Ford October 2012 Sales Flat, Retail up 2%

[jpd80]

Lincoln needs the Escape/Explorer based vehicles to get the sales numbers up and the new MKX/Navigator - that is what is selling in the market. Once you get those SUV's out, the new MKZ and MKS sales shouldn't be that bad and will really start changing Lincoln perception in the market, if the style is done right. Look at the GL -- it outsells the S-Class 2/1 in the market now, that says volumes of what the market thinks of big sedans.

Exactly, Ford should be playing to its strengths which is SUVs and CUVs, the benefits that Lincoln will reap from a combined "Mariner"-MKX- Aviator - Navigator strategy

should be breath taking, The need for additional sedans above MKZ and MKS is comparatively low and possibly not essential

[BrewfanGRB]

I still really confused by the Escape sales numbers. People were absolutely INSISTENT that not only did they personally not like the Escape merely because it did not look like a truck, but projected their personal preferences on buyers across the country--INSISTING sales would be significantly lower. Pro Tip: Those people who have the skills and experience to do a job probably should be the ones to do it.

[jpd80]

With regards to Ford's sales being rather flat, that does not take into account that Ford stopped production of

Crown Victoria, Town car and Ranger last year effectively replacing 9,300 vehicles last October so that actually

accounts for an additional 5.5% hiding in plain sight.....

[FordBuyer]

With regards to Ford's sales being rather flat, that does not take into account that Ford stopped production of

Crown Victoria, Town car and Ranger last year effectively replacing 9,300 vehicles last October so that actually

accounts for an additional 5.5% hiding in plain sight.....

 

Uh, Ford added the Taurus and Explorer P.I. and the C Max. It was another month of below norm Fusion sales that did them in. Fusion sales averaged 20,000 or so per month last year and Ford expects to sell about 30,000/month once FRAP gets going full bore. I guess you could say Ranger's 7,000 sales last year and none this year hurt too, but C Max and P.I. sales made up for no Town Car and CV. Fiesta being the orphan child doesn't help either. Never much advertised around here. Sonic competition must have hurt also in midwest where the bulk of domestic sales are. And built in U.S,A. like the Focus and Cruze.

[jpd80]

Uh, Ford added the Taurus and Explorer P.I. and the C Max. It was another month of below norm Fusion sales that did them in. Fusion sales averaged 20,000 or so per month last year and Ford expects to sell about 30,000/month once FRAP gets going full bore. I guess you could say Ranger's 7,000 sales last year and none this year hurt too, but C Max and P.I. sales made up for no Town Car and CV. Fiesta being the orphan child doesn't help either. Never much advertised around here. Sonic competition must have hurt also in midwest where the bulk of domestic sales are. And built in U.S,A. like the Focus and Cruze.

That's what I'm saying, the perception of fairly flat sales numbers belies the changes to product mix.

Ford shut down two plants and has changed over platforms to maximize scales of economy and

C1 now accounts for 40,000 combined sales last month. D3 just on 20,000.

Huge changes to Hermosillo are being done on the fly and include supplier logistics as well so

some unfortunate delays in new product but that is also good for selling down the 2012 stock,

there appears to be less than 4,000 2012 Fusions left on national dealer inventory.

Edited November 3, 2012 by jpd80

[Fgts]

The biggest thing that is missing from Lincoln (other then rwd cars) is Mercury. Caddy always marketed and sold exclusive as just Caddy as with Lincoln was always marketed as Lincoln/Mercury with a sales structure to back it up.

 

The premium small/cuv stuff was being handled well by Mercury, why give up on something like that?.

 

 

[Edstock]

Lincoln was always marketed as Lincoln/Mercury with a sales structure to back it up.

 

No. Ford was selling Lincolns long (like decades, even) before Mercury ever appeared, and it wasn't until after WW2 that Mercury became more than just one model, a long-wheelbase Ford, developing the Mercury line-up of vehicles like the Comet and Cougar.

[akirby]

The biggest thing that is missing from Lincoln (other then rwd cars) is Mercury. Caddy always marketed and sold exclusive as just Caddy as with Lincoln was always marketed as Lincoln/Mercury with a sales structure to back it up.

 

The premium small/cuv stuff was being handled well by Mercury, why give up on something like that?.

 

Because having Mercury takes resources away from Lincoln. Any vehicle that would be good as a Mercury would be just as good as a Lincoln without the extra overhead.

[BORG]

Has Ford lost marketshare this year?

[jpd80]

Has Ford lost marketshare this year?

Nope

 

http://cmsimg.detnews.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=C3&Date=20121102&Category=AUTO01&ArtNo=211020332&Ref=V2&Profile=1148&MaxW=600&Border=0

[BORG]

Nope

 

http://cmsimg.detnew...xW=600&Border=0

 

Better than last year, despite loosing models. The Fusion transition might cause some issues rounding out the year.

[RichardJensen]

Actually, that does represent a loss of market share. Note that the overall market is up > 10%, while Ford is only up 4.9%. Of course, that's a capacity constrained 4.9%, which is much worse than a, 'gee our stuff isn't selling' 4.9%.

[Hydro]

How about the more powerful Fusion 2.0L ecoboost with more torque and much better fuel economy?

 

Taurus 3.5L 288 hp/ 254 lb/ft 17/25

Fusion 2.0L EB 240 hp/ 270 lb/ft 22/33

 

Like I said, unless you want the SHO or just prefer the Taurus styling I think the Fusion wins out. Unless you just have to have a V6 regardless of performance.

 

Well, I honestly think the jury is still out on EB fuel economy. Yes, in a controlled EPA test it wins out, just like in the F-150's. In real world romping, stop and go, stop and go, 1 more stop and go because I live in traffic the MPG's suck. My truck gets worse MPG than the 5.0L and barely nudges the 6.2L (have friends with both). In the turbo motors we have to spool up all the time to get the vehicle moving, any onramp or just having a bad day and want to get home your fuel economy SUCKS. I don't baby the throttle so I don't expect hybrid MPG's, but getting 6 mpg less than the sticker estimate is rather disappointing. I just know NA motors get better MPG for my family and driving style. We took an extended test drive in a new EB fusion. Reset the MPG meter and copied a route my wife would take in her 2010 3.0L Fusion. Our V6 got better MPG and power felt the same. Needless to say we are holding out for the V6. If there isn't one either in regular or sport format in the next year or so we'll look elsewhere.

[jpd80]

Well, I honestly think the jury is still out on EB fuel economy. Yes, in a controlled EPA test it wins out, just like in the F-150's. In real world romping, stop and go, stop and go, 1 more stop and go because I live in traffic the MPG's suck. My truck gets worse MPG than the 5.0L and barely nudges the 6.2L (have friends with both). In the turbo motors we have to spool up all the time to get the vehicle moving, any onramp or just having a bad day and want to get home your fuel economy SUCKS. I don't baby the throttle so I don't expect hybrid MPG's, but getting 6 mpg less than the sticker estimate is rather disappointing. I just know NA motors get better MPG for my family and driving style.

And this is why I think that GM will opt for a simple, elegant answer to Silverado's engine needs with

something between 5.3 and 5.7 liters with torque between 385 and 430 lb ft and around 360-380 hp.

 

We took an extended test drive in a new EB fusion. Reset the MPG meter and copied a route my wife would take in her 2010 3.0L Fusion. Our V6 got better MPG and power felt the same. Needless to say we are holding out for the V6. If there isn't one either in regular or sport format in the next year or so we'll look elsewhere.

I would hope that Ford makes the 3.5 an option on the Fusion even though the take rate may be limited, some people just like a nice V6

[Biker16]

This generation of Eco Boost (and my GDI) seems to struggle at the margins where steady-state load fluctuates up and down.

 

Both engines have an Atkinson cycle mode that effectively lowers displacement by closing the intake valve later, but seems to have issues staying in that mode under marginal steady-state cruise like cruising above 65mph or over hilly terrain.

 

the result in my Focus is awesome economy over 40mpg for my manual focus at 60 mph, but closer to 33mpg at 75 mph.

 

Again the issue of combustion chamber temperatures, under load, requiring the fuel dump to prevent Detonation, heavy use of uncooled EGR, during lean burn operation.

 

The engine needs to run hot for economy but cool for performance, Its not easy, I frankly believe Ford doesn't spend enough fine tuning engine programming.

[OHV 16V]

Well, I honestly think the jury is still out on EB fuel economy. Yes, in a controlled EPA test it wins out, just like in the F-150's. In real world romping, stop and go, stop and go, 1 more stop and go because I live in traffic the MPG's suck. My truck gets worse MPG than the 5.0L and barely nudges the 6.2L (have friends with both). In the turbo motors we have to spool up all the time to get the vehicle moving, any onramp or just having a bad day and want to get home your fuel economy SUCKS. I don't baby the throttle so I don't expect hybrid MPG's, but getting 6 mpg less than the sticker estimate is rather disappointing. I just know NA motors get better MPG for my family and driving style. We took an extended test drive in a new EB fusion. Reset the MPG meter and copied a route my wife would take in her 2010 3.0L Fusion. Our V6 got better MPG and power felt the same. Needless to say we are holding out for the V6. If there isn't one either in regular or sport format in the next year or so we'll look elsewhere.

 

While I personally don't own an EcoBoost-equipped vehicle, I've heard the same things from my friends, relatives, and coworkers that do. At least it's working for Ford from a marketing/sales standpoint though, as evidenced by its take rate in the F-150. But yes, they're all saying the same type of things you are.

[aneekr]

This generation of Eco Boost (and my GDI) seems to struggle at the margins where steady-state load fluctuates up and down.

 

Both engines have an Atkinson cycle mode that effectively lowers displacement by closing the intake valve later, but seems to have issues staying in that mode under marginal steady-state cruise like cruising above 65mph or over hilly terrain.

 

the result in my Focus is awesome economy over 40mpg for my manual focus at 60 mph, but closer to 33mpg at 75 mph.

 

Again the issue of combustion chamber temperatures, under load, requiring the fuel dump to prevent Detonation, heavy use of uncooled EGR, during lean burn operation.

 

The engine needs to run hot for economy but cool for performance, Its not easy, I frankly believe Ford doesn't spend enough fine tuning engine programming.

 

Thanks for the technical analysis biker16. Very interesting indeed - I did not know about the Atkinson cycle mode in these engines.

[Biker16]

A Car sales in october

 

Spark 2137

500 3720

IQ 808

Smart 998

Total 7663

 

Total october 2011

2327

 

up 329% for October

 

for the year

 

Spark 8447 0

500 36,462 15,826

IQ 808 0

Smart 998 4084

Total 45,715 19,910

 

up 229% for 2012

 

 

New entrants into the A car market have grown the total A-car market also the A-car that retain a conventional Front engine car and is ~140in long ( spark and 500) are the most popular.

[BORG]

A Car sales in october

 

Spark 2137

500 3720

IQ 808

Smart 998

Total 7663

 

Total october 2011

2327

 

up 329% for October

 

for the year

 

Spark 8447 0

500 36,462 15,826

IQ 808 0

Smart 998 4084

Total 45,715 19,910

 

up 229% for 2012

 

 

New entrants into the A car market have grown the total A-car market also the A-car that retain a conventional Front engine car and is ~140in long ( spark and 500) are the most popular.

 

Anybody know what is going on with the next-gen Ka? Doesn't seem to be a Chevy Spark competitor.

[Biker16]

Anybody know what is going on with the next-gen Ka? Doesn't seem to be a Chevy Spark competitor.

 

I don;t know.

 

2 new entrants in to an Exsisting segment and the Segment growth accelerates.

 

The spark is a special case because it's the only car in the segment that has 4 doors.

 

I think ford would be wise to bring over the B-max and attack the gap B-C gap. and then bring over the Start (Ka Replacement) if the A-segment contiues to grow.