Ford Motor Company June 2013 Sales

[jpd80]

Need we be reminded that Lexus's two best-selling models are FWD-based? As are the volume Audis. And no, I don't think it has anything to do with them benefiting by association. It's because people generally just don't care what wheels drive their vehicle.

This.

The age grouping of actual buyers in the respective marques and their selection criteria

is clearly not a universal standard across all luxury vehicles. not all luxury buyers need

or even desire high performance RWD vehicles.

[rmc523]

I will probably get slammed for saying this, but IMHO the GMT900s are just better looking full size SUVs. They just seem to have a presence and style that the Expedition doesn't and although they are traditional they still have a modern flair to them. The interior on them seems a bit softer and more SUV like compared to the F-Series style of the Expedition.

 

When it comes to the Escalade versus the Navigator there just isn't any comparison. Solid axle or not the Escalade just seems to be more luxurious and stylish. I also believe that the Navigator is down quite a bit on power compared to the Escalade.

 

I'm not sure the reason behind the success of the GMT900s, but I assume that the next generation will be hard to beat. From what I have read each model will have more "unique" styling, but I am not sure how different the Chevy and GMC versions will be although it is likely the Cadillac might get some unique pieces.

 

Ford has claimed going forward that every Lincoln would have completely unique sheet metal, but you have to wonder looking at Navigator sales if that would really pay off?

 

I'll give it to you, the GMT900s are good looking SUVs, however, they do have a major advantage over the Expy/Navi in that they've been redesigned since 2003. Yeah, the Expy/Navi were given a refresh in '07, but there's only so much you can do to change a car's look when only changing the front end and taillights, and as we saw with the Navigator, the results can be bad.

 

I may be wrong, but I'd say that I think the Navigator may be the one exception to the completely unique sheetmetal directive. However, that said, on the flip side, if they went with completely unique sheetmetal (of course sharing everything underneath), along with different/additional powertrains available in the Navigator (vs. Expy), that could go a decent way toward silencing critics who say it's business as usual at Lincoln.

[NickF1011]

I'll give it to you, the GMT900s are good looking SUVs, however, they do have a major advantage over the Expy/Navi in that they've been redesigned since 2003. Yeah, the Expy/Navi were given a refresh in '07, but there's only so much you can do to change a car's look when only changing the front end and taillights, and as we saw with the Navigator, the results can be bad.

 

I may be wrong, but I'd say that I think the Navigator may be the one exception to the completely unique sheetmetal directive. However, that said, on the flip side, if they went with completely unique sheetmetal (of course sharing everything underneath), along with different/additional powertrains available in the Navigator (vs. Expy), that could go a decent way toward silencing critics who say it's business as usual at Lincoln.

As long as it's not different sheet metal for the sake of different sheet metal, or you end up with some abomination like the QX56.

[FordFanForEver]

When you say different sheet metal, what does that mean?

[NickF1011]

When you say different sheet metal, what does that mean?

All of the exterior panels that are visible. Sometimes there's just no point in changing them between vehicles if other things can be done effectively to differentiate them. Yes, some needs to be changed, but often times things like the door skins can get by without any change, especially on trucks.

Edited July 10, 2013 by NickF1011

[SoonerLS]

All of the exterior panels that are visible. Sometimes there's just no point in changing them between vehicles if other things can be done effectively to differentiate them. Yes, some needs to be changed, but often times things like the door skins can get by without any change, especially on trucks.

As long as they don't do what they did with the Mark LT--literally, the only differences between that and the F-150 were the grille and the Lincoln logos. It did what they needed at the time (brought in money for an extremely small investment), but I don't think they can pull that same trick twice.

[NickF1011]

As long as they don't do what they did with the Mark LT--literally, the only differences between that and the F-150 were the grille and the Lincoln logos. It did what they needed at the time (brought in money for an extremely small investment), but I don't think they can pull that same trick twice.

No, it certainly shouldn't be that plainly obvious. Of course, sticking it with almost identical interiors didn't help either. I don't think the interiors should be shared at all except for some of the underlying features like dash supports and seat frames, and maybe some functional items like rearviews mirrors.

[FordFanForEver]

No, it certainly shouldn't be that plainly obvious. Of course, sticking it with almost identical interiors didn't help either. I don't think the interiors should be shared at all except for some of the underlying features like dash supports and seat frames, and maybe some functional items like rearviews mirrors.

 

So the Expy and Navi will have different sheet metal? Sounds awesome! I remember the Mark Lt pickup truck.... I believe it competed with Cadillac's version of the Avalanche... Escalade EXT I think it was called? Actually, I thought I read somewhere that the Platinum F150 is a replacement for the Mark LT although the Mark LT is still in production for the Mexican market.

[NickF1011]

So the Expy and Navi will have different sheet metal? Sounds awesome! I remember the Mark Lt pickup truck.... I believe it competed with Cadillac's version of the Avalanche... Escalade EXT I think it was called? Actually, I thought I read somewhere that the Platinum F150 is a replacement for the Mark LT although the Mark LT is still in production for the Mexican market.

Unknown yet how different the next Expy and Nav will be. I suspect they will be more differentiated than they are now, but not as differentiated as the other Ford/Lincoln siblings.

 

Not sure if the Mexican Mark LT is still around now or not. That Mark LT wasn't quite the same as the one sold here either. Confusing.

[jasonj80]

 

Not sure if the Mexican Mark LT is still around now or not. That Mark LT wasn't quite the same as the one sold here either. Confusing.

 

It is still around - Its basically the F-150 Platinum. I think they still make the short bed ones in Dearborn.

[bzcat]

If Navigator comes back, I really don't see how Ford can justify a completely unique exterior and interior based on the low volume. I think it will share the greenhouse of Expedition and most of the interior for sure. Different sheet metal below the belt line is possible but I'm leaning towards just a different front clip.

[rmc523]

If Navigator comes back, I really don't see how Ford can justify a completely unique exterior and interior based on the low volume. I think it will share the greenhouse of Expedition and most of the interior for sure. Different sheet metal below the belt line is possible but I'm leaning towards just a different front clip.

 

That very well may be - that approach works fine for the Escalade. It just needs to be done better than the current version (i.e. better looking).

[Edstock]

FWIW:

 

Today, I was behind a car-carrier delivering some Escapes to Kennedy Ford in Oakville. One of the vehicles on the carrier was completely covered in white cloth with small transparent window openings, and no logos on the very nice wheels. Escape-size.

 

My guess is that it's the MKC and it's for a dealer presentation. KF is not a Lincoln dealer, but they received two very early or pre-prod MKZ's to prep back 8 months ago, so maybe this is the same.

[papilgee4evaeva]

As long as it's not different sheet metal for the sake of different sheet metal, or you end up with some abomination like the QX56.

 

The current QX56 is actually an entirely different vehicle -- a rebadged Nissan Patrol. No longer a reskinned Armada. (I just found this out recently)

[NickF1011]

If Navigator comes back, I really don't see how Ford can justify a completely unique exterior and interior based on the low volume. I think it will share the greenhouse of Expedition and most of the interior for sure. Different sheet metal below the belt line is possible but I'm leaning towards just a different front clip.

And don't you think that part of the reason it is currently so low volume is due to the lack of updates and unique components? I have no doubt that it will at least have a unique interior. They can manage it for every other Lincoln. There would be no excuse for the Navigator to be any different. If they tried to re-use the Expedition interior, it would get SHREDDED in the media. Now, with both vehicles apparently moving back to an F-150 base, I would see little reason that the Expedition couldn't share almost all of its interior with the F-150 to save money though.

[rmc523]

And don't you think that part of the reason it is currently so low volume is due to the lack of updates and unique components? I have no doubt that it will at least have a unique interior. They can manage it for every other Lincoln. There would be no excuse for the Navigator to be any different. If they tried to re-use the Expedition interior, it would get SHREDDED in the media. Now, with both vehicles apparently moving back to an F-150 base, I would see little reason that the Expedition couldn't share almost all of its interior with the F-150 to save money though.

 

Agreed, the Navigator MUST have a unique interior to have a chance at success. But the Expy, yeah, I won't be surprised to see them share as much as possible with the F-150, inside and out.

Edited July 11, 2013 by rmc523

[92merc]

Agreed, it MUST have a unique interior to have a chance at success. But the Expy, yeah, I won't be surprised to see them share as much as possible with the F-150, inside and out.

Yeah, because the GM's have a totally unique interior. NOT! The last Suburban LTZ I drove had a nearly identical interior to the trucks. Admittedly though, it's been 4 years since I did drive it. Only because I had to for work.

[fordmantpw]

Yeah, because the GM's have a totally unique interior. NOT! The last Suburban LTZ I drove had a nearly identical interior to the trucks. Admittedly though, it's been 4 years since I did drive it. Only because I had to for work.

 

He's talking about the Navi needing a unique interior, not the Expy. The Navi CANNOT share an interior with the F150.

[92merc]

He's talking about the Navi needing a unique interior, not the Expy. The Navi CANNOT share an interior with the F150.

Ahhh, now that I can understand. But seriously, how many Navi's will be sold once Ford comes out with the MCExplorer? I'm betting the Navi sales will continue to dip. Unless Lincoln can come up with a good product AND make a profit, it's to the point of dumping the product.

[NickF1011]

Ahhh, now that I can understand. But seriously, how many Navi's will be sold once Ford comes out with the MCExplorer? I'm betting the Navi sales will continue to dip. Unless Lincoln can come up with a good product AND make a profit, it's to the point of dumping the product.

I dunno. At the price point the Navigator can come in at, they really don't have to sell a ton of them to see a return on their investment. People who do a lot of towing will also not be addressed fully by the MKExplorer.

 

Then there is also the livery market, one place the Navigator does still have some decent appeal.

[rmc523]

Yeah, because the GM's have a totally unique interior. NOT! The last Suburban LTZ I drove had a nearly identical interior to the trucks. Admittedly though, it's been 4 years since I did drive it. Only because I had to for work.

 

Yeah, I was talking about the Navigator with that sentence, saying it needs a unique interior compared to the Expy/F-150. Sorry for the confusion.

 

I wouldn't be surprised to see the Expy and F-150 to share interiors, nor do I really have a problem with it with how nice the F-150 has become. As for the exterior, I wouldn't be surprised to see the Expy and F-150 share a front clip too (like the original), however, this I could see going either way (sharing or not sharing front clips).

[PREMiERdrum]

It would be a huge step up if the current Navigator shared interiors with the current F-150. Just sayin'.

[fordmantpw]

It would be a huge step up if the current Navigator shared interiors with the current F-150. Just sayin'.

 

Ain't that the truth! The Platinum F150 is pretty darn luxurious!

[SoonerLS]

I wouldn't be surprised to see the Expy and F-150 to share interiors, nor do I really have a problem with it with how nice the F-150 has become. As for the exterior, I wouldn't be surprised to see the Expy and F-150 share a front clip too (like the original), however, this I could see going either way (sharing or not sharing front clips).

I don't particularly see any reason for the Expedition to differ at all from the F-Series forward of the C-pillar. The more commonality they can get, the better it is for Ford, and, at least in theory, for the consumer, as it's less expense that has to be passed along in the sales price.

[rmc523]

I don't particularly see any reason for the Expedition to differ at all from the F-Series forward of the C-pillar. The more commonality they can get, the better it is for Ford, and, at least in theory, for the consumer, as it's less expense that has to be passed along in the sales price.

 

I'm right there with you - I've said several times in the past that I could definitely see them merging the two again as much as possible, sharing front clips, interiors, etc. in addition to powertrains. That sort of move could in theory open up more space for the Navigator's design, since in theory with the Expy looking like the F-150, you won't have to worry about the Expy/Navi looking too similar.

 

Guess we'll just have to wait and see.