twintornados Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 COE is good for vocational / day tractor use...but for long haul OTR, it would seem that in North America, it is conventional cab all the way...PACCAR makes both... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 COE's (in regards to class 8 over-the-road) are more expensive, don't ride or handle as well, are more difficult to get in and out of, have less usable interior room, are harder to service, have awkward and wear-prone shift linkage (not as much a factor these days), more wind resistance, are potentially heavier, and are very much not preferred by U.S. drivers. Also, it's a pain to scamper into the sleeper from the driver's seat! Certain vocational applications favor cabovers here, but that small market is adequately supplied. This new Otosan Ford looks like a great truck, but there really isn't a market for it in North America. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
351cid Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 (edited) Curious as to what is wrong with the COE? Is it the short wheelbase and worse ride? Crash safety? I honestly don't know, that's why I'm asking. See 7mary3's response. I drove an International 4076B cab over early in my career and I'm convinced that is what started my lower back issues. We have a 95 Freightliner COE that we use for local business because it will get into spots that my T-600 won't. Even with air ride cab, it's still as rough as a cob compared to the KW. You're sitting right over the top of the steer axle, so all the bumps & vibration are going straight to your ass & lower back. You've never had a shin ache until your foot has slipped getting in or out either. In a conventional, you stand up in the cab and walk into your sleeper (mine is 84") vs crawling on the dog house where you then climb into your bed. Most conventional trucks have curtains that slide over the windshield so you don't feel so closed in. Getting dressed is way easier since you have so much more room. The reason COE's were so popular prior to the 1990's was due to length laws. It used to be 55-60 feet depending on what state you were in. A lot of travel was done on US highways until the late 80's, so the shorter units were needed to get through towns. Back in the 80's, a 48' trailer and a COE were the hot ticket. Now it's a 53' trailer and a 260" wheelbase tractor. Edited July 31, 2018 by 351cid 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 Thanks for the input 7Mary3 and 351cid. Good to hear from those who use(d) these trucks regularly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe771476 Posted August 23, 2018 Author Share Posted August 23, 2018 I tawt I taw an F750 4-door tractor!! I did, i really did! From Avon Lake! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted August 24, 2018 Share Posted August 24, 2018 I tawt I taw an F750 4-door tractor!! I did, i really did! From Avon Lake! . I have been seeing more and more Avon Lake Mediums running around in all kinds of applications... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 . I have been seeing more and more Avon Lake Mediums running around in all kinds of applications... TT-wish I could say the same but what I see around here is reflected in the sales stats. And I know I'm a "broken record" as I have repeatedly talked about the Bluediamond 750's that are running around New England with the power companies and these are heavy 750 bucket trucks. Case in point a major high voltage line is being relocated in my area and the work is being done by Asplundh-the tree people who have a utility division. There are a couple of Bluediamond 750's on the job but the new trucks are a mixed bag of F'liners, Internationals and KW's. Again what is the real difference between a Bluediamond 750 and an Avon Lake 750? Pretty much the power train. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe771476 Posted August 26, 2018 Author Share Posted August 26, 2018 All their trucks around here in CT are Int'l, Fords and GM with a few F-liners and no KW's. They were real big on GM for awhile and there's still some of them around, but those will disappear over time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted August 27, 2018 Share Posted August 27, 2018 The rumor mill has gone quiet on the new big V8. I guessing that Hackett put it on the "slow boat". I wonder if it will show up even in 2020MY ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted August 27, 2018 Share Posted August 27, 2018 The rumor mill has gone quiet on the new big V8. I guessing that Hackett put it on the "slow boat". I wonder if it will show up even in 2020MY ? UGH-if there is one thing that has kept 650/750 afloat IMO it has been gas power-and the thought of an even more efficient and powerful V-8 would be good news. Given all the political announcements that have been made in Canada about the plant expansion this will leave a bad taste if in fact true. I saw your post on the average ager of engineers- wonderful! Everytime I get on an airplane I look to the left and if I see some guys in the cockpit with a bit of gray hair I feel good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 I have not heard anything in a month or two, but last I heard the program was on schedule. I don't think the line was going to finished until the end of the year, with pilot production sometime in early 2019? Unless something has changed......... All the nonsense about this engine going into the 2019 Raptor and Mustang had people expecting it this year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe771476 Posted August 30, 2018 Author Share Posted August 30, 2018 Check out these videos including some walkarounds. They're putting some serious bodies on these F-series mediums! That tow crane has to have class 8 specs I would bet. What do think Bob and 7M3? I'm surprised to see an F650 in China! 2015 Ford F-750 - Walkaround, Specs, & Review (Auto Show) - YouTube Народный тест драйв Ford F650 (Zажигалка Style) от Александра Коваленко (18+) - YouTube The Ultimate $1.5 Million EarthRoamer Luxury 4x4 RV Revealed - YouTube 2016 Ford F-650 / F-750: Rolling off line in Ohio - YouTube Ford F 750 World Cruiser - YouTube Ford F650 dump truck Part 3, crew cab hauling loads and trailering - YouTube Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 Check out these videos including some walkarounds. They're putting some serious bodies on these F-series mediums! That tow crane has to have class 8 specs I would bet. What do think Bob and 7M3? I'm surprised to see an F650 in China! 2015 Ford F-750 - Walkaround, Specs, & Review (Auto Show) - YouTube Народный тест драйв Ford F650 (Zажигалка Style) от Александра Коваленко (18+) - YouTube The Ultimate $1.5 Million EarthRoamer Luxury 4x4 RV Revealed - YouTube 2016 Ford F-650 / F-750: Rolling off line in Ohio - YouTube Ford F 750 World Cruiser - YouTube Ford F650 dump truck Part 3, crew cab hauling loads and trailering - YouTube Joe I think most of those "reviewers" are clueless. As for that hydraulic hook lift, I would say the wrecker capability far exceeds the capability of that 750. I did not see Power Stroke badges so was thinking it was a v-10 then again in one shot it almost looks like there is a DEF tank alongside the fuel tank so maybe it is a 6.7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe771476 Posted August 30, 2018 Author Share Posted August 30, 2018 I agree Bob. They weren't professional, but I found them reasonably entertaining. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted September 3, 2018 Share Posted September 3, 2018 I live in suburban Detroit, on the west side. within less than 15 mile of WHQ and R&E. I am always amazed how FEW medium duty municipal trucks are Ford. Lot of International. Now I know they don't turn these trucks over very frequently, but I would have expected to see some F750 dumps by now ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted September 4, 2018 Share Posted September 4, 2018 I live in suburban Detroit, on the west side. within less than 15 mile of WHQ and R&E. I am always amazed how FEW medium duty municipal trucks are Ford. Lot of International. Now I know they don't turn these trucks over very frequently, but I would have expected to see some F750 dumps by now ! And in the old days you saw plenty of LN-8000's, 9000's right? Not sure what the biggest turn off is -- the 6.7 or the Torqueshift. Perhaps front axle? You can get a 14,000 lb but if these municipals are into wings and power angling front plows some might think a 14,000 front is too light. And I have to say in terms of "heft" some of these 12,000 and heavier front axles look very skimpy compared to older axles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted September 4, 2018 Share Posted September 4, 2018 It's probably the powertrain. Municipalities and public utilities often have a lot of specialized equipment and very specific equipment specifications. Due to our P.T.O. requirements, we have to have the 3000 series Allison transmission. No way at present around that. Also, we actually don't choose the chassis, we leave it to the upfitter to pick the truck and we buy the completed vehicle from them. Naturally the upfitter is going to go with the best chassis for them, and sometimes it's not the lowest priced. If a particular truck is not the cheapest, but requires the fewest modifications and can be ordered from the factory with required components, that's the one the upfitter will buy. A truck manufacturer's willingness to cooperate with an upfitter is a big factor. That all having been said, I don't think this is the primary market Ford is catering to with the 650/750. Ford seems to be to be going after basic medium duty operators (box van and flats) like P&D and rental fleets. Not a bad strategy, these buyers tend to be very cost-sensitive (Ford has an advantage here) and represent a very large percentage of the medium duty market. Not a bad thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted September 4, 2018 Share Posted September 4, 2018 It's probably the powertrain. Municipalities and public utilities often have a lot of specialized equipment and very specific equipment specifications. Due to our P.T.O. requirements, we have to have the 3000 series Allison transmission. No way at present around that. Also, we actually don't choose the chassis, we leave it to the upfitter to pick the truck and we buy the completed vehicle from them. Naturally the upfitter is going to go with the best chassis for them, and sometimes it's not the lowest priced. If a particular truck is not the cheapest, but requires the fewest modifications and can be ordered from the factory with required components, that's the one the upfitter will buy. A truck manufacturer's willingness to cooperate with an upfitter is a big factor. That all having been said, I don't think this is the primary market Ford is catering to with the 650/750. Ford seems to be to be going after basic medium duty operators (box van and flats) like P&D and rental fleets. Not a bad strategy, these buyers tend to be very cost-sensitive (Ford has an advantage here) and represent a very large percentage of the medium duty market. Not a bad thing. Agree-I'm sure biggest turn off is the power train. And totally understand your company position on the PTO issue. As you are a knowledgeable truck guy, what do you think of your company delegating the chassis selection to the equipment supplier?? Wow I can think of all sorts of conflicts that would bring about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted September 4, 2018 Share Posted September 4, 2018 Check this out. As we have all said, the competition is just getting tougher. Chevy dealers report for medium-duty Michael Wayland, Automotive News / September 3, 2018 Hundreds of Chevrolet dealers are preparing their stores for what could be one of the most significant boosts for their fixed operations business in a decade. "There is a huge amount of business that's been waiting for us to get back into this market and business," said Mike Bowsher, chairman of the Chevrolet National Dealer Council. Bowsher, owner of Carl Black Automotive Group, in Kennesaw, Ga., is one of more than 400 Chevy dealers who have agreed to sell medium-duty commercial trucks, including new Chevrolet Silverado 4500HD, 5500HD and 6500HD trucks that are scheduled to go into production in early December. Dealers across the country — from Carl Black's Chevrolet stores in Georgia to Silveira Chevrolet in Sonoma, Calif. — have been anticipating the arrival of such trucks for months, if not years. "Those of us who lost medium-duty in the past, we lost a lot of service business, and we lost a lot of gross profit due to those sales going away," Bowsher said. GM exited the medium-duty segment as part of its 2009 bankruptcy, allowing Ford Motor Co. to increase its commercial leadership position and Fiat Chrysler Automobiles' Ram to expand its business. Many Chevy dealers re-established medium-duty operations two years ago to support the brand's low-cab-forward trucks, but the Silverado medium-duty trucks are expected to be the bread and butter of Chevy's new commercial lineup. "We have a number of dealers that are going to grow their facility for either stocking or service or just building an adjacent building for the expansion," said John Schwegman, director of commercial product and medium duty at GM Fleet. "It's not about what's the minimum requirement. It's about 'How do I maximize my return for this opportunity?' because they see it as a significant opportunity." Upgrades Requirements include training for sales and service staff on commercial vehicles as well as parts and other specifications such as service door heights and lifts to accommodate the trucks. GM said about a third of the more than 400 medium-duty dealers are new to the business or are re-establishing their operations for the medium-duty Silverados. GM has established a "Commercial College" to help train dealers for the medium-duty trucks, including the low-cab forwards, which dealers are required to sell alongside the Silverados, according to Paul McKay, manager of commercial dealer operations. About 2,000 people are expected to be trained as part of the program, which is a mix of on-site, online and remote training for sales and service staff. "What we want to just make sure is when these [medium-duty] customers call or they come visit, we want to make sure our dealership partners are ready to meet the needs of that customer," McKay said. Silveira Chevrolet, a newcomer to Chevy's medium-duty truck business, has installed two service bays and plans to add sales and technician staff as needed, according to Darron Kendall, commercial-sales manager. Silveira, he said, decided to enter the business to offer a full line of vehicles for its customers, including a "large number of clients" in the wine business in Sonoma and Napa counties in Northern California. "By being able to handle all of their vehicles, we can ensure that we maintain a great relationship with them to ensure that all of their vehicle needs are met," said Kendall, who declined to disclose how much the dealership has spent on meeting medium-duty requirements. GM previously estimated the cost to meet the requirements at $100,000 to $200,000. Incremental training and parts could cost $10,000 to $15,000 for those dealers. Others such as Randy Marion already have the infrastructure in place and have continued to service commercial vehicles despite GM exiting the segment. "We've been out of the game, but now we're getting back into the game," said Marion, owner of Randy Marion Chevrolet-Buick-Cadillac in Mooresville, N.C. "We're really excited." Marion, one of Chevrolet's highest-volume commercial dealers in the country according to GM, has about 40 employees working on its commercial business. He said that number could increase as the dealership gets more business from the Silverado trucks. GM executives have said they expect three adjacent sales of other vehicles with each medium-duty truck sold. That, according to officials, should translate to additional fixed-operations business. "It could be and should be significant," said Keith McCluskey, owner of McCluskey Chevrolet in metropolitan Cincinnati. "If there's that many adjacent sales, then let's extrapolate that into the fixed operations." Priority service Another main dealer-led focus as GM prepares to launch the Silverados is ensuring dealers offer extended "priority service" hours for medium-duty customers to expedite maintenance and repairs, according to McKay. "These medium-duty customers have high expectations and doing service work during just normal business hours doesn't always work," he said. For example, McCluskey Chevrolet is already open seven days a week with service hours for retail customers, including until 3 a.m. weekdays. The store plans to keep those hours for its medium-duty business, including an early-morning pickup. "It's an important part of the business," McCluskey said. "It can be a very high volume model for those of us who focus on it." . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevensecondsuv Posted September 4, 2018 Share Posted September 4, 2018 Was it ever announced whether or not GM will offer a gas engine in their new mediums? I don't see the vortec 6000 being adequate; plus it's old as dirt (older than Ford's original 2v V10 at this point). Unless GM is planning a serious answer to Ford's V10, I don't see them taking much of Ford's market share. If all they offer is the same old Duramax and Allison 1000 out of the 2500/3500 trucks, I think their results in MD will look a lot like Ford's, minus the gas engine sales (which are obviously a majority of Ford's sales). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted September 4, 2018 Share Posted September 4, 2018 Was it ever announced whether or not GM will offer a gas engine in their new mediums? I don't see the vortec 6000 being adequate; plus it's old as dirt (older than Ford's original 2v V10 at this point). Unless GM is planning a serious answer to Ford's V10, I don't see them taking much of Ford's market share. If all they offer is the same old Duramax and Allison 1000 out of the 2500/3500 trucks, I think their results in MD will look a lot like Ford's, minus the gas engine sales (which are obviously a majority of Ford's sales). Word is they have a new large gas engine coming for 2020. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted September 4, 2018 Share Posted September 4, 2018 Agree-I'm sure biggest turn off is the power train. And totally understand your company position on the PTO issue. As you are a knowledgeable truck guy, what do you think of your company delegating the chassis selection to the equipment supplier?? Wow I can think of all sorts of conflicts that would bring about. Having the upfitter select the chassis is causing no issues at all. We are buying the finished truck from the upfitter, and they have to submit a bid for the business. We have a couple of different upfitters, and they are pretty competitive with one another. The finished truck has to meet the spec. that we give them. Ford lost most of our class 6/7 business some time ago, back in the 'Blue Diamond' days. It started costing a lot more to upfit a Ford due to all the chassis modifications our upfitters had to make on them. The Freightliner M2 could be ordered in such a way that the upfitter didn't have to modify anything, just install his body and equipment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stray Kat Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 This came across the wire. https://www.tfltruck.com/2018/09/rumor-confirmed-a-new-7-3l-gas-v8-is-coming-to-the-ford-super-duty/ The rumors of pushrods is getting stronger, what say ye? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 I say 2020 MY. Hope it is available in the 250 and 350. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 This came across the wire. https://www.tfltruck.com/2018/09/rumor-confirmed-a-new-7-3l-gas-v8-is-coming-to-the-ford-super-duty/ The rumors of pushrods is getting stronger, what say ye? . I say OHC... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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