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1931 replies to this topic

#1921 OFFLINE   Bob Rosadini

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Posted 22 April 2017 - 07:42 PM

We've been over this topic several times with people running fleets, Some F750 are technically  Class 8

but just not strong enough to match the competition. Heck, F750 sales are so low in Comparison to F650

that the F750 is not competitive with the engines and drive line Ford is using.....

 

The Ford Cargo used in Europe is a better example of what's needed to compete at that level

but I doubt that Ford would consider re-immersing itself back into Class 8......

 

The other point I was making was that of the 81,000 odd trucks sold last month,

only 9,500 were F450 to F750 and that F150, F250 and F350 accounted for

more than 71,000 of those sales. That probably colors Ford view on how much

engine capacity Ford needs and  potential sales of a 7.0 V8 gasoline engine.

IMO the question is just how many incremental sales could Ford get with a bigger gasoline option as well as an alternative diesel to the Power Stroke in particular in class 7.  750 sales are virtually non-existent.  I have not seen a 33,000 lb 750 in dealer inventory in all of the truck sales mags-or shouid I say at least in the two that are readily published here in NE.  The class 6 numbers are good now but wait till GM starts to really push the Isuzu class 6 trucks









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#1922 OFFLINE   Sevensecondsuv

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Posted 22 April 2017 - 09:37 PM

The article about the 7.0 quoted an annual production of 125,000 units. Anyone know what 6.8 production currently is? Does E-series plus, say, 50% (?) of F-450 thru F-750 equal approximately​ 125,000 annually? Or does that production number seem to indicate that the new engine will be more than strictly a 6.8 replacement and find way into additional products (250/350 pickups, mustang)?

Edited by Sevensecondsuv, 22 April 2017 - 09:39 PM.


#1923 OFFLINE   jpd80

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Posted 22 April 2017 - 09:51 PM

IMO the question is just how many incremental sales could Ford get with a bigger gasoline option as well as an alternative diesel to the Power Stroke in particular in class 7.  750 sales are virtually non-existent.  I have not seen a 33,000 lb 750 in dealer inventory in all of the truck sales mags-or shouid I say at least in the two that are readily published here in NE.  The class 6 numbers are good now but wait till GM starts to really push the Isuzu class 6 trucks

The FTR is a cab over class 6 fitted with a 5.2 liter turbocharged I-4 diesel, the F650 is a 6.8 V10 gasoline Truck.

It will be interesting to see what interaction there is between those two vehicle types...



#1924 OFFLINE   jpd80

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Posted 22 April 2017 - 11:01 PM

The article about the 7.0 quoted an annual production of 125,000 units. Anyone know what 6.8 production currently is? Does E-series plus, say, 50% (?) of F-450 thru F-750 equal approximately​ 125,000 annually? Or does that production number seem to indicate that the new engine will be more than strictly a 6.8 replacement and find way into additional products (250/350 pickups, mustang)?

It looks like the 6.8 is offered only in F550 and up, so I guess the plan will be to add the 7.0 to more SDs.

So maybe the plan is in a slightly different direction to what we think....but then that adds another dilemma

for Ford...how to add even more SD production.

 

Yeah, If Ford wants to make more than a token gesture in F750, it needs something more than the engines

and transmissions currently on offer.... are buy ins form someone like Cummins a possible option in Class 7 / 8?

 

2016 Ford Truck Sales - USA

 

Class 4................36,276  (26,414)

Class 5................45,290  (44,569)

Class 6................22,934  (14,805)

Class 7..................1,746  (2,770)

Class 8.....................111   (86)

Total..................106,357   (88,644)

 

 

Total F Series...820,799  (780,354)

Class 2 & 3.......614,442  (691,710)

 

(Remembering that F150 is Class 2a...and approx 400K sales)

 

and then there's E Series vans:...........54,245  (50,541)


Edited by jpd80, 22 April 2017 - 11:35 PM.


#1925 ONLINE   Joe771476

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 05:09 PM


I just read that originally Bluebird was using a GM 8.1L engine for propane conversion. Then GM called one day and said they would no longer be supplying the engine. So Bluebird went to Ford. I hope Ford doesn't make that same phone call. Check out this video:





#1926 OFFLINE   7Mary3

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 05:32 PM

I just read that originally Bluebird was using a GM 8.1L engine for propane conversion. Then GM called one day and said they would no longer be supplying the engine. So Bluebird went to Ford. I hope Ford doesn't make that same phone call. Check out this video:



 

I am afraid Ford already has.  But that does not mean there will not be a replacement eventually.   


Edited by 7Mary3, 24 April 2017 - 05:33 PM.


#1927 OFFLINE   jpd80

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 07:32 PM

The good part is that end users like Bluebird will now know that Ford has a plan beyond the 6.8 V10.



#1928 OFFLINE   theoldwizard

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Posted Yesterday, 03:45 AM

Ford never did the conversion.  It was done by third parties, most notably Roush.



#1929 OFFLINE   lfeg

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Posted Yesterday, 05:35 AM

Ford never did the conversion.  It was done by third parties, most notably Roush.

And that is a big issue. Today's fleet buyers seem to be moving to wanting a turnkey solution to fuel choice. The fleet decides what fuel to use, and then buys a package with sole source responsibility for chassis and drivetrain.



#1930 OFFLINE   MY93SHO

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Posted Yesterday, 07:37 AM

Ford ran a commercial truck commercial during Deadliest Catch last night.

 

I think that's the first time I've seen a commercial truck specific ad on tv.



#1931 OFFLINE   theoldwizard

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Posted Today, 08:05 AM

And that is a big issue. Today's fleet buyers seem to be moving to wanting a turnkey solution to fuel choice. 

Never going to happen from Ford !  "Been there, done that !"



#1932 OFFLINE   Bob Rosadini

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Posted Today, 12:07 PM

Never going to happen from Ford !  "Been there, done that !"

Well if diesel is loosing favor because of a variety of reasons, and the "green" factor says LPG, CNG, LNG are potential options, does that say -"either get with the program" or continue to lose sales to your competitors who DO provide the turn key approach.

 

I recognize you can't be all things to all customers but sooner or later your lost sales start to hurt you from an economy of scale.  

 

Again key issue- will gaseous fuel sales gain in popularity?  If they do,   Ford is missing that boat-if they don't I guess it was the right decision to not go after the business.  If Ford is building engines that are modified internally to qualify for gaseous conversion, how costly is it to carry through with the rest of the mods as the truck is going down the line?  They did it before right?










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