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Ford 2015 April sales down 1%


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I agree,Correlation does not equal causation, but why is Toyota more profitable than ford with more niche models?

 

 

?

 

Camry and Corolla are cash cows for Toyota. They've made hardly any platform changes in over a decade or longer. That generates big profits.

 

Toyota has 2 huge markets - Japan and the U.S. Ford and GM only have the U.S. because they're not allowed to compete equally in Japan. Not to mention Japanese government assistance.

 

 

Ford had to spend a lot of money updating F150 to keep it competitive and to consolidate platforms with Focus, Escape and Fusion and to develop a new platform for Taurus,Edge and Explorer. Add in Transit, Mustang and normal product updates and it's easy to see the difference. Toyota and Lexus have established lineups and global platforms already so they have more resources to spend on lower volume niche products.

 

It wasn't that long ago that Ford was losing billions per year. If you don't take care of your volume products first you won't be in business long enough to do the niche products.

 

step 1 - diversify your products. Ford has done this with better cars and crossovers.

step 2 - cut unnecessary costs. Ford has done this by right-sizing factories, killing unprofitable vehicles and consolidating global platforms and engines. And by right-sizing production volumes to reduce rebates.

step 3 - grow high profit vehicles. Ford is starting to do this with Lincoln and Titanium Fords.

step 4 - add more niche and lower volume vehicles. Not there yet.

 

Toyota is already in step 4. Ford is paying the price for mistakes made during the 90s and early 2000s with steps 1-3. It will take quite some time to catch up.

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Today's Ford is more focused on offering it customers better quality vehicles that it can charge more for,

while that means ultimate sales figures may be less I think they are hitting the sweet spot for efficiency with resources and effort expended.

 

Sometimes you have to wonder about capacity to grow when most of Ford's NA plants are now running three shifts,

that quest for maximum efficiency means that there's little or no excess capacity to speak of.

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Today's Ford is more focused on offering it customers better quality vehicles

 

Not considering the MFT blasting, is there any proof of quality slippage which is causing them to fall on the JD Power results? Or, was the the fall-off mainly from MFT complaints? If you saw my post, my last two have been not so great on quality. I've seen numerous Focus disasters along with Escape. A friend of a friend had 4 transmissions put in their Escape in one year and they got rid of it and won't go back to Ford.

Edited by Hydro
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Not considering the MFT blasting, is there any proof of quality slippage which is causing them to fall on the JD Power results? Or, was the the fall-off mainly from MFT complaints? If you saw my post, my last two have been not so great on quality. I've seen numerous Focus disasters along with Escape. A friend of a friend had 4 transmissions put in their Escape in one year and they got rid of it and won't go back to Ford.

 

I don't know what the deal is with your F150, but initial quality at time-of-launch of every Euro-derived Ford brand product has been *terrible*, and scuttlebutt around here is that's why the MKZ launch was delayed for like 3 months.

Edited by RichardJensen
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That is the point I feel like ford only wants the volume end of the market, and ignores low and medium volume segments. It is those high end fillers that build that incremental volume for the brand. Look at Lexus lots of medium volume global products but anchored by a few high volume products. The concept of shared architectures spawning a wide variety of products is what ford is supposed to be doing but every platform from D3 to today has far fewer products on them than their comparable platform at Toyota or even GM.

 

They must get better at developing and producing medium volume products.

I don't think that's necessarily true. As the portfolio currently stands, yes, they're concentrating efforts on the volume products, but I don't think it's right to say they only want volume products and ignoring other segments. I think they are simply allocating limited resources toward the most critical areas before venturing further out into more niche products.

 

You mentioned Lexus and this they have a variety of medium volume products. They didn't get there overnight. They've made the core lineup strong and have slowly expanded their offerings into more and more niche segments.

 

I believe you'll see this over the next few years from Ford and Lincoln as they have the core products strong, and then move toward offering more niche models.

 

Another poster mentioned plant utilization and how several plants are running at 3 shifts. I wonder if that may be impacting their niche product offerings as well.....if you're needing to utilize most if not all of your plants' capacity on the volume models, there simply may not be enough room to build additional niche products to make it worthwhile.

 

That said, there is not and cannot be one specific answer to the question - it would be a combination of different factors leading to a choice to concentrate on the core lineup vs niche products.

 

You can look at GM to see the opposite strategy - concentrating on niche products while the core lineup suffers.

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The results were weak, not bad. Ford's results in April 2013 were quite good and this has just more or less put them back in the pack. It's sad, though, that Ford doesn't have staying power, particularly in cars (e.g., maintaining won marketshare).

 

Some details of results:

  1. Cars are pretty weak right now. Part of that is cyclical (Taurus, Focus, Mustang have been around). Part of that is quality perception. Features that push boundaries like MFT, DSG, Ecoboost are to blame (and not necessarily because they break - they just don't perform as expected), but those are also items that sell the vehicles.
  2. The Lincoln result doesn't bother me in the slightest.
  3. Jeep is probably hurting Ford more than other brands (Escape/Edge - I bet a lot of these guys were once Cherokee owners. Nostalgia is powerful).

Some trends to watch:

  1. I believe Ford is losing the gas mileage perception war that was helping it for a while. I think the C-Max effect has spread beyond just the PHEV and includes the ecoboost cars in particular as well. Ecoboost is not performing in terms of mileage based on what was originally trumpeted - certainly nothing in the 15-20% range. This is less of an issue on the truck side, imo, mileage is important but such a secondary consideration to other utility factors.
  2. Which means Ford may have a brand problem with its cars again (still?). Why by a Ford car vs Toyota (reliable) or Honda (good all around)? If you can't differentiate your brand, you can't maintain won marketshare. Ford has done a great job with truck branding and ok with CUVs (although I'd argue that they are coasting on historical perception more than they should). So, launches kick off marketshare gains, which are all lost as the model ages and only maintained at old levels through price moves. Fusion will tell us a lot.
  3. I'm betting right now that Ford trucks will cool off in 2016/2017 finally as consumers get used to the technology of the F-150 and GM/Ram catch up. I just expect that some of the technology changes will be "difficult" to handle. At least Ford has that brand.

 

Are the cars bad quality because they are European? Probably not. Although, I suspect there are some global integration problems. It's probably that Ford is pushing the boundaries more in its European-derived products (DSG, ecoboost, MFT... sound familiar?). I also believe that the European vehicles have a fundamental sizing problems. The Ford products are considerably smaller in interior size than their competitors without similar dimensional reduction. That will hurt them over time (if not already). There are also usability problems with the interiors. The interior designs are rubbish, imo, but I've already spent time on this.

 

I'll be watching a few things in the months ahead:

  • The 2015 Transit launch. By Sep we should have some data on whether Ford made a good call (I think so).
  • The 2015 Focus launch carefully because it will bring the car back to the forefront with all its baggage (MFT, transmission issues), it's great attributes (driving experience), and some improvements (ecoboost, interior).
  • F-150 goes without saying. The Mustang launch... meh.
  • The MKC is the launch to watch for Lincoln. So we'll have data by Sep/Oct on the fate of that brand.
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I don't know what the deal is with your F150, but initial quality at time-of-launch of every Euro-derived Ford brand product has been *terrible*, and scuttlebutt around here is that's why the MKZ launch was delayed for like 3 months.

Yeah, I don't know either, but it's slowly bugging me. I've also had the Electrical brain changed out that controls the HVac, a broken clip on the rear passenger door, dash rattle and a few other quirks. My friend at work also bought a brand new FX4 when I did and has the rear end clunk . He had his brake master cylinder replaced within the first week of owning it and also has low MPG with the EB. I just hope they can keep a focus on quality while cranking out such a large number of vehicles. I kinda wish they didn't sell as many and made sure everything was perfect. My 09 Edge was so great, I never had an uneasy feeling about it once. Rock solid with no rattles, strong motor with good MPG (3.5L) and only saw the dealer once for a leaking axle seal. Same with our 2010 Fusion with the 3.0L. Only dealer maintenance visits.

Edited by Hydro
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Why?

 

Biker has his theories, I have mine.

 

My theory is that Ford tried to change too much, too quickly, and as evidence I point to the smoother launch of products in the 2006-2009 timeframe. Those products used existing Ford suppliers and went generally well (there were a few issues with the Edge). I think the suppliers were not prepared to deliver quality product, and I think Ford planners minimized the difficulty of migrating platforms.

 

I've never been able to comprehend what Biker thinks went wrong, but as best as I can tell, it's because Ford's NA employees suddenly lost the ability to assemble products correctly.

Edited by RichardJensen
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Delays on custom ordered vehicles is probably not helping sales. I was told that due to dealer stock orders and allocations is the reason my Fusion I ordered is going to take so long. So Ford doesn't seem to want the customer who already wants it ahead of a dealer that just wants it for the showroom. I see a flaw in that way of doing things.

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Delays on custom ordered vehicles is probably not helping sales. I was told that due to dealer stock orders and allocations is the reason my Fusion I ordered is going to take so long. So Ford doesn't seem to want the customer who already wants it ahead of a dealer that just wants it for the showroom. I see a flaw in that way of doing things.

 

Actually it's the complete opposite. When Ford starts production on a new model they hold every vehicle for inspection until the plant goes 5 straight days without a flaw. 4.9 days and one flaw - the 5 day clock starts again. All of these vehicles have to be held, inspected and in some cases repaired. If your special order was in this batch you might have to wait weeks or months. So they build dealer stock first and only start building retail orders when they can build and ship them directly.

 

Of course this means you'll get some dealer stock coming in before special orders but what you don't see are the thousands of dealer stock vehicles still sitting at the factory.

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Biker has his theories, I have mine.

 

My theory is that Ford tried to change too much, too quickly, and as evidence I point to the smoother launch of products in the 2006-2009 timeframe. Those products used existing Ford suppliers and went generally well (there were a few issues with the Edge). I think the suppliers were not prepared to deliver quality product, and I think Ford planners minimized the difficulty of migrating platforms.

 

I've never been able to comprehend what Biker thinks went wrong, but as best as I can tell, it's because Ford's NA employees suddenly lost the ability to assemble products correctly.

I'm curious as to whether these problems have been overcome.

 

One thing I've noticed is that fit of the body panels and exterior trim has improved markedly over the past year. I visited my local Quality Plus Ford-Lincoln dealer to check out the new cars this past Sunday. The new Fords and Lincolns I looked at were nicely assembled (on the outside). That definitely wasn't the case when these new vehicles - Fusion, Focus, Escape, MKZ - were introduced.

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Delays on custom ordered vehicles is probably not helping sales. I was told that due to dealer stock orders and allocations is the reason my Fusion I ordered is going to take so long. So Ford doesn't seem to want the customer who already wants it ahead of a dealer that just wants it for the showroom. I see a flaw in that way of doing things.

 

Except that most vehicles are not custom orders. Dealers need to have the right mix of vehicles in stock for walk-in customers. Yes, most custom orders are guaranteed sales (even that's not in stone until the customer actually takes delivery) but if the dealer can't keep the right mix in stock, they'll probably lose a lot more than the one customer who pre-ordered.

Edited by NickF1011
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Except that most vehicles are not custom orders. Dealers need to have the right mix of vehicles in stock for walk-in customers. Yes, most custom orders are guaranteed sales (even that's not in stone until the customer actually takes delivery) but if the dealer can't keep the right mix in stock, they'll probably lose a lot more than the one customer who pre-ordered.

 

Retail orders always get priority (1-19) over dealer stock (20-99). Product launch is an exception due to hold and inspect delays.

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Retail orders always get priority (1-19) over dealer stock (20-99). Product launch is an exception due to hold and inspect delays.

 

Yes, but that's not to say they will always arrive first at the dealer. If Ford is producing a particular configuration one day, they aren't going to throw a retail order of a significantly different configuration in there just to make sure it gets done first. Then there could always be parts delays for a particular configuration. Plenty of reasons a dealer will get dealer stock before a custom order.

Edited by NickF1011
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I expect so.

 

I don't think there is anything 'wrong' with the EU-derived product, that it is incapable of being assembled to the same quality as the NA product.

For whatever reason, it initially wasn't...the first year or so of the current Fusion was definitely not as well-built as the prior generation, which was a nicely built car.

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Taking the Blue I.V. out of my veins... I am a little concerned with Ford's future. Not meaning going out of business , but keeping their new customers and maintaining sales volume. Here's my opinion or should I say my experience. My last two new Ford's ( 2011 F-150 FX4 and 2014 Fusion Titanium) have been the worst I've ever owned. Both have been back to the dealer more than my previous 10 new Fords. Let's also not count my 2008 F250 6.4L because that also saw the dealer way too much and had quite a few recalls along with a oil leak they couldn't find or fix. My F-150 still has a driveline clunking issue that can't be fixed even when they had the truck for over a month. Being on F-150 forums this is a MAJOR problem even through the new 2013's. The Fusion rattles like a '89 Hyundai and has electrical glitches. Another HUGE problem will be with the EcoBoost engines. That's pretty much all they offer now and the vast majority of owners on forums and in public talk about how miserable their mileage is. Yes, driving habits make a difference, but even when we try to get close to the EPA figure, it doesn't happen. Even keeping up with traffic should net you pretty close, but I'm 6mpg off in my truck and the fusion is barely averaging the city claimed mpg with 60% freeway and 40% city driving (22mpg). Our Fusion which has been on three road trips has only managed 25 MPG on all highway runs with very little city driving. Mind you, this is keeping up with traffic in the fast lane so speeds vary between 68-80 mph. Our last Fusion with the 3.0L averaged 31.5 MPG going even faster around 75-85 mph on those trips. I wish they still offered that engine. These boosted motors do crap mpg wise with keeping up with traffic or being a little aggressive. Word of mouth is getting out to stay away from the EB unless you want great power, but crap MPG. Just this past weekend 4 people at the resort we were staying at complimented the car and asked about the engine. I didn't lie and once they heard what I said, they said "we've heard the same thing". This is the future engines which Ford is heading and has we worried. I will not buy another EB engine. They do nothing MPG wise with my driving style and I'm not alone. So if Ford doesn't offer non boosted power plants that make good power I'll be leaving.

Well said, sir. The last reliable Ford I owned was my 2010 Fusion, and the multitude of Fords that I owned before the Fusion I never had any major issues with. Both the european 2012 Focus and 2013 Escape I owned were terrible in reliability and funky in engineering/operation. Had to wait forever to get both of them because of quality delay issues, but they told me that was because they wanted "bug" free vehicles for their customers. They were in the shop more times then I could count and Ford's customer service was bottom of the barrel. Once I was rid of them I just couldn't justify supporting Ford any longer nor stomach another vehicle with MFT, so a lifetime Ford owner is gone. I may be back once they get out of this "one vehicle for all" phase, get rid of MFT, and start making vehicles designed and engineered to American tastes like the F-150 still is. You can tell where their bread and butter is and they won't mess that up.

 

My feelings are the same as yours about being unsure about Ford's future, especially now that Mullaly is gone. I have always felt Fields is very impersonal and "uppity" and may not connect with his people and the customers the same way Mullaly did. Secondly, I feel they put too many eggs in to the "one (european) Ford" basket, and went too strong on ecoboost. Like you said the fuel economy doesn't live up to the hype, my parents were getting better fuel economy in their v-6 edge than their 2.0 EB escape in the same driving cycles, and I have heard many stories of the same. Everything other than the old chassis that are still around are now european in electronics and styling. Everything is starting to look the same in styling and it's already getting old to me. Mustang now has heavy european influence, look at the height of the front edge of the hood. Also the reliability in electrical systems has tanked (we should of all known european electronics have never been reliable nor intuitive in operation). MFT has been a nightmare across the entire vehicle line and they are just now getting around to replacing the terrible back end of that system that they have been hacking at for 4 years. Almost died when I saw they were putting that MFT crap in the 2015 Mustang, hopefully the software can be upgraded to the new OS on the 2015 and later vehicles.

Edited by svtenthusiast
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get rid of MFT, and start making vehicles designed and engineered to American tastes like the F-150 still is. You can tell where their bread and butter is and they won't mess that up.

 

Umm....but the F-150 has MFT.

 

 

Also the reliability in electrical systems has tanked (we should of all known european electronics have never been reliable nor intuitive in operation). MFT has been a nightmare across the entire vehicle line

 

But MFT was developed in the US. Is it the crappy European electronics or the American ones?

 

 

 

As for the Mustang, the more I see it, the more I like it. And I already liked it when it was first revealed. Glad it doesn't look like it was designed in the 1960's.

Edited by NickF1011
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Umm....but the F-150 has MFT.

 

 

 

But MFT was developed in the US. Is it the crappy European electronics or the American ones?

 

 

 

As for the Mustang, the more I see it, the more I like it. And I already liked it when it was first revealed. Glad it doesn't look like it was designed in the 1960's.

feel for Hydro...that sucks. that said, our ST is averaging 28-29 combined, and shes NOT babied, Mileage is always going to be a bug bear, theres differing gas between states, different elevations and most importantly different driving styles...theres NO doubt I could obtain the 33 if I pussy footed the car..and as for the MFT complaints, i have ZERO, and I mean ZERO compalints...so it rebutes some of the complaints and in my opinion is reflective of the work Ford has done to improve the system based on consumer feedback.

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feel for Hydro...that sucks. that said, our ST is averaging 28-29 combined, and shes NOT babied, Mileage is always going to be a bug bear, theres differing gas between states, different elevations and most importantly different driving styles...theres NO doubt I could obtain the 33 if I pussy footed the car..and as for the MFT complaints, i have ZERO, and I mean ZERO compalints...so it rebutes some of the complaints and in my opinion is reflective of the work Ford has done to improve the system based on consumer feedback.

 

I wouldn't say I have NO MFT complaints. Mine did the ol' "performing scheduled maintance" thing on me the other day. Of course, that was the first time it had done that in months. Overall, the only continuous complaint I have from it is it randomly switching audio inputs when I start it up, going from AM/FM to USB, etc. But that's not exactly a reason to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Overall, I like it much more than any other OE audio/climate system I've used regularly.

 

For comparison, the aftermarket Kenwood unit in my Mustang will still sometimes refuse to play my iPod until I unplug it and plug it back in. I don't think anyone has the technology completely nailed yet.

Edited by NickF1011
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