Edmonds; rwd GNX/GN to return

[Fgts]

http://www.insideline.com/buick/grand-national-gnx-and-t-type-are-returning-to-buick.html

 

There's strong rumors that the next generation Regal will end up on the Alpha platform to spread costs and separate it from the Malibu, this backs that up.

 

Meanwhile at camp fwd (Lincoln)...............

 

Couldn't help it......

[jpd80]

Stupidity is like compounding interest.....it doesn't work so well as an "x" so let's build a "Y" to support it..

Edited November 26, 2012 by jpd80

[PREMiERdrum]

Grossly exaggerated reporting by InsideLine.

 

Several program additions to Alpha were "Blue Sky'd" and considered when Alpha's costs ballooned out of control towards the end of development. Right now, none of these have been greenlit.

 

A heritage name is set be used on a version of Regal, and a proposed Insignia/Regal-based coupe is set to wear the Riviera badge.

 

Everything in the Buick pipeline right now is FWD/AWD.

[Fgts]

"Grossly exaggerated reporting by InsideLine"

 

Just because it not a green light dosent mean GM isn't doing it, that's how the upcoming Caddy flagship rumors spread before an official green light was given. The 2.0 turbo ATS is lighter/faster/better mpg and handles better then the GS Regal with the same engine. And if the Alpha cost ballooned isn't that incentive to make more models to spread costs?.

[NickF1011]

And if the Alpha cost ballooned isn't that incentive to make more models to spread costs?.

 

No. I would say it is incentive to find out why the costs ballooned in the first place.

[jpd80]

"Grossly exaggerated reporting by InsideLine"

 

Just because it not a green light dosent mean GM isn't doing it, that's how the upcoming Caddy flagship rumors spread before an official green light was given. The 2.0 turbo ATS is lighter/faster/better mpg and handles better then the GS Regal with the same engine.

It should b,e the ATS is a compact and the Regal is a mid sizer...

 

And if the Alpha cost ballooned isn't that incentive to make more models to spread costs?.

Alpha costs ballooned for Cadillac because other versions of Alpha were stopped,

you can't make a unique platform for Cadillac and then give it to Buick or Chevrolet.

Edited November 26, 2012 by jpd80

[630land]

It will flop, since it "doesn't look like the old ones" and "its not a 2 door", and always "My wife won't let me buy it".

[grbeck]

The original T-Types, GNX and Grand National really didn't do much for Buick's image. No one thought of Buick as a performance car back then, regardless of how quick the Grand National was.

 

Just as the SC/Rambler, AMX and Rebel Machine of the late 1960s and early 1970s didn't erase AMC's image as a purveyor of cars for tightwads and your Aunt Edna.

 

Once again, a GM division is trying to be all things to all people...another indication that the recent bankruptcy didn't cure GM of all its old bad habits.

[FordBuyer]

The original T-Types, GNX and Grand National really didn't do much for Buick's image. No one thought of Buick as a performance car back then, regardless of how quick the Grand National was.

 

Just as the SC/Rambler, AMX and Rebel Machine of the late 1960s and early 1970s didn't erase AMC's image as a purveyor of cars for tightwads and your Aunt Edna.

 

Once again, a GM division is trying to be all things to all people...another indication that the recent bankruptcy didn't cure GM of all its old bad habits.

 

I would agree in that Buick doesn't offer anything you can't buy at Chevy dealer for less money. Now comes new Chevy Impala that is LaCrosse clone. However, I still wish Buick well and hope their sales increase rather than stagnate or get worse. I imagine the new, small SUV coming to Buick will help a bit.

[TomServo92]

It looks like GM has pulled out the Pontiac playbook. But don't worry, it REALLY will work this time! :rolleyes:

[silvrsvt]

The original T-Types, GNX and Grand National really didn't do much for Buick's image. No one thought of Buick as a performance car back then, regardless of how quick the Grand National was.

 

I dunno about that...the production run of the GN was pushed back because it was so popular...The car itself was popular, but it didn't change the image of Buick...

 

I like the idea they are doing it, but its mostly nostalgia reasons, not a sound business case

[PREMiERdrum]

I dunno about that...the production run of the GN was pushed back because it was so popular...The car itself was popular, but it didn't change the image of Buick...

its mostly nostalgia reasons, not a sound business case

 

Or, as GM calls it, "a business case."

[6t5frlane]

The original T-Types, GNX and Grand National really didn't do much for Buick's image. No one thought of Buick as a performance car back then, regardless of how quick the Grand National was.

 

Just as the SC/Rambler, AMX and Rebel Machine of the late 1960s and early 1970s didn't erase AMC's image as a purveyor of cars for tightwads and your Aunt Edna.

 

Once again, a GM division is trying to be all things to all people...another indication that the recent bankruptcy didn't cure GM of all its old bad habits.

 

AMC was not trying to change everything about themselves but wanted in on the " youth " movement. Hence the SC/rambler AMX etc. I can remember my buddy in a 67 GTO getting beat by the S/C . Everyone started noticing the AMC cars. They still did not sell like the big 3 ( many reasons why ), but they were noticed. As for the Buick's...Wow did they get noticed. It was not long before almost all you saw at the track ( late 80's )were 5.0's and Gn's. They were all the rage. I'm not sure how well the new Buick's will do, but I would guess you will see a 2dr GNX....

[jpd80]

Alpha is the new Sigma in more ways than one - It's all wrapped up in the Vanity of GM to pursue BMW 3 and 5 series.

GM already admits that the ATS will cannibalize CTS sales from below while the new XTS asks serious questions from above...

I don't see the sense in ATS, Cadillac could have released a slightly smaller CTS on Alpha but still offered buyers a mid sized car

Edited November 27, 2012 by jpd80

[Bob Rosadini]

It looks like GM has pulled out the Pontiac playbook. But don't worry, it REALLY will work this time! :rolleyes:

Well one big difference- the Pontiacs were "blah". this Buick? Not bad! I know, a minority opinion.B

And someone said-....Buick won't be offering something anything that you can't get at a Chevy dealer..or words to that effect. My fear is the same applies to Lincoln....they won't be offering anything that you can't get at a Ford dealer..Yawn :beatdeadhorse:

[TomServo92]

Well one big difference- the Pontiacs were "blah". this Buick? Not bad! I know, a minority opinion.B

And someone said-....Buick won't be offering something anything that you can't get at a Chevy dealer..or words to that effect. My fear is the same applies to Lincoln....they won't be offering anything that you can't get at a Ford dealer..Yawn :beatdeadhorse:

 

I still have my doubts that GM can make this work. I stand by my opinion that it's just "Pontiac Part Deux".

[papilgee4evaeva]

Alpha is the new Sigma in more ways than one - It's all wrapped up in the Vanity of GM to pursue BMW 3 and 5 series.

GM already admits that the ATS will cannibalize CTS sales from below while the new XTS asks serious questions from above...

I don't see the sense in ATS, Cadillac could have released a slightly smaller CTS on Alpha but still offered buyers a mid sized car

 

2014 CTS is growing to make room for ATS below, both price- and size-wise. Will also move to Alpha, per what I last read.

 

So that gives 3 cars confirmed for Alpha: ATS, CTS, and next Camaro.

[Bob Rosadini]

I still have my doubts that GM can make this work. I stand by my opinion that it's just "Pontiac Part Deux".

As a stockholder, I hope you are right, but putting my blue blood aside I think Buick is doing a good job.

[silvrsvt]

GM already admits that the ATS will cannibalize CTS sales from below while the new XTS asks serious questions from above...

I don't see the sense in ATS, Cadillac could have released a slightly smaller CTS on Alpha but still offered buyers a mid sized car

 

I don't think its that...the ATS is yet another inbetweener car from GM...the CTS has a 113in Wheelbase (slightly longer then your typical CD car) and the ATS is 109in..which is small side of a CD car or large C car size.

 

Then add in that the ATS is cheaper then CTS...no wonder why it is stealing sales from the CTS...thats why Ford has to be careful if they do a C sized Lincoln Sedan...it won't be as proftible as the MKZ would be. There shouldn't be an issue with it stealing sales...its much like the Fusion, Focus and Fiesta...they will all steal sales from one another, but if they are on a regulated upgrade schecle, it shouldn't be an issue, since buyers would buy the newest model coming out.

[akirby]

I don't think its that...the ATS is yet another inbetweener car from GM...the CTS has a 113in Wheelbase (slightly longer then your typical CD car) and the ATS is 109in..which is small side of a CD car or large C car size.

 

Then add in that the ATS is cheaper then CTS...no wonder why it is stealing sales from the CTS...thats why Ford has to be careful if they do a C sized Lincoln Sedan...it won't be as proftible as the MKZ would be. There shouldn't be an issue with it stealing sales...its much like the Fusion, Focus and Fiesta...they will all steal sales from one another, but if they are on a regulated upgrade schecle, it shouldn't be an issue, since buyers would buy the newest model coming out.

 

Provided the net result is an overall increase in sales and profits. You don't want to take a 50K vehicle and replace it with 3 vehicles that only sell 55K units.

[akirby]

This is the difference in how Ford and GM do product development.

 

GM still seems to work in silos on individual projects. Here is a neat car - let's see if we can make a business case for it. So you have all these individual business cases that by themselves may actually be positive done by individual groups or brands. Platform sharing is an afterthought or at least optional. This is how Ford of Europe operated for years and why we had 2 different Focii.

 

Ford makes decisions at the aggregate corporate level. They don't look at an individual business case - they look at the bigger picture. I've worked in both types of management so it's pretty easy to see the differences.

 

Here's an example. GM has 3 different but similar sized vehicles based on 3 different platforms. Each one has a business case that says it can be built separately and each one can yield $1m profit over 5 years. GM would look at these individually and greenlight them and they make $3M over 5 years with a huge capital investment.

 

Ford would look at it and say "how can we build these 3 vehicles in the most efficient way to yield the most profit". The answer is they should all share a new platform and drivetrains. Ford creates a new global platform and then each vehicle tweaks it. Each vehicle yields $3M profit over 5 years or a total of $9M profit on half the capital investment.

 

This was the tough nut that Mulally had to crack when he came to Ford - to get managers to stop thinking parochially and to think like one business.

 

In one of my old jobs we had one group who wanted an enhancement made to a system that would save each of their workers 20 seconds per phone call. The problem was the phone call was coming from other employees and that feature would actually cost the other employees about 30 seconds extra time per call, so the net to the company as a whole would be a 10 second loss. We said no and our management backed it. That's how Mulally manages Ford and that's how GM does not manage GM.

[Fgts]

^^^^^^ yea, yea,yea where's Ford rwd sedans?. Update: GM will want to do a Chevy version of the proposed GN/T-type in order to give it an offical green in which why Chevy's Code 130 concept is being shown around to get a reaction before building such a car. As it is now GM do have this Buick(s) on the table. Now how will a mid-size rwd sedan fit in Chevy's between the Malibu, Impala and SS who knows. Maybe it could be a Chevelle or Nova.

[RichardJensen]

Someone should tell GM to mail that idea to 1970.

[silvrsvt]

^^^^^^ yea, yea,yea where's Ford rwd sedans?. Update: GM will want to do a Chevy version of the proposed GN/T-type in order to give it an offical green in which why Chevy's Code 130 concept is being shown around to get a reaction before building such a car. As it is now GM do have this Buick(s) on the table. Now how will a mid-size rwd sedan fit in Chevy's between the Malibu, Impala and SS who knows. Maybe it could be a Chevelle or Nova.

 

Why divide your market even more then you have too? Makes zero sense to have a RWD counterpart to a D and CD sized markets when you already have a FWD platform doing that. Its about doing things the right way and making money on them, not throwing shit on the wall and hoping it sticks...