hwyman3 Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 . What you seem to have lost in the translation is that Ford would make two castings for the case...one for Modular and one for Powerstroke. I found a picture of the Scorpion / 6R140 installed in a Pierce Fire Co firetruck - bellhousing sure looks like SAE standard to me...thoughts?? ADD ON: Found a .pdf of the 6R140 specs...doesn't specifically say SAE standard bellhousing, but if you look at the pictures in the .pdf, it all looks like it is SAE standard. http://www.autonews.com/assets/PDF/CA67871128.PDF In that installation in the Pierce, with the Scorpion, isn't the 6R140 transmission the only option? I don't believe Pierce is installing the Scorpion with an Allison transmission. I'm not sure if that is due to the bell housing or if it is just the agreement between Ford and Pierce. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevensecondsuv Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 . A ZF-6 would not handle the power the Scorpion puts out....everything i have read indicates that...if all of your other sources are Wikipedia based, don't believe them, Wikipedia can be edited by users and since there is little info to begin with, I am suspect that Wikipedia is a good source of info in this case. Everything I have looked at indicates that the bellhousing is SAE standard. I wasn't trying to say a ZF-6 would handle it; I was merely implying that the first order of business in evaluating a trans swap is "do the bellhousing patterns match?" If thats not an issue with a ZF, then we'd know the scorpion has a modular bell. But yes, if I was going to swap a manual behind a scorpion, I'd want something more stout than a ZF-6. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevensecondsuv Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 Well.....it turns out we're both right... or wrong lol. Apparently the scorpion (and 6.0 and 6.4 before it) has a bell that doesn't match anything (not the right number of holes for SAE supposedly even though it is roundish) and Ford just uses "rear engine covers" (i.e. adaptor plates) to make it fit whatever trans they want. Like this (salvage part): https://www.ebay.com/i/131856993440?chn=ps&ul_ref=http%253A%252F%252Frover.ebay.com%252Frover%252F1%252F711-117182-37290-0%252F2%253Fmpre%253Dhttps%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.ebay.com%25252Fi%25252F131856993440%25253Fchn%25253Dps%2526itemid%253D131856993440%2526targetid%253D405043607004%2526device%253Dm%2526adtype%253Dpla%2526googleloc%253D9021854%2526poi%253D%2526campaignid%253D962146729%2526adgroupid%253D46733577494%2526rlsatarget%253Dpla-405043607004%2526abcId%253D1129816%2526merchantid%253D101510452%2526gclid%253DEAIaIQobChMIpdeq1uu02AIVFrjACh01XwhaEAQYASABEgLHFvD_BwE%2526srcrot%253D711-117182-37290-0%2526rvr_id%253D1405464976031 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 (edited) Well.....it turns out we're both right... or wrong lol. Apparently the scorpion (and 6.0 and 6.4 before it) has a bell that doesn't match anything (not the right number of holes for SAE supposedly even though it is roundish) and Ford just uses "rear engine covers" (i.e. adaptor plates) to make it fit whatever trans they want. Like this (salvage part): . Interesting setup and it would make the 6R140 available for use by "third party" manufacturers that may want the 6R140 and not an Allison or Eaton transmission. It makes it more surprising that Ford doesn't utilize their own transmission in the Cargo line in other parts of the world. Edited December 31, 2017 by twintornados Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 In that installation in the Pierce, with the Scorpion, isn't the 6R140 transmission the only option? I don't believe Pierce is installing the Scorpion with an Allison transmission. I'm not sure if that is due to the bell housing or if it is just the agreement between Ford and Pierce. If you go to Pierce's website you will see that in the Saber, engine choices are Power Stroke or Cummins L9 and trans choices are Torqueshift or Allison EV3000. My guess is there is no option in that you pick one power train or the other- Ford/Ford or Cummins/ Allison. The Ford option is Pierce's answer for departments looking for least cost piece. Throwback to the old days when the Super Duty powered C-900 Ford was the most popular "bang for the buck" commercial fire chassis made. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hwyman3 Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 If you go to Pierce's website you will see that in the Saber, engine choices are Power Stroke or Cummins L9 and trans choices are Torqueshift or Allison EV3000. My guess is there is no option in that you pick one power train or the other- Ford/Ford or Cummins/ Allison. The Ford option is Pierce's answer for departments looking for least cost piece. Throwback to the old days when the Super Duty powered C-900 Ford was the most popular "bang for the buck" commercial fire chassis made. That's what I'm getting from what I'm seeing from Pierce as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 (edited) ...Throwback to the old days when the Super Duty powered C-900 Ford was the most popular "bang for the buck" commercial fire chassis made. . ...and to think, that back in the day, you could get a C-900 with a 300 CI straight six...I have one of them in my 1995 F150....what a motor!! Edited January 1, 2018 by twintornados Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevensecondsuv Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 Got one of them too in a 95 F-250. It'll pull anything. Absolutely anything. Just not fast lol. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 . ...and to think, that back in the day, you could get a C-900 with a 300 CI straight six...I have one of them in my 1995 F150....what a motor!! Well, technically it would have been the C-500 or 600 with the 300 6, so yes, the C series was available with that engine. The 900's used the 'Super Duty' 534 V-8. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 Well, technically it would have been the C-500 or 600 with the 300 6, so yes, the C series was available with that engine. The 900's used the 'Super Duty' 534 V-8. . You're right....should've said C-Series....but, again...one helluva motor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevensecondsuv Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 Are we going to start telling 300 six stories now? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 Are we going to start telling 300 six stories now? Yeah -why not-its a feel good story. Probably a ton of them still in airport tugs pulling baggage carts In any case, will be interesting to see just how well the 6.7 does in getting some sales for Pierce. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelyD Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 Oh boy more complaining about the power train options for this medium duty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 Yeah -why not-its a feel good story. Probably a ton of them still in airport tugs pulling baggage carts In any case, will be interesting to see just how well the 6.7 does in getting some sales for Pierce. . Exactly, Ford has a capacity to produce these power units (6.7L/6R140) that is "plug and play"...works great in Fire Equipment, irrigation systems, stationary power systems, etc etc etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MY93SHO Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 Oh boy more complaining about the power train options for this medium duty. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WaR94StGNI Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelyD Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WaR94StGNI The Hee Haw fleet specialists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 . ...and to think, that back in the day, you could get a C-900 with a 300 CI straight six. I wonder what the final drive was ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 Are we going to start telling 300 six stories now? Before it was killed off, there was a short unauthorized program to try and keep it alive. Only a couple engines were ever assembled with the new head. This was so long ago, my memory is foggy, but I want to say it was an OHC with exhaust on the opposite side as the intake. Managmement found out and killed it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 I wonder what the final drive was ? . Probably similar to the Isuzu NPR medium line, 5.14-1 or along those lines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevensecondsuv Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 Before it was killed off, there was a short unauthorized program to try and keep it alive. Only a couple engines were ever assembled with the new head. This was so long ago, my memory is foggy, but I want to say it was an OHC with exhaust on the opposite side as the intake. Managmement found out and killed it. So about like a larger, six cylinder version of the 2.3L sohc Lima engines, eh? Sounds nice except I'm not sure a timing belt (or was it a chain?) would have been welcome on that motor. The gear on gear timing set was beautiful (except when they got the idea to use the nylon gears for a few years). I've always wanted to build one. I figured a ported/polished head plus forged internals + copius amounts of boost would have been one heck of an "ecoboost" back in it's day. Heck it'd probably put the modern one to shame too given the 40% displacement advantage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelyD Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 That 300 I-6 held some NHRA records in the Gas and Altered classes. Some had segmented Cleveland heads furnace brazed together.to form an I-6 C head. Later there was a billet Yates I-6 head in the Ford Racing catalog. 3.98 stroke worked pretty good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 (edited) That 300 I-6 held some NHRA records in the Gas and Altered classes. Some had segmented Cleveland heads furnace brazed together.to form an I-6 C head. Later there was a billet Yates I-6 head in the Ford Racing catalog. 3.98 stroke worked pretty good. And this is the Aussie 4.1 liter I-6 from the early 1980s, notice it was produced with the Cleveland style alloy head. The only thing against an I-6 is its length and near impossible use as a transverse engine compared to a V6. Edited January 3, 2018 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevensecondsuv Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 That Aussie head won't bolt up to a 300 six block, will it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 And this is the Aussie 4.1 liter I-6 from the early 1980s, notice it was produced with the Cleveland style alloy head. The only thing against an I-6 is its length and near impossible use as a transverse engine compared to a V6. Nice pipes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 And this is the Aussie 4.1 liter I-6 from the early 1980s, notice it was produced with the Cleveland style alloy head. The only thing against an I-6 is its length and near impossible use as a transverse engine compared to a V6. That Aussie head won't bolt up to a 300 six block, will it? . I remember those "trick" crossflow heads....back in the 70's in the open wheel modified circuit here in the North East, we had an owner/driver that was running an I-6 Ford while all others were running V8's...he constantly beat 'em and no one could figure out why until one day, a race inspector figured it out and immediately banned his car from competitions.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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