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Guest Message by DevFuse

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Ford up 6%, Industry reports September sales


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98 replies to this topic

#41 OFFLINE   SoonerLS

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 09:16 AM

 Question; where will Ford get its future innovation now that it no longer has those high-end Euro R&D labs?

Don't overestimate those "high-end Euro R&D labs." Ford has very capable engineers in Dearborn, Europe, and Australia, and they no longer have the PAG brands sucking cash out of their coffers.


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#42 OFFLINE   akirby

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 09:59 AM

Don't overestimate those "high-end Euro R&D labs." Ford has very capable engineers in Dearborn, Europe, and Australia, and they no longer have the PAG brands sucking cash out of their coffers.

 

Last time I checked Ford was supplying engines to those Euro makes with the high end R&D labs (Range Rover, Aston Martin).  Other than aluminum construction, what did any of the PAG brands contribute?



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#43 OFFLINE   Fgts

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 10:12 AM

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="silvrsvt" data-cid="874112" data-time="1380717061"><p>
 <br />
 <br />
And thank you for pointing out the idiotic nature of GM...lets spread out our money on multiple overlapping programs that cut into our profit margins. It makes no sense to spend money on a boutique brand or sales numbers if you can't support them long term with updates. Then you have to figure that GM will start "diluting" the ATS/CTS platform by coming out with a Buick and Chevy based off it...with the same crappy sales numbers...<br />
 <br />
Spending money on Caddy wouldn't be so bad if they had their shit together with other products...but they don't. You bring up the EpII program, the Malibu even with an emergency refresh is still a turd, where as the Fusion is more or less setting the standard for styling and performance in the CD market now. </p></blockquote>

Why is it idiotic if several other rwd cars and a few CUVs will be on this platform?. Are they supposed to let the CTS and Camaro rot and not get replaced or replaced by a pos fwd version while the foreign competitors take more market from them?. The Epll platform moves as many cars as CD4 per month (the Malibu and Lacrosse moved 20,000 cars alone not to mention Impala XTS and Regal last month) I'm pretty sure a "one platform for all" solution is all that great ( see "W-body" for details).
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#44 OFFLINE   papilgee4evaeva

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 10:20 AM

Last time I checked Ford was supplying engines to those Euro makes with the high end R&D labs (Range Rover, Aston Martin).  Other than aluminum construction, what did any of the PAG brands contribute?

 

Red ink?

 

Oh, and the D3 platform.  :stirpot:


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CURRENT VEHICLES
2005 Buick Rainier CXL V8, 158K (mine)
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1999 Nissan Maxima SE Limited, 188K (wife's; donated)

2001 Pontiac Bonneville SLE, 126K (the Cruise Missile; started getting gremlins, plus we outgrew it)

1996 Nissan Pathfinder SE 4WD, 111-160K+ (stupid odometer) (sold to make room for the Bonnie)
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FUTURE VEHICLES?

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#45 OFFLINE   silvrsvt

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 10:49 AM

Why is it idiotic if several other rwd cars and a few CUVs will be on this platform?

 

 

Its not...is GM trying and trying and trying again to get the RWD platform sorted...how much $$$ did GM dump into Caddy and what was the real result (i.e. Profit) from it? It makes no sense to keep dumping money foolishly like GM has into products that keep under-performing. 

 

At the rate GM is going..they'll run out of the Greek alphabet before they get their RWD platform sorted in a proper way.


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#46 OFFLINE   RichardJensen

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 11:20 AM

 where will Ford get its future innovation now that it no longer has those high-end Euro R&D labs?

 

 

Same place it got that future innovation while it had those high-end R&D labs:

 

From Ford employees paid by profits from Ford products.


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#47 OFFLINE   TomServo92

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 11:42 AM

 
Red ink?
 
Oh, and the D3 platform.  :stirpot:


Don't forget the Lincoln LS.....oh wait....

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#48 OFFLINE   RangerM

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 11:48 AM

Last time I checked Ford was supplying engines to those Euro makes with the high end R&D labs (Range Rover, Aston Martin).  Other than aluminum construction, what did any of the PAG brands contribute?

I'd think they may have learned something from their brief cooperation with Volvo about safety and awd, but I don't know how far in advance the Five Hundred was started.  (it shared some components, iirc)


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#49 OFFLINE   RichardJensen

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 11:50 AM

The Five Hundred was basically a car built on the XC90 platform.


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#50 OFFLINE   akirby

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 11:51 AM

I'd think they may have learned something from their brief cooperation with Volvo about safety and awd, but I don't know how far in advance the Five Hundred was started.  (it shared some components, iirc)

 

Yep, I'll give them that one.



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#51 OFFLINE   NickF1011

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 12:05 PM

 

They are going to have to trade it, I don' t think there is another option. It makes sense in the business case for short term profits. The issue is when someone that was going to buy and Escape can't get what they want and goes and gets a CRV/Rav4, that customer could be gone for life and never into a Lincoln. I think 300K Escapes a year plus 30-40K MKC's is a real number for the US if sales keep increasing like is projected over the next few years. The MKC will be Lincoln's best selling vehicle.
 
Well if Ford is maxing out the production volume either way, ask yourself this: is it better for an Escape buyers to not find the vehicle they want and to go buy a Rav4 instead or is it better for a MKC buyers to not find the vehicle they want and go buy a Lexus instead?
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#52 OFFLINE   Biker16

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 09:38 PM

How much did CTS, the new CTS, and the ATS cost to develop and put into production? How much the MKZ? 

 

That wasn't the Question, is the MKZ a better car than the ATS or CTS?

 

Name a company that develops mediocre products that out performs a company that develops superior products, hint.. It happens all the time.

 

My point is no one should get too carried away with we out sold Caddy, because the MKZ is merely adequate and excels at being a product that inspires neither passion or disdain, a very ominous start for a product that is supposed to resurrect a brand.

 

As to the profitability of the ATS or CTS No one knows how profitable or unprofitable these products are. My guess is that they are designed to be profitable at the volumes they were going to be sold at.  this also includes Export sales to china and the Rest of the world.  After all these aren't cheap cars, there is always a natural cushion with them.


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#53 OFFLINE   Edstock

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 10:04 PM

My point is no one should get too carried away with we out sold Caddy, because the MKZ is merely adequate and excels at being a product that inspires neither passion or disdain, a very ominous start for a product that is supposed to resurrect a brand.

 

That's your opinion. Mine is that people who own 'em probably feel a whole lot different and they'll be talking to their friends and associates, a very auspicious start for a product that is supposed to resurrect a brand. You see, those with a negative predisposition like yourself would never "ask the man who owns one", because your mind is already made up. But those who have no negative predisposition may like the way it looks and do precisely that. Word-of-mouth is the best any company can get. Again, time will tell. :)


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#54 OFFLINE   jpd80

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 04:14 AM

It is clear that ATS has not lived up to GM's sales expectation - given the huge inventory....

And..... CTS sales have been attributed to old Sigma models being quick sailed,

I can't see the new much more expensive CTS being that big of a sales hit.....



#55 OFFLINE   jpd80

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 05:07 AM

And hybrids are just one example of what Ford is capable of when it focuses energy

on maximizing returns from investing in new technology, the new Electric CVT is a marvel.



#56 OFFLINE   Biker16

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 05:41 PM

It is clear that ATS has not lived up to GM's sales expectation - given the huge inventory....

And..... CTS sales have been attributed to old Sigma models being quick sailed,

I can't see the new much more expensive CTS being that big of a sales hit.....

the US is marginal market of the ATS the target for this product is China not the US.

 

Even if it doesn't meet expectations it doesn't mean It failed because of Its platform, it could simply mean buyers are turned off by it's styling, as may be the case for Cadillac in China.

 

you can not run a successful company that is wholly focused on making safe products.

 

That's your opinion. Mine is that people who own 'em probably feel a whole lot different and they'll be talking to their friends and associates, a very auspicious start for a product that is supposed to resurrect a brand. You see, those with a negative predisposition like yourself would never "ask the man who owns one", because your mind is already made up. But those who have no negative predisposition may like the way it looks and do precisely that. Word-of-mouth is the best any company can get. Again, time will tell. :)

 

Time will tell.


Edited by Biker16, 05 October 2013 - 05:45 PM.

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#57 OFFLINE   jpd80

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 06:10 PM

The US is marginal market of the ATS the target for this product is China not the US.

 

Even if it doesn't meet expectations it doesn't mean It failed because of Its platform, it could simply mean buyers are turned off by it's styling, as may be the case for Cadillac in China.

 

you can not run a successful  company that is wholly focused on making safe products.

. ATS was primarily conceived to compete with BMW 3 series but now you're saying China might be the main market.for ATS - I'd call that second prize at best.

From what i see, Cadillac basically tore the mid sized CT market in two with very little probably of increasing sales over providing a single replacement vehicle.

That's where i see added cost with Cadillac's strategy.- I don't have a problem with RWD, just GM execution of what should be a straight forward car.


Edited by jpd80, 05 October 2013 - 06:12 PM.


#58 OFFLINE   Biker16

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 06:19 PM

the new Electric CVT is a marvel.

 

I am conflicted about it because Ford has developed a one size fits all power-pack, that isn't flexible enough to scale up into ,larger vheicle and is too powerfull to be optimized for smaller vehicles where the bulk of HEV sales Globally are coming from.


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#59 OFFLINE   Biker16

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 06:31 PM

. ATS was primarily conceived to compete with BMW 3 series but now you're saying China might be the main market.for ATS - I'd call that second prize at best.

From what i see, Cadillac basically tore the mid sized CT market in two with very little probably of increasing sales over providing a single replacement vehicle.

That's where i see added cost with Cadillac's strategy.- I don't have a problem with RWD, just GM execution of what should be a straight forward car.

 you cannot base the sales of any compact luxury vehicle on Us sales alone. GM had a plan to take cadliac global and the ATS  was a critical product to make that happen.


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#60 OFFLINE   jpd80

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 06:32 PM

I am conflicted about it because Ford has developed a one size fits all power-pack, that isn't flexible enough to scale up into ,larger vheicle and is too powerfull to be optimized for smaller vehicles where the bulk of HEV sales Globally are coming from.

I doubt there would be too much problem with increasing/decreasing either ICE engine size or electric drive motor size.

I see it more a case of Ford going with a suite of vehicles where sales probability and recognition will help future expansion plans.










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