When will a Fusion Wagon be released??

[FordBuyer]

This is all based on your theory that a Fusion wagon would get far better fuel economy and people would buy them for that reason and that's hogwash. People prefer CUV styling over wagon styling - it's that simple.

 

There is a big difference between taking a chance on something new and throwing money down a hole trying the same thing that others have tried and failed at.

 

The Flex was different yet you hate it and say it wasn't successful. A wagon would be WAY worse.

 

So a Focus hatch which is more expensive than sedan gets worse fuel mileage with more cargo room for bulkier objects to boot? Didn't know that, and I doubt if Focus wagon would be down more than 1mpg at most compared to sedan. Ditto for Fusion. I almost bought a Taurus wagon when I bought my Taurus, and fuel mileage was very similar. It seems like just a few years ago we had the same argument over hatches after Ford eliminated them on Focus plus the wagon, and argument was the same....no one wanted hatches in America anymore. Ford wasn't even going to do a Fiesta hatch until Farley started being an advocate for one, and both the Fiesta and Focus hatch do well just a few short years later. Times change, and even quicker now. If Ford expects to sell way over 300,000 Fusions/year after going to two plants, a couple more models certainly would help like ST and Wagon. I don't see a Focus wagon in the cards because of hatch and Escape and C Max which are essentially tall Focuses. So that leaves the Fusion or maybe next generation Taurus that will probably be smaller and more economical than present one. Aero drag is only going to be more critical just as the present Escape doesn't sit quite as high as previous one. The day's of climbing up into your ride except for trucks are starting to dwindle as fuel mileage trumps all along with cleaner emissions.

[akirby]

If the market changes and people start demanding wagons then Ford can fill that demand pretty quickly. There would be a much bigger demand for wagons if we didn't have midsized crossovers like the Edge. Europeans like wagons - Americans like crossovers and SUVs.

 

Building something that has failed in the recent past just to see if MAYBE it will sell is not a good business practice unless you have evidence that the market is likely to change. And you don't.

 

As for hatchbacks - the market did change and Ford followed the market.

Edited December 9, 2012 by akirby

[FordBuyer]

If the market changes and people start demanding wagons then Ford can fill that demand pretty quickly. There would be a much bigger demand for wagons if we didn't have midsized crossovers like the Edge. Europeans like wagons - Americans like crossovers and SUVs.

 

Building something that has failed in the recent past just to see if MAYBE it will sell is not a good business practice unless you have evidence that the market is likely to change. And you don't.

 

As for hatchbacks - the market did change and Ford followed the market.

 

No, Ford LEAD the market. Cruze and Dart have no hatchback. Neither does Corolla or Civic. So Ford pretty much has market to itself except for Focus ST that competes against VW GTI hatch. Now in B segment Fiesta hatch does have some competition. And as Biker points out, Fusion is now global and it's just about bringing Wagon version over here just as Focus hatch is Euro global. And I still stand by my story about reading 18 months or so ago that Ford was thinking about exporting 30,000 or so Fusion/Mondeo wagons from Valencia plant to here. And I've heard that periodically Ford does take a look to see when it may be opportune time to do so. Or build it here at FRAP. But again, auto executives are pretty conservative and afraid to make decisions. Ford keeps bragging how flexible their retooled plants are...time to back it up with some different models like the C Max and Flex.

[mtberman]

If the market changes and people start demanding wagons then Ford can fill that demand pretty quickly. There would be a much bigger demand for wagons if we didn't have midsized crossovers like the Edge. Europeans like wagons - Americans like crossovers and SUVs.

 

Building something that has failed in the recent past just to see if MAYBE it will sell is not a good business practice unless you have evidence that the market is likely to change. And you don't.

 

As for hatchbacks - the market did change and Ford followed the market.

 

Yup, in Europe there are wagons everywhere. I love wagons and have owned several including a new Subaru Legacy wagon in 2005 and and a new Audi A4 wagon in 2010. The Legacy was dropped because they sold maybe 1 for every 100 Outbacks. The Audi was dropped because the Q5 (same platform but smaller cargo area and poorer mileage) outsold it significantly. Audi now sells the A4 wagon here only in the more expensive Allroad version.

 

Some of us love wagons and wish we had more choices, but for now there's not enough U.S. demand to justify carrying wagons here. Even Subaru, which had a decent wagon following and doesn't have the same exchange rate worries (Legacys all built in Indiana since the 90s) couldn't support a wagon.

 

Isn't it true that most Americans walk right past the logical/practical choices like a wagon or a minivan and get something based on image, like a crossover or SUV? We all know those vehicles are compromised in on-road handling and snow-driving, but you see them everywhere. Usually being driven on the highway by a suburban owner who never takes it out of the city. That's just how it is, like it or not. I think many of us buy based more on perception, while more Europeans and Canadians buy based on reality.

[akirby]

Isn't it true that most Americans walk right past the logical/practical choices like a wagon or a minivan and get something based on image, like a crossover or SUV?

 

Here we go again. Why does everyone who doesn't drive a crossover or SUV think that everyone who does only does it for image?

 

There is no "image" to driving an Escape, Edge or Expedition. None whatsoever. A blinged out Escalade on 24" wheels? Sure. But the majority of suv and cuv owners simply prefer either the utility and/or styling. My wife prefers the higher seating position.

[mtberman]

Here we go again. Why does everyone who doesn't drive a crossover or SUV think that everyone who does only does it for image?

 

There is no "image" to driving an Escape, Edge or Expedition. None whatsoever. A blinged out Escalade on 24" wheels? Sure. But the majority of suv and cuv owners simply prefer either the utility and/or styling. My wife prefers the higher seating position.

 

I can respect that you don't personally think SUVs and CUVs carry an image. But that may be because you're knowledgable enough to know that these vehicles are just cars underneath the trim and jacked up ride height. I mean, if most people knew that the Acura MDX is really just a Honda Odyssey (minivan) with an altered unibody and less practicality, do you think anyone would buy them? Those vehicles are made and sold for one reason, to satify buyers' desire for image.

 

Friends that ask my advice about cars almost always get hesitant when the most practical choices come up in conversation. As soon as the conversation drifts to more practical choices, I can see and hear the hesitation. They don't "want to be seen" in one. I personally think car executives probably notice this attitude, too, and it's what prevents companies like Ford from trying to certify a Fusion wagon for sale here.

 

About a year ago I was walking a Volvo lot with a friend who was looking at cars. A man and his wife were near us, and she walked up to a Volvo AWD wagon and gestured to it. He frowned and shook his head. She then stepped over to my then-new Audi A4 Avant (wagon) parked nearby, thinking it was a car for sale. She said something about the Volvo wagon and then said she liked the Audi more. Clearly this woman liked these Euro wagons. The man's reply was negative, something about how a "soccer mom car". He walked over to the line of Volvo XC90 sport utilities.

 

I recall discussing with my pal how typical that attitude is, especially here in colorado where we ahve mountains. So many of my friends and co-workers say those same things about cars. In Europe, practicality is more of virtue than here. Why else would so many guys buy F-series trucks and never use any of what they're capable of? Just my thoughts.

[theoldwizard]

Ford build "light vehicles" to make profit for their shareholders.

 

Ford has determine (right of wrong) that demand for wagons in the US is not high enough to be "profitable".

 

Don't expect Ford to be a "trend setter". Too risky. They are committed to being a "trend follower".

[xr7g428]

From a scientific marketing point of view the only thing that really matters is whether the incremental increase in cost is exceeded by the incremental increase in revenue producing an increase in total profit. We are not privy to the numbers. The real questions are: How many would sell, net of sales lost to other existing models (net number of new customers)? What would the incremental cost be to add such a model? What would the selling price need to be to cover both the increases fixed and variable costs? Finally, are there better more profitable alternatives?

 

Sometimes it helps to consider analogies because they allow one to distance themselves from bias (cultural meaning of SUV versus Station Wagon). A good analogy might be the decision of a shoe manufacturer about offering shoes in 1/2 sizes. They would need to know how many new customers they would gain,if the sales would cover the costs and still yield a profit, and if it might make more sense to offer a new style rather than just a new size in an existing style.

 

My own speculation runs like this: (my opinion, feel free to disregard) They would pick up about 10 to 15% new sales if they brought the wagon in. (Actual sales would be higher, this is net of cannibalistic losses) The incremental cost would be easy to determine as they are currently offering the vehicle in other markets with a similar sales volume. The lack of competitive product would allow for a slight price premium. As to alternatives, we just don't know what they have in the works. Finally, the benefit of globalization is the savings from offering the same product in as many markets as possible. You can't ignore the positive impact on amortization rates that will improve profitability on the global scale.

[FordBuyer]

Ford build "light vehicles" to make profit for their shareholders.

 

Ford has determine (right of wrong) that demand for wagons in the US is not high enough to be "profitable".

 

Don't expect Ford to be a "trend setter". Too risky. They are committed to being a "trend follower".

 

As in late to the party, but Ford has been a trend setter with Focus hatch and in some respects the C Max also. And trends constantly change, and even faster now as wagons could be in for a bit of a sales spurt with fuel mileage becoming such important factor in buying, and every summer driving season bringing ever higher fuel price spikes. Ford builds the Escape at only one plant, and C Max is production constrained. So a Fusion wagon could pick up some of the slack if fuel prices continue to spike ever higher especially adding in summer storms and continued Arab unrest. A Fusion I4 wagon beats the Escape at fuel mileage game.

[akirby]

Some people think that additional sales always yield more profit (which we know is total BS). Or they just want a mfr to build something THEY want to buy regardless of the business case. Or they think that if the mfr builds something that doesn't have a market today that it will somehow magically create a new market yielding big future profits.

 

And of course they think they know more about market trends than the auto mfrs who have entire organizations who do that for a living.

[aneekr]

Read something about a spring 2013 release?

 

Back to your original question JimmyL57, the latest info from Ford indicates significant delays are expected for launch of the fifth generation Mondeo.

 

The UK site HonestJohn states: "[Mondeo] Launch delayed by closure of Ford's Belgian factory at Genk. Mondeo, S-Max and Galaxy to be built at Valencia, Spain. On sale date put back from spring to autumn 2013. Delayed again until late 2014 due to closure of Genk factory."

 

So if a Fusion wagon variant is sold in the Americas (and I sure hope it is), it seems unlikely to arrive any sooner than about two years from now.

[FordBuyer]

Back to your original question JimmyL57, the latest info from Ford indicates significant delays are expected for launch of the fifth generation Mondeo.

 

The UK site HonestJohn states: "[Mondeo] Launch delayed by closure of Ford's Belgian factory at Genk. Mondeo, S-Max and Galaxy to be built at Valencia, Spain. On sale date put back from spring to autumn 2013. Delayed again until late 2014 due to closure of Genk factory."

 

So if a Fusion wagon variant is sold in the Americas (and I sure hope it is), it seems unlikely to arrive any sooner than about two years from now.

 

If Ford expects to sell 350,000+ Fusions/year in North America, it's going to need more than S, SE, and Titanium SEDANS only. I feel there is better business case for wagon than hatch, ST, and/or coupe. With fuel prices expected to go up in future, more customers need cargo space and 4 doors rather than some 350 HP model or some model with only 2 doors. I would vote for Wagon and ST models being added, since some who buy Mustang would like high performance Ford mid sizer with 4 doors and bigger trunk. Look at the Wagon as a sedan model with bigger trunk and opening for bulky objects, much like Hatch, but Ford has 2 hatches already, and Ford is the wagon king, and future of Flex is in doubt and besides its fuel mileage is very mediocre since Ford decided it wasn't worth effort and money to offer 2.0 EB.

[Phugoff]

And that might not be soon with the rise in popularity of the SUV/Crossover. The only mainstream wagons I see listed when I look in the category are the Subaru Outback and Dodge Caliber... there are a few others but they seem to be rather high in price.

And someone, somewhere managed to convince the general public they are "crossover" utility vehicles

[akirby]

If Ford expects to sell 350,000+ Fusions/year in North America, it's going to need more than S, SE, and Titanium SEDANS only.

 

How many different body styles does the best selling Camry use?

[jniffen]

Just joining in on this.

 

I too wish that Ford would bring over the Mondeo Wagon, but I think I've caught the main reason that CUV/SUV win over wagons.

 

I was noticing a mother putting her kid in the car seat in an Escape while I was walking by in aprking lot a few weeks ago.

 

What caught my attention was she didn't have to bend down to put the kid in. Once she pick him/her up it was a straight shot.

In a wagon she would have to bend down and I'm thinking that is the major reason wagons won't sell as much.

 

Also, a station wagon was what my grandpa/ma drove and a mini van is what my mom/dad drove. I'm much cooler that they were.

 

Again, I'd be for a Focus Wagon, but I feel the odds are against it.

[Fuze]

+1 vote for the hatch version !

[bbosaw51]

i had 2 Taurus wagons. I could haul 16 foot lumber with that flip open rear window. Who needs a truck?

[jasonj80]

My Theory with wagons is this -- why would Ford have a wagon where they could maybe get $1000 more than a sedan version. A SUV/CUV is ~$5000 more.

A loaded '13 Edge is 42,500 sticker, a Loaded '13 Fusion is 38,000. I suspect when the new Edge comes out there will be a bigger gap than that as well. Want a Focus with more room? We have a Escape or C-max for that.

[akirby]

My Theory with wagons is this -- why would Ford have a wagon where they could maybe get $1000 more than a sedan version. A SUV/CUV is ~$5000 more.

 

A loaded '13 Edge is 42,500 sticker, a Loaded '13 Fusion is 38,000. I suspect when the new Edge comes out there will be a bigger gap than that as well. Want a Focus with more room? We have a Escape or C-max for that.

 

Winner winner chicken dinner!

[JimmyL57]

The auto manufacturers need to look at their products for the "Pre Owned market" just as they produce movies for movie house first run but DVD and Blue Ray sales. Once the wagon line was produced If not first New Sales the Pre Owned Sales Market would prosper with these cars. Notice how many older Taurus, Freestyle and Focus wagons you see on the street. The resale market for the Escape is now huge profit especially now since the new model.

[akirby]

Why would Ford or any mfr give a rats behind about the used car market? If anything the used car market takes sales away from new cars. And if nobody buys them new then they won't be available used.

[jniffen]

Why would Ford or any mfr give a rats behind about the used car market? If anything the used car market takes sales away from new cars. And if nobody buys them new then they won't be available used.

 

It could help their dealerships with maintenance etc.

[Biker16]

My Theory with wagons is this -- why would Ford have a wagon where they could maybe get $1000 more than a sedan version. A SUV/CUV is ~$5000 more.

 

A loaded '13 Edge is 42,500 sticker, a Loaded '13 Fusion is 38,000. I suspect when the new Edge comes out there will be a bigger gap than that as well. Want a Focus with more room? We have a Escape or C-max for that.

 

the Wagon will have $>1500 Premium over the sedan.

 

To some buyers that need the extra flexibility of wagon without the extras bulk and higher running costs of a CUV.

 

comparing the Fuel Economy of a the Fusion Sedan, to that of the edge.

 

City/HWY/Combined

EB16 Fusion 25/37/29

 

EB20 Edge 21/30/24

 

Fusion dominates 19%/23%/21% in fuel economy.

 

Imagine what a hybrid Fusion Wagon could do.

 

If you value driving the Fusion wins hands down.

[logatron]

Imagine what a hybrid Fusion Wagon could do.

As nice as a wagon Fusion Hybrid may sound, the American market will never pick something up like that. Especially when most automakers can't move gas wagons here.

[rshanks66]

Today's crossovers are yesterday's wagons. Many of the CUVs on the market today use the same platform as their sedan cousin. Americans just like CUVs better. And I'm someone who loves sporty wagons like the Audi A4 Avant, Volvo wagons and BMW 3-series.