304 replies to this topic

[JasonM]

http://media.ford.co...rticle_id=37458

Edited by JasonM, 30 November 2012 - 06:12 PM.

[fordtech1]

Why is it every time we get a car from Europe it seems to have such a bad start? Also Ford has such a bad reputation with fire. I realize car fires are more common than people know, but Ford has this fire problem reputation. I hope the recall is quick to perform. We discussed after hour repairs if necessary. All out 1.6 are stop sale.

[jpd80]

Ford estimates that there are approximately 73,320 Escapes and 15,833 Fusions produced and distributed for sale in the U.S. and Canada with 1.6-liter engines, with most in the U.S. market. The issue does not affect 2013 Escape or 2013 Fusion models with other engines.

[JasonM]

Makes me wonder if the original recall wasn't done properly at the dealership, which in turn caused this problem.

[aneekr]

What a confidence inspiring powerplant, this 1.6L Ecoboost unit.

As I mentioned in another thread, there doesn't appear to be any good reason for offering 1.6L Ecoboost in U.S. market Escapes and non-hybrid Fusions. An engine lineup consisting solely of 2.5L MZR and 2.0L Ecoboost engines is perfectly sufficient for these vehicles.

[RichardJensen]

Hey, I've got a great idea!

Let's take the platforms from a market that is significantly less profitable, where our vehicles are significantly less reliable, and use them instead of the platforms we use in a market that is significantly more profitable, where our vehicles are significantly more profitable.

I don't want to hear anyone blame FNA for this. This is all on Ford's European operations now. All of it.

Welcome to the US, FoE vehicles. The standards are different here.

[ffdemoss]

Makes me wonder if the original recall wasn't done properly at the dealership, which in turn caused this problem.

According to the release I saw is speifically said it was not related to the fuel hose issue. This is an issue in which the engine overheats and then a "fluid" drips onto hot exhaust. So two questions...what causes the engine to overheat and what is the "fluid"? My guess would be possible trans or engine oil being burped out.

I'd say all bets are off if the the owner allows the engine to overheat to the point fluid start spitting out...thats why I think the bigger question is what is causing the engine to overheat.

[Deanh]

Hey, I've got a great idea!

Let's take the platforms from a market that is significantly less profitable, where our vehicles are significantly less reliable, and use them instead of the platforms we use in a market that is significantly more profitable, where our vehicles are significantly more profitable.

I don't want to hear anyone blame FNA for this. This is all on Ford's European operations now. All of it.

Welcome to the US, FoE vehicles. The standards are different here.

agreed, however, it shouldnt stop us doing endurance testing here should it?.............that said Ive got ONE Fusion here...ONE...so go ahead, recall it.....lol

[mackinaw]

.......I don't want to hear anyone blame FNA for this. This is all on Ford's European operations now. All of it.

Welcome to the US, FoE vehicles. The standards are different here.

Mr. Jensen, you nailed this 100%. I talked to my engineering contact during the Thanksgiving holiday who gave me a heads up on this recall. This is a 100% european goof-up, and my contact lay the blame entirely on the Brits. The engine guys in Dearborn are plenty pissed about this whole thing because it makes them look bad too.

Another heads-up, if you're in the market for a small Ford, buy the 2.0L, it was engineered in Dearborn.

[mackinaw]

According to the release I saw is speifically said it was not related to the fuel hose issue. This is an issue in which the engine overheats and then a "fluid" drips onto hot exhaust. So two questions...what causes the engine to overheat and what is the "fluid"? My guess would be possible trans or engine oil being burped out......

It's anti-freeze. Anti-freeze is combustible at 700 degrees F. Anti-freeze leaking onto the exhaust manifold is Ford's best guess as to what's causing the fires (I heard this last Thursday).

[aneekr]

Another heads-up, if you're in the market for a small Ford, buy the 2.0L, it was engineered in Dearborn.

...with input from Mazda (both naturally aspirated and Ecoboost versions of the 2.0L I4 currently used in Ford vehicles are based on the Mazda MZR architecture).

I agree with you - for late model U.S. market Fords offering four cylinder engines, the 2.0L or 2.5L units in their various configurations are good choices.

[Edstock]

Too bad it happened, but changes will be made in the product and even more important, the process by which it appears.

[RichardJensen]

This is a 100% european goof-up, and my contact lay the blame entirely on the Brits.

I'm serious. I'm on a zero-tolerance "Europe does cars better" kick right now. I don't want to hear anyone come around here talking about "US suppliers...." "NA manufacturing base..." I don't have time for any of that crap. I don't care to hear anyone blame Ford's NA manufacturing ops for bungling this launch. Or, in retrospect, the Focus launch or the Escape launch.

FoE is now 0 for 3 on product launches in the US. In fact, if you toss in the first Focus, they're 0-4. Toss in the Contour, and they're 0-5.

It has been established, IMO, clearly, that FoE's product engineering and manufacturing controls are shoddy, substandard, and not up to the requirements of the US market.

Frankly, Ford needs to clean house in Europe. If you're in Europe and you're in charge of any aspect of manufacturing, you'd better have a paper trail documenting your concerns over this. If not, polish up your resume and go to work for VW. I hear they're always hiring.

If you're in charge of any aspect of vehicle engineering, you'd better have been on record with your concerns about your products measuring up to the NHTSA's standards. You may be able to get away with engine fires in Italy, Bulgaria, East Troglenstein, and wherever else, but that crap doesn't cut it here. You have zero slack in the US. None. You screw up and it's headline news in this market. You screw up this big, this often, and you're toast.

If you weren't concerned with these products hitting the market in the US, you're a menace to Ford motor. Maybe that's a bit strong, but I can't stress enough how utterly unready these products were for manufacture and sale and use in this market.

Time to clean house in Europe. Maybe Ford's European products will get better too.

[2005Explorer]

Mr. Jensen, you nailed this 100%. I talked to my engineering contact during the Thanksgiving holiday who gave me a heads up on this recall. This is a 100% european goof-up, and my contact lay the blame entirely on the Brits. The engine guys in Dearborn are plenty pissed about this whole thing because it makes them look bad too.

Another heads-up, if you're in the market for a small Ford, buy the 2.0L, it was engineered in Dearborn.

I'm thinking for the small mileage penalty and the fairly reasonable upgrade cost a person would be much better off with the 2.0 EB in these vehicles. So far it seems like the 1.6 has been full of issues whereas I haven't heard anything but good about the 2.0. The other advantage is that the 2.0 offers a nice performance boost as well so your likely to be much happier with the engine over the longterm.

Ford estimates that there are approximately 73,320 Escapes and 15,833 Fusions produced and distributed for sale in the U.S. and Canada with 1.6-liter engines, with most in the U.S. market. The issue does not affect 2013 Escape or 2013 Fusion models with other engines.

Customers driving 2013 Escape vehicles equipped with the 1.6-liter engine and 2013 Fusion models equipped with the 1.6-liter engine are advised to contact their dealer as soon as possible to arrange for alternative transportation at no charge. Repair procedures are not currently available.

So they have to provide alternative transportation for almost 90,000 vehicles and repair procedures are not currently available? I can see this getting pretty expensive and creating quite a bit of inconvenience for current owners.

Edited by 2005Explorer, 30 November 2012 - 08:28 PM.

[BlackHorse]

[RichardJensen]

Bad way to reintroduce yourself to the forum, BH.

[Ron W.]

It has been established, IMO, clearly, that FoE's product engineering and manufacturing controls are shoddy, substandard, and not up to the requirements of the US market.

Frankly, Ford needs to clean house in Europe.

Like

[Biker16]

What a confidence inspiring powerplant, this 1.6L Ecoboost unit.

As I mentioned in another thread, there doesn't appear to be any good reason for offering 1.6L Ecoboost in U.S. market Escapes and non-hybrid Fusions. An engine lineup consisting solely of 2.5L MZR and 2.0L Ecoboost engines is perfectly sufficient for these vehicles.

yeah Ford should not do anything new, this argument about why the 1.6 should not be offered and use the inferior 2.5 instead is insane and myopic.

After all we have had so many problems with the ecoboost engine. in the Taurus, F-150, escape, edge, Mondeo, Focus, C-max, Falcon, etc. but we have not.

Hey, I've got a great idea!

Let's take the platforms from a market that is significantly less profitable, where our vehicles are significantly less reliable, and use them instead of the platforms we use in a market that is significantly more profitable, where our vehicles are significantly more profitable.

I don't want to hear anyone blame FNA for this. This is all on Ford's European operations now. All of it.

Welcome to the US, FoE vehicles. The standards are different here.

So richard it was the "platform" that caused the overheating? and becaue the "platform was from europe it must be thier fault that the north American verison of the engine is having problems?

who is responsible for the integrity of the Fusion EB16 and 6F35 combination? wasn't the Fusion/Mondeo a project led by Ford north America not Ford of Europe?

Wouldn't it make more sense to follow the logic that Ford north America federalized this engine and has had nothing but issues with`NA suppliers of faulty fuel lines and now it looks to be the ECU is allowing the engine to overheat, nevermind this engine has been used in the Ford C-max since launch, without a hint of these issues.

Since Ford North America was the lead for the US version of this engine it bears the blame for it.

According to the release I saw is speifically said it was not related to the fuel hose issue. This is an issue in which the engine overheats and then a "fluid" drips onto hot exhaust. So two questions...what causes the engine to overheat and what is the "fluid"? My guess would be possible trans or engine oil being burped out.

I'd say all bets are off if the the owner allows the engine to overheat to the point fluid start spitting out...thats why I think the bigger question is what is causing the engine to overheat.

It sounds like an ECU issue to me. there is no reason a engine in 2012 should overheat. there are too many tools to address issues of cooling, for desert testing to the dyno lab, where these issues should be found and resolved.

It would appear to me that the ECU is allowing the engine to run to lean under load, using too much EGR under load, the ECU is holding the wrong gear for Too long over loading the engine, and not being smart enough to downshift the engine to reduce the load on the engine.

Either way this issue is not found in the Volvo S60 which uses the engine in the Rest of the world.

[Biker16]

Mr. Jensen, you nailed this 100%. I talked to my engineering contact during the Thanksgiving holiday who gave me a heads up on this recall. This is a 100% european goof-up, and my contact lay the blame entirely on the Brits. The engine guys in Dearborn are plenty pissed about this whole thing because it makes them look bad too.

Another heads-up, if you're in the market for a small Ford, buy the 2.0L, it was engineered in Dearborn.

no it wasn't, it debuted on the mondeo 2 years ago, and is build in Spain. It was reneigneered by dearborn

So what does your source say was the cause of the problem.

modern Engines do not overheat without a reason.

[transitman]

You abandoned Ford, you have no horse in the race, keep it to yourself.