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Guest Message by DevFuse

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Ford Motor Company June 2013 Sales

up +13%

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120 replies to this topic

#41 OFFLINE   RichardJensen

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 10:41 AM

They may think they took sales from Ford, but a decade of experience with blowout sales suggests that they've mostly taken sales away from themselves (viz: "Keep America Rolling" in 2001/02 and Employee pricing in 2008.)


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#42 OFFLINE   2005Explorer

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 10:57 AM

This is just a list of BOF SUVs. I didn't include GL because it is unibody, the same reason I also didn't include GM's Lambda triplets.

 

But we can all agree that there is a lot of upside for Expedition and Navigator if Ford is willing to invest a little money in it.

 

I don't know how much upside there is because GM is coming with all new full size SUVs in a few months.  Considering Ford has never really had much of a chance against GM in this market it might be better to just pull out then invest tons of money to try and match the class leading GM SUVs.  Sometimes it is better to focus on your strengths and just let GM have this dying market.


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#43 OFFLINE   akirby

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 11:41 AM

I don't know how much upside there is because GM is coming with all new full size SUVs in a few months.  Considering Ford has never really had much of a chance against GM in this market it might be better to just pull out then invest tons of money to try and match the class leading GM SUVs.  Sometimes it is better to focus on your strengths and just let GM have this dying market.

 

You don't have to be #1 in sales to make money.



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#44 OFFLINE   FordFanForEver

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 12:24 PM

GM splits Tahoe and Suburban, so it logically follows that they would split Yukon and Yukon XL.  To my knowledge Expedition has never been split.

 

True.  I was just asking if we have any clue if Ford sells more El or regular Expy's.


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#45 OFFLINE   FordFanForEver

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 12:27 PM

Taurus is never advertised anywhere near as the other Ford Products are, but still does well each month. In June 2013, Taurus (not including the 700 + police units) easily outsold the Buick LaCross, Chrysler 300, Kia Cadenza and the heavily advertised Toyota Avalon! I own a 2013 Taurus...thank you very much!

 

I still read articles from auto critics who say, "While the Taurus is not selling like it use too" LOL! The Taurus use to be a mid size sedan and now it is a full size sedan!  For a large sedan, the Taurus is selling well and like you said, Ford doesn't advertise it like they do the F150, Escape, Fusion, Edge and Explorer. I've always liked the Taurus and still like it better than the current Fusion.


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#46 OFFLINE   papilgee4evaeva

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 12:40 PM

True.  I was just asking if we have any clue if Ford sells more El or regular Expy's.

 

If my own four eyes are to be trusted (which they might not be all of the time), I would say the regular Expy has sold more.

 

I still read articles from auto critics who say, "While the Taurus is not selling like it use too" LOL! The Taurus use to be a mid size sedan and now it is a full size sedan!  For a large sedan, the Taurus is selling well and like you said, Ford doesn't advertise it like they do the F150, Escape, Fusion, Edge and Explorer. I've always liked the Taurus and still like it better than the current Fusion.

 

Those auto critics disingenuously neglect to mention that the old midsize Taurus was the quintessential fleet queen.


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#47 OFFLINE   PREMiERdrum

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 02:01 PM

Our fair city took delivery of two of these beauties in June!
 
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Edited by PREMiERdrum, 04 July 2013 - 02:03 PM.

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#48 OFFLINE   aneekr

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 02:10 PM

I still read articles from auto critics who say, "While the Taurus is not selling like it use too" LOL! The Taurus use to be a mid size sedan and now it is a full size sedan!  For a large sedan, the Taurus is selling well and like you said, Ford doesn't advertise it like they do the F150, Escape, Fusion, Edge and Explorer. I've always liked the Taurus and still like it better than the current Fusion.

 

While advertisements for the current Taurus may not be substantial, sales incentives are. According to TrueCar, last month the Taurus recorded the largest discounts as a percentage of MSRP of any model in the large sedan category. Other Fords that topped their respective categories were E-Series, Focus, Edge, and Mustang.

 

Ford's incentives last month were very competitive, so the favorable sales results come as no surprise. 


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#49 OFFLINE   jpd80

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 02:58 PM

They may think they took sales from Ford, but a decade of experience with blowout sales suggests that they've mostly taken sales away from themselves (viz: "Keep America Rolling" in 2001/02 and Employee pricing in 2008.)

LOL, clearing down a mountain of inventory with discounted leases to customers who wouldn't otherwise be interested.

 

We all know that GM's culture hasn't changed but worse than that, it has bred a culture in GM buyers through pst

experience to hold off and wait for big cash incentives or killer lease deals, something that will be hard for them to break.

 

The GM-o-philes conveniently point their fingers at Ford's 32% fleet sales while GM has been down around 27%

but when asked how come Ford NA gets 10% return on revenue while GMNA  is back at 7.4% there's no reply....

 

This preoccupation that fleet sales are bad is only predicated by GM when it suits them and as you said in an earlier post,

Ford insisting that daily rental companies buy vehicles more aligned with retail volume has a lot to do with maintaining profit

and future resale values. Something that GM and its fleet dumping culture doesn't get....


Edited by jpd80, 04 July 2013 - 03:00 PM.


#50 OFFLINE   jpd80

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 03:08 PM

If my own four eyes are to be trusted (which they might not be all of the time), I would say the regular Expy has sold more.

 

 

Those auto critics disingenuously neglect to mention that the old midsize Taurus was the quintessential fleet queen.

Exactly, Ford didn't bat an eyelid closing down Atlanta even though it was producing over 200,000 a year...

 

As I mentioned above, selling to fleets is acceptable providing that they buy products that align with retail

customers and at similar prices. Maintaining profit and resale values is key to the equation and the best way

to accomplish that is to have good products that people want to buy or rent...


Edited by jpd80, 04 July 2013 - 03:08 PM.


#51 OFFLINE   2005Explorer

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 07:46 PM

 
You don't have to be #1 in sales to make money.

True, but the Expedition and Navigator have always sort of been afterthoughts and Ford never really had their heart in this market like GM does. The first generation was pretty much just a shortened and enclosed F-150 which is probably what they will try again if they stay in this market. They appeared pretty serious with the second generation when it came out in 2003, but it never really caught on and as time went on they sort of just put the vehicle on the back burner.

Sure you don't have to be #1 to make money, but you do need to be competitive. Unless the next gen F-150 is radically different then today's I am not sure how well it will morph into an SUV. I guess we will see what happens, but generally speaking Ford is much more successful in other product categories and I only see the full size market getting smaller. Loyal Ford buyers will just move to an Explorer if they don't need the towing and the few that do would be fine either in a GM SUV or a SuperCrew F-150.

Can they make some money off a new Expedition/Navigator program? Probably, but if the market continues to shrink and GM continues to invest in this market like they always have I'd say it gets harder and harder to worry about this segment. They pulled the plug on the mini-vans and small trucks and it would not surprise me to see the plug pulled on these at some point.

Edited by 2005Explorer, 04 July 2013 - 07:48 PM.

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#52 OFFLINE   ZanatWork

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 07:58 PM

The Expeditions have always been competitive, even if the engine tech languished a bit.  They really got the irs dialed in for 2007 (2008?), and even the first-gen models won some comparos.  They've always tended to ride better and have better interiors because...the competition was GM.


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#53 OFFLINE   PREMiERdrum

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 07:58 PM

True, but the Expedition and Navigator have always sort of been afterthoughts and Ford never really had their heart in this market like GM does. The first generation was pretty much just a shortened and enclosed F-150 which is probably what they will try again if they stay in this market. They appeared pretty serious with the second generation when it came out in 2003, but it never really caught on and as time went on they sort of just put the vehicle on the back burner.

Sure you don't have to be #1 to make money, but you do need to be competitive. Unless the next gen F-150 is radically different then today's I am not sure how well it will morph into an SUV. I guess we will see what happens, but generally speaking Ford is much more successful in other product categories and I only see the full size market getting smaller. Loyal Ford buyers will just move to an Explorer if they don't need the towing and the few that do would be fine either in a GM SUV or a SuperCrew F-150.

Can they make some money off a new Expedition/Navigator program? Probably, but if the market continues to shrink and GM continues to invest in this market like they always have I'd say it gets harder and harder to worry about this segment. They pulled the plug on the mini-vans and small trucks and it would not surprise me to see the plug pulled on these at some point.

 

Keep in mind: Ford didn't give the greenlight to the new Expedition/Navigator program until they got intel on the new GM K2 SUVs.


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#54 OFFLINE   2005Explorer

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 09:03 PM

 
Keep in mind: Ford didn't give the greenlight to the new Expedition/Navigator program until they got intel on the new GM K2 SUVs.
Well I'd say the next generation Expedition is still somewhat of a mystery. I've heard a lot about what people think it's going to be, but not much confirmation. If you have some I'd love to read it.

Edit: Ok I found some info saying its coming sometime in 2015. While looking I found this...

http://articles.chic...s-truck-segment

"The F-series, which has been the best-selling vehicle in the
United States for 30 years, and sport-utility derivatives such
as the Expedition account for more than 90 percent of Ford's
global profit, according to Morgan Stanley auto analyst Adam
Jonas."

90%?!?! Is that true?

Edited by 2005Explorer, 04 July 2013 - 09:24 PM.

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#55 OFFLINE   PREMiERdrum

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 09:26 PM

Well I'd say the next generation Expedition is still somewhat of a mystery. I've heard a lot about what people think it's going to be, but not much confirmation. If you have some I'd love to read it.

Edit: Ok I found some info saying its coming sometime in 2015. While looking I found this...

http://articles.chic...s-truck-segment

"The F-series, which has been the best-selling vehicle in the
United States for 30 years, and sport-utility derivatives such
as the Expedition account for more than 90 percent of Ford's
global profit, according to Morgan Stanley auto analyst Adam
Jonas."

90%?!?! Is that true?

 

I believe it comes after 2015, likely 2016. Much more aligned with F-150 than currently, though the IRS should be staying.

 

As for 90%... 10 years ago, yes.


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#56 OFFLINE   jpd80

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 10:22 PM

I believe it comes after 2015, likely 2016. Much more aligned with F-150 than currently, though the IRS should be staying.

 

As for 90%... 10 years ago, yes.

How much  profit each quarter would be lost without 200K to 240K F Trucks.

Maybe not 90% of FNA's profit but I'd imagine that a product line that has both

a high average transaction price and high annual sales has to be a major profit earner


Edited by jpd80, 04 July 2013 - 10:26 PM.


#57 OFFLINE   SoonerLS

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 11:11 PM

They pulled the plug on the mini-vans and small trucks and it would not surprise me to see the plug pulled on these at some point.

It wouldn't be completely shocking, but neither the minivans nor the Ranger were what Expedition and Navigator are (reportedly) becoming--essentially, incremental costs on Ford's best selling and most profitable line. IMHO, the move back to the F-Series platform was a last-ditch effort by someone in Ford/Lincoln to save them; if that plan hadn't been approved, I think they'd be winding down production already.

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#58 OFFLINE   akirby

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 11:39 PM

The first generation was pretty much just a shortened and enclosed F-150 which is probably what they will try again if they stay in this market.

 

As opposed to the Tahoe and Yukon that were just shortened and enclosed Silverados and Sierras?

 

Ford gave the expedition a unique suspension and interior which is far more than GM did although it never paid off in huge sales.



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#59 OFFLINE   fordmantpw

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 03:24 PM

As opposed to the Tahoe and Yukon that were just shortened and enclosed Silverados and Sierras?

 

Ford gave the expedition a unique suspension and interior which is far more than GM did although it never paid off in huge sales.

 

It did in the first gen.  IIRC, the '97 (or was it '98?) Expedition led in sales for the full-size SUV category and continued that for several years.  I'm too lazy to look up stats now.  :)


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#60 OFFLINE   aneekr

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 04:20 PM

 I'm too lazy to look up stats now.   :)

 

No worries, fordmantpw - here are the sales figures for Ford Expedition in the U.S. between 1998 and 2003:

  • 1998     225,703
  • 1999     233,125
  • 2000     213,483
  • 2001     178,045
  • 2002     163,454
  • 2003     181,547

And for Chevrolet Tahoe & GMC Yukon (from L to R - Tahoe, Yukon, Total Tahoe + Yukon):

  • 1998    133,235     49,355     182,590
  • 1999    122,213     53,280     175,493
  • 2000    149,834     56,297     206,131
  • 2001    202,319     77,254     279,573
  • 2002    209,767     76,488     286,255
  • 2003    199,065     86,238     285,303

You are correct - Expedition had a commanding lead in its market segment in 1998 and 1999, and still exceeded the total sales of Tahoe & Yukon combined in 2000 (but by a smaller margin). In 2001, GM took the sales crown.


Edited by aneekr, 06 July 2013 - 09:31 PM.

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