silvrsvt Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 In the Camaro's defense, has the refreshed model hit dealer lots yet? People may be waiting on that. Its barely different than the current car...heck the 2013 Mustang had more of refresh IMO then it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papilgee4evaeva Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 Its barely different than the current car...heck the 2013 Mustang had more of refresh IMO then it. C'mon! The Prelude taillights didn't just utterly captivate you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
03 LS Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 Does anyone think that MKZ has a wee bit more to give in terms of sales?Perhaps that 4,000 figure could creep up a little to 4,500? In the Lincoln thread, the way I defined (was hoping for) "Lincoln Success" was, "I'm hoping, by this time next year, MKZ+MKC sales could be around 8000/month, with the rest 4 providing ~4000/m." So, to me, MKZ is right where it's supposed to be. If it can sustain >4000/month, Lincoln will be more successful than I expected, as I still think MKC will be Lincoln's volume leader after its introduction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2005Explorer Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 With the Flex down to 1,808 and the MKT at 453 one has to wonder how many more years they will keep these around. Is 2013 the last year for them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 With the Flex down to 1,808 and the MKT at 453 one has to wonder how many more years they will keep these around. Is 2013 the last year for them? Will soldier on through the '14 MY, but I don't see much hope for them beyond that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 (edited) Outside of the Explorer, the D3 platform cars had a disappointing month.... Oh gawd....not this again..... Edited May 2, 2013 by twintornados Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noah Harbinger Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 I'm going to go with George Pipas' response to that: "At Ford, every day is a selling day". There has got to be a better way to adjust sales for year-over-year comparison than "selling days". Someone who has access to daily sales figures nationwide over a number of years has probably spent the time to make a model that reflects modern, real-world sales rates. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausrutherford Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 Most of D3 is 1-2 years away from the end of its life cycle...so why expect much? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 Oh gawd....not this again..... Disappointing vs bad are two different things for fucks sake I bought one of those damn D3 based products in April! LOL It would have been nice to see sales up a little bit or flat...vs what the rest of the Ford lineup is doing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grbeck Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 You're avoiding the issue, ATS sales were around 2700, where are all the fans for that car????? IMO, GM has listened to the fans, given them a great RWD/AWD car and now they don't want to pay... Either they are like the Panther fans, who profess their undying devotion to the cars but only want to buy them used, or they really wanted something like the ATS, but the wife/significant other/partner said, "I want a BMW, not a Cadillac. What will our friends driving a (BMW/Mercedes/Audi) think?". I like the ATS, but the bottom line is that, if you are going to imitate another vehicle (particulalry a well-established market leader), most people will simply decide to buy the real thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 I like the ATS, but the bottom line is that, if you are going to imitate another vehicle (particulalry a well-established market leader), most people will simply decide to buy the real thing. Unless that car has a huge compelling reason over the established market leader to be bought, which the ATS does not have Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 Unless that car has a huge compelling reason over the established market leader to be bought, which the ATS does not have It does have one significant one: price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 Is the ATS that much cheaper than a BMW 3? Especially on lease? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 Is the ATS that much cheaper than a BMW 3? Especially on lease? well buying out right, a well loaded ATS vs a 330 is about 8K cheaper according to True Delta. no clue as to what the leasing rates are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grbeck Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 Every review I've read has panned the base engine in the ATS (while praising the chassis), so I would imagine you have to buy the upgraded drivetrain to get a vehicle that is really competitive in its class. That has to be figured into any price comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 Every review I've read has panned the base engine in the ATS (while praising the chassis), so I would imagine you have to buy the upgraded drivetrain to get a vehicle that is really competitive in its class. That has to be figured into any price comparison. Th Every review I've read has panned the base engine in the ATS (while praising the chassis), so I would imagine you have to buy the upgraded drivetrain to get a vehicle that is really competitive in its class. That has to be figured into any price comparison. The 270hp ATS turbo doesn't perform that well compared to the BMW 240hp turbo. Not sure if it's weight, or something else. 0-60 comparo times are almost a second off from BMW. Price and subjective looks are the only reason to pick an ATS over the BMW if you are looking at best irrespecitve if it's domestic or not. And maybe ownership costs after warranty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papilgee4evaeva Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 The 270hp ATS turbo doesn't perform that well compared to the BMW 240hp turbo. Not sure if it's weight, or something else. 0-60 comparo times are almost a second off from BMW. Price and subjective looks are the only reason to pick an ATS over the BMW if you are looking at best irrespecitve if it's domestic or not. And maybe ownership costs after warranty. As far as weight, the two cars are extremely close. Many believe it's the ATS's gearing that makes it slower. Or the claim that the 328i is grossly underrated. Or both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 As far as weight, the two cars are extremely close. Many believe it's the ATS's gearing that makes it slower. Or the claim that the 328i is grossly underrated. Or both. I also believe the ATS fuel mileage in combined driving is about 22mpg to BMW's 26mpg. Hard to beat BMW when you take it head on. Laguna Seca Mustang probably came the closest when taking on BMW M3 V8. ATS is nice RWD luxury performance vehicle for the price, but not in BMW's league otherwise. Now to see what the new CTS can do. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NLPRacing Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 (edited) Camaro 7949 (-17.43%)Mustang 7751 (-0.6%) I think the Mustang's price is hurting it more than anything. Don't get me wrong, I think it's a great value for what you get. But, a GT starts over $30K and when you add a few options, you can get up to $40K pretty easy. It wasn't that long ago when it was pretty hard to option a GT up to $30K. I know, I know, the V6 Mustang has more HP than the older GT's, blah, blah, blah. It's a great car and a great value as well, but it's still a V6. For me, a Mustang should have a V8 and if you want one, it's going to cost you a lot. I still don't get why people are buying the Camaro. Bias aside, it looks okay on the outside I guess, but that interior, high belt line & poor outward visibility would kill it for me. Edited May 2, 2013 by NLPRacing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANTAUS Posted May 2, 2013 Author Share Posted May 2, 2013 I would agree with that. I'm not impressed with the Camaro and just its bath tub feeling and horrible sight lines is enough. I was able to sway 2 people into purchasing a Mustang instead. I just told them THAT fact and when they sat in it, they found it uncomfortable. I just helped plant the "seeds" on that view :-) I have one friend that bought the most cheapest of the GT, it has nothing BUT having the V8. Its his midlife crisis and he drives 5MPH under the speed limit. Usually the wife or I have to take it and drive it like it's ment to be driven. I know he paid $32K for it but that goes on where I and others have been stating for awhile. It's time for Ford to venture into the FWD Coupe market $16-28K, the Mustang is just growing in price and performance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 I think the Mustang's price is hurting it more than anything. Don't get me wrong, I think it's a great value for what you get. But, a GT starts over $30K and when you add a few options, you can get up to $40Kretty easy. It wasn't that long ago when it was pretty hard to option a GT up to $30K. I know, I know, the V6 Mustang has more HP than the older GT's, blah, blah, blah. It's a great car and a great value as well, but it's still a V6. For me, a Mustang should have a V8 and if you want one, it's going to cost you a lot. The 2009 Mustang saw a price bump, but in all honesty, you were already paying that amount if you got a loaded GT anyways. My GT with nearly everything but Shaker 1000 and Automatic was 29K...the new Mustang has a hell of alot more options and a nicer interior than my GT ever will The price difference between a GT Premium and the Camaro SS is $550 bucks in the Camaros favor... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurtisH Posted May 3, 2013 Share Posted May 3, 2013 (edited) It wasn't that long ago when it was pretty hard to option a GT up to $30K. What do you mean by "not that long ago". My 05 GT listed for $28,001. It's a standard trim, not the Premium. You could exceed $30,000 on the 05 models and that was 8 years ago. Edited May 3, 2013 by CurtisH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papilgee4evaeva Posted May 3, 2013 Share Posted May 3, 2013 (edited) What do you mean by "not that long ago". My 05 GT listed for $28,001. It's a standard trim, not the Premium. You could exceed $30,000 on the 05 models and that was 8 years ago. So, evidently, longer than 8 years ago. Edited May 3, 2013 by papilgee4evaeva 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NLPRacing Posted May 3, 2013 Share Posted May 3, 2013 What do you mean by "not that long ago". My 05 GT listed for $28,001. It's a standard trim, not the Premium. You could exceed $30,000 on the 05 models and that was 8 years ago. I guess my point was, you could go to the Ford dealer prior to 2009 and get a pretty well loaded GT for less than $30K whereas the 13 GT starts at $30K. I was looking online at used Mustangs and at CarMax, they had several Boss Mustangs with low miles for less than $40K and some 2011 and newer GT500's for around $45K. If I was in the market for a new Mustang, I would probably look at a used Boss or GT500 before I would buy a new GT or wait until the next gen comes out. I'm probably not the only one which could explain the lower Mustang sales. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hydro Posted May 4, 2013 Share Posted May 4, 2013 (edited) I hear you NLP, I was also tinkering online and couldn't build a decent equipped 5.0 for under 36k. That's a lot of cash for a pony car. I wanted a fun "weekend" car and after building one, it doesn't look like it will happen with a new car. It's strange because I can build a full option Titanium Fusion for 34k. I would think the Mustang is a less expensive "easier" car to build at the factory :shrug: Edited May 4, 2013 by Hydro 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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