sub luxury / premium/ affordable quality brands can do this at nausea. Edited July 23, 2014 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 (edited) So a thing can't exist because other things like it don't currently exist? These guys have already accomplished a lot more than any other auto startup over the past 50+ years. Unsustainable in the long run and Musk knows it. The product development costs are horrendous and all supported by selling inflated stock, it's a house of cards. Edited July 23, 2014 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 (edited) So a thing can't exist because other things like it don't currently exist? These guys have already accomplished a lot more than any other auto startup over the past 50+ years. I don't believe in exceptionalism. And please quantify "a lot more" in terms of profit. Because that's how you stay in business. There are no shortage of people who can come up with good ideas when they have no need to turn a profit, and when all they need to do is write a grant proposal prospectus in order to obtain a few hundred million more to play with. Edited July 23, 2014 by RichardJensen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banker55 Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 I don't believe in exceptionalism. And please quantify "a lot more" in terms of profit. Because that's how you stay in business. There are no shortage of people who can come up with good ideas when they have no need to turn a profit, and when all they need to do is write a grant proposal prospectus in order to obtain a few hundred million more to play with. It is hard to quantify when the most popular description in your letter to shareholders is "on a non-GAAP basis" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 (edited) Another wonderful part of Tesla: The rank hypocrisy of lobbying everywhere against laws that benefit certain businesses while your most profitable product continues to be a tax credit. Edited July 23, 2014 by RichardJensen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang_sallad Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Another wonderful part of Tesla: The rank hypocrisy of lobbying everywhere against laws that benefit certain businesses while your most profitable product continues to be a tax credit. Are you saying that the government shouldn't support a transition to electrified transportation anymore than it supports car dealerships? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 (edited) Are you saying that the government shouldn't support a transition to electrified transportation anymore than it supports car dealerships? I'm saying that a company that benefits from legislation should be careful when criticizing other companies that benefit from legislation. Edited July 23, 2014 by RichardJensen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Same thing goes for farmers who complain about food stamps while collecting their annual direct payment subsidies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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