RichardJensen Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 dealer is now giving him the run around. Your words. Not mine. Certainly sounds to me like the dealer is untrustworthy. At least that's how you seemed to take it. And when you consider that providing a quality loaner is the dealer's responsibility, not Ford's, and that the vehicle has been in the shop for >20 days with the hose clamp first alleged to have been replaced and now alleged not to have been replaced, that again sounds like the dealer, not Ford. Did Ford instruct the dealer to lie to your FIL about whether the repairs had been completed? Did Ford force the dealer to provide a crappy loaner? In fact, I have a hard time believing that a competent service department---you know, one that could actually track whether or not a repair had been made---would've had your FIL's car this long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 how many of you readers would be ok with the way Ford is handling this. I want to know why you're ok with how the dealer has handled this. The dealer told you that the repair had been made. Then they said it hadn't. Now they're telling you that Ford can't figure out what to do with the motor. Why would you believe anything they tell you that tends to pass the buck, given that you've already caught them in a lie? And further, while I haven't had to deal with Ford's warranty department in a long time, it certainly seems odd to me that Ford would have no chain of authorization for warranty work, such that "engineering" and "the motor plant" (whatever that means) could bicker endlessly over whether or not a replacement should be made. I'm certainly willing to hit Ford for screwing things up: The scored fuel lines, the report that Ford turned off lasers resulting in poorly fit Focus body panels. Clearly these are failures by Ford. But you're not doing a very good job of convincing me that a dealer that has already lied to you once is telling the truth now, especially since this alleged 'truth' has the effect of absolving them of all blame and responsibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jam Posted July 31, 2012 Author Share Posted July 31, 2012 Rich, a lot more has going on with this than I've posted. What I forgot to mention was that the gentleman that does the write-ups at the dealer took a few day off. When he returned he didn't have all the info and told my father in-law the wrong stuff. With that said we are now dealing with Ford and not the dealer. We are expecting a call Tuesday morning from Dearborn. I will post the results of that when I get it. You want to know why I am ok with the dealer...The sales manager is a personal friend, we go way back and I know he wouldn't screw me over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Rich, a lot more has going on with this than I've posted. What I forgot to mention was that the gentleman that does the write-ups at the dealer took a few day off. When he returned he didn't have all the info and told my father in-law the wrong stuff. With that said we are now dealing with Ford and not the dealer. We are expecting a call Tuesday morning from Dearborn. I will post the results of that when I get it. You want to know why I am ok with the dealer...The sales manager is a personal friend, we go way back and I know he wouldn't screw me over. Well that does put things in a different light. However, I still don't think you're getting the whole story about the dialog with Ford concerning engine replacement, etc. That does not sound like the way a company that handles millions of dollars of warranty work handles even escalated warranty issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonj80 Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 You want to know why I am ok with the dealer...The sales manager is a personal friend, we go way back and I know he wouldn't screw me over. So emotion is getting in the way. Don't think for a minute your friend wouldn't screw you over to save his own job and lively hood -- he is walking a very difficult fine line. Did the Dealer call Ford Field Service after they couldn't fix it to have one of the Field guys look at it? This seems to have fallen though cracks at the dealer with vacations and such, It is unacceptable for this to be going on -- the car will be bought back under the lemon law and I would tell Ford that when you talk to them. You're at 25 days now and if the car goes in for anything over the next year it basically will exceed that. Ford will talk to the dealer and get the whole story as well as review what has been billed for this repair. Ford needs to replace the vehicle now, if it was my car I would make sure that thing was in the shop for 6 more days to be replaced under the lemon law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jam Posted August 1, 2012 Author Share Posted August 1, 2012 Latest update on the in-laws escape... Father in-law talked to both the Ford Rep and the services manager yesterday and was told that they are still waiting on the RIGHT PARTS. Expecting them today, no car as of 6:00 PM. They also told him that they are aware of the lemon law, and that the car has to be out of the shop by Friday night. (30 days). Part that they are waiting on is some kind of a seal, and that the first two that were sent were the wrong size. This I find hard to believe, but will wait and see. Jason, I have real friends, they would never screw me. Sad that you think your friends would you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 (edited) Latest update on the in-laws escape... Father in-law talked to both the Ford Rep and the services manager yesterday and was told that they are still waiting on the RIGHT PARTS. Expecting them today, no car as of 6:00 PM. They also told him that they are aware of the lemon law, and that the car has to be out of the shop by Friday night. (30 days). Part that they are waiting on is some kind of a seal, and that the first two that were sent were the wrong size. This I find hard to believe, but will wait and see. Jason, I have real friends, they would never screw me. Sad that you think your friends would you. Im not defending the dealer at all, but sadly this happens frequently upon new releases, parts availability always seems to be an issue at new releases as stocks are just "coming up to speed " as such. ironically i walk past 15 or so 1.6 eco Escpaes every day with "Do Not Drive or Sell" emblazened on their winsheilds...problem?...yep, they are awaiting replacement fuel lines due to lack of available parts inventories....sorry you are bearing the brunt of whats really an unavoidable issue if there is in fact an issue. Parts stockpiles dont come up to snuff for several months. Edited August 1, 2012 by Deanh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonj80 Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 Jason, I have real friends, they would never screw me. Sad that you think your friends would you. I would have the car for 10min then take it back to the dealer with something else wrong. From parts availability to dealer screw up to just general incompetence on the dealer/Ford (during the downturn Ford gutted dealer and powertrain support people) There might not be anything worng with the car now that it is fixed but for me I would just feel better with a new car. I have a feeling though your in-laws would just get a refund of what they paid and get something else. Which in the end might just be the best thing for you. (though you can secretly hope that he goes through the same thing with whatever car he ends up with - lol) He may not screw you, but you might not get the whole truth out of him if his job could be on the line. If you really expect that your friend would tell you something and lose his job then you're not a very good friend, I would never ask or put my friend in that position. Put yourself in his shoes -- would you tell him something that would get you fired from your job? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonj80 Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Any update? Did they get the car back to your in-laws by Friday, or are you now bound by the I can't talk clause. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boppergee Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 I've been following this odyssey as well, what's the latest? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tennisfam4 Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 (edited) Yes that would be nice. I have been following this also. Edited August 8, 2012 by tennisfam4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jam Posted August 8, 2012 Author Share Posted August 8, 2012 Sorry it’s taken me so long to reply. The latest on the in-laws escape is this... Ford has decided to replace the motor, and my in-laws have agreed to this fix. If the new motor is delivered to the dealer today (Tuesday) they will have their car back on Friday, if it is delivered on Wednesday they will get it back Monday. So if the vehicle is back in there garage by Monday that will have been 40 days in the shop. The Ohio lemon law does apply to this vehicle and Ford has worked out a deal with the in-laws that make them happy. If they are happy I sure the hell am happy. I'll post more about the deal after the vehicle is finished, and returned to the in-laws. I just wish Ford would have worked this out weeks ago. If you remember in my first post Ford engineers said it was not repairable, and wanted to replace the motor back then. Ford should have listened to the engineers, that's what they pay them for. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrewfanGRB Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 Sorry it’s taken me so long to reply. The latest on the in-laws escape is this... Ford has decided to replace the motor, and my in-laws have agreed to this fix. I just wish Ford would have worked this out weeks ago. If you remember in my first post Ford engineers said it was not repairable, and wanted to replace the motor back then. Ford should have listened to the engineers, that's what they pay them for. I'm happy to hear there was an outcome that made your in-laws happy. I suspect they aren't really HAPPY, per se, but are satisfied it will be done right eventually. Usually the corporate engineers want to repair vs replace--I imagine they feel pressure to keep costs down, too, etc. But if an engineer says replace it, Ford should be doing that--particularly on a new vehicle so important to the company. That action is rather disappointing. And candidly, your in-laws seem to be taking this more reasonably and rationally that I would be...because once it was qualified under lemon law, my negotiation would be as simple as: "Here are your options: Give me a new 13 Escape with the same color and options or give me every penny I paid back." They could've had this done in 2 weeks or less, but chose not to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blwnsmoke Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 I hope Ford is paying at least 3 monthly payments plus gives them the 7yr/125k, $0 deductible premium care warranty. That is the only way I would have been satisfied. Very disappointed in how Ford handled this. Cant wait to hear the rest. Best of luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hydro Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 I hope Ford is paying at least 3 monthly payments plus gives them the 7yr/125k, $0 deductible premium care warranty. That is the only way I would have been satisfied. Very disappointed in how Ford handled this. Cant wait to hear the rest. Best of luck. Yep, don't let them take delivery until a sweetheart deal like this is approved. at the very least free oil changes for the next 3 years or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jam Posted August 10, 2012 Author Share Posted August 10, 2012 The latest on the escape... They did not get it back today, Ford told them they would have it Monday. I'll keep everyone posted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crowdogg Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 Never buy the first model year of an all new vehicle. You are the guinea pig. EXACTLY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F250 Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 A faulty supplier hose clamp is hardly a shocking, panic driven development. Now if you are on the Space Shuttle, and Houston says we have a problem, I would listen, but full out panic doesn't help. Thank god Ford engineers are an analytical lot that will look at the problem, and come up with a fix quickly and effectively. No need to jump off the ship yet. Customers do not want to hear it. Ford and other manufacturers charge big bucks for these vehicles and buyers do not want excuses. Forget the "supplier problem" excuse, that sounds like Ford refusing to take responsibility for the failure. It doesnt say Acme hose clamp on the grille it says FORD. And let's not forget Ford supplied the design and is still responsible for quality control. Two examples: My previous truck was a 2003 F250 5.4L that I bought brand new (explains my name here) that truck peed oil on my driveway in less than 1,000 miles. The engine's rear main oil seal had to be replaced which of course required some time and removal of the transmission. After 2 follow-up visits to elliminate noises causes by sloppy dealer tech reassembly the problem was corrected. They gave me a little Focus to drive while my brand new F250 was down...thanks. I considered this failure an assembly problem not a design defect, someone at the Windsor plant had a bad day, it happens. My current truck is a 2006 F150 4x4 5.4 that I also bought brand new and it has been trouble free until last week when ESP paid to replace the brake booster & master cylinder (noise) and the instrument cluster assy (short). But I like all 2004-2008 3-valve owners know we have to deal with a design defect with the spark plugs. This is different. It is not a single assembly mistake it was a defect that was designed in and put into production. Ford tested those engines for many thousands of miles and then disassembled them to look for problems...it is impossible they never ran into the broken spark plug problem. They made a choice to save money by not redesigning the cylinder heads before launching the 3v engine, only after owner pressure did they correct the problem...4 years later. And this was on the most popular vehicle they sell, the cash cow of the company. I'm not just beating up on Ford all manufacturers charge big bucks and make big promises about their vehicles to get people to buy, then they break out the book of excuses when they fall on their ass. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transitman Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 Customers do not want to hear it. Ford and other manufacturers charge big bucks for these vehicles and buyers do not want excuses. Forget the "supplier problem" excuse, that sounds like Ford refusing to take responsibility for the failure. It doesnt say Acme hose clamp on the grille it says FORD. And let's not forget Ford supplied the design and is still responsible for quality control. Ford took quick and decisive action to take care of this issue. It wasn't a Ford problem, it was a problem with the supplier who damaged the part in the manufacturing process. Ford engine assembly can't check every part for quality control, that's the responsibility of the supplier. Post engine build and vehicle quality checks obviously didn't detect a problem. It wasn't discovered until the vehicle was being driven in a real world setting. My guess is the limited supply of the parts for the initial build, testing and early roll out where not mass produced and were not damaged. By taking quick action Ford is admitting there was a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F250 Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 (edited) Ford took quick and decisive action to take care of this issue. It wasn't a Ford problem, it was a problem with the supplier who damaged the part in the manufacturing process. Ford engine assembly can't check every part for quality control, that's the responsibility of the supplier. Post engine build and vehicle quality checks obviously didn't detect a problem. It wasn't discovered until the vehicle was being driven in a real world setting. My guess is the limited supply of the parts for the initial build, testing and early roll out where not mass produced and were not damaged. By taking quick action Ford is admitting there was a problem. Yes of course they are admitting there is a problem, hard not to when oil is dripping on the ground. Once again it is a Ford problem to the customer and I would never try to blame a supplier. You have to think from the customer's perspective and take responsibility not make excusses about suppliers. By the way that thing failed pretty damn quick, 63 miles! Yes, quality control could never catch something that elusive. edit: corrected mileage Edited August 11, 2012 by F250 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transitman Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 I forgot we were posting in the 2013 Escape oil leak thread. I was referring to the fuel line recall. I've been reading this thread and thought Ford should have done more earlier and not kept the customers car so long. I think some of the delay was due to parts availability of the new fuel line, but, also, engineers always seem to want to fix an issue before swapping out an engine or replacing the vehicle. In this case, Ford should have been more honest with the customer and kept them informed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 There is a huge difference between fault and responsibility. It's ultimately Ford's responsibility and I don't see Ford trying to shirk that. They're responsible for every vehicle they sell and they are fixing them. Pointing out that it was a part problem caused by a manufacturing defect is the truth and it would make me feel better that they knew exactly what failed and why and that it would not reoccur. Regardless of how much something costs, you can't expect something so mechanically complicated to never ever have a problem. It's just not realistic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrewfanGRB Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 Once again it is a Ford problem to the customer and I would never try to blame a supplier. You have to think from the customer's perspective and take responsibility not make excusses about suppliers. So, if I'm understanding you correctly, you are either: a) the first known person in the modern civilized world to have never made a mistake or B) been fired from every job you've ever had. Right? I mean, after all, in your world, mistakes don't happen and when something goes wrong, that's failure, not a mistake. In your world, explanations are excuses. You're 3 mins late during a blizzard? FIRED. Your explanation of bad weather is an EXCUSE. Leave earlier. Presented a report missing a page because a team member forgot to include it? You're FIRED. Saying the team member forgot the page is an EXCUSE. Your fault for not double checking. Work in a factory and applied a nut with the wrong torque because the wrench was miscalibrated? FIRED. Blaming your employer for not calibrating it is an EXCUSE. You should verify this yourself. See where I'm going here?? You adopt the philosophy that everything is an excuse, then all of a sudden the spotlight on YOU becomes pretty bright and it turns out that gee, you're not so perfect after all. If you're a rational adult, you understand that all levels of life, humans are involved in decisions and actions. Humans make mistakes. Sometimes because they are lazy, apathetic or poorly suited to the task. But they don't mistakes for those reasons all the time (or really, anywhere near a plurarity of the cause). They make mistakes because they are human. Unintentional distraction, unexpected events, relatively uncontrollable outside factors. I've always believed that while I wished and hoped that nothing wrong would happen, that things do go wrong. How an organization RESPONDS is the best indicator of the quality of the organization. You can do business with an organziation for a long time and never have anything go wrong. You think they are the greatest thing ever. Then something goes wrong and they completely fail in their response. How great is that organization, really? You've clearly allowed your personal experience here with your vehicle to turn into some hyperbolic railing against "excuses". The truth is, suppliers are used in the industry. Maybe that's not the best approach. But the whole industry uses them and millions of vehicles are produced every year, nearly all of them without serious defects. It's not plausible or reasonable to inspect every individual component from every supplier. I think (or perhaps, I HOPE) you know this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F250 Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 See where I'm going here?? You adopt the philosophy that everything is an excuse, then all of a sudden the spotlight on YOU becomes pretty bright and it turns out that gee, you're not so perfect after all. ... How an organization RESPONDS is the best indicator of the quality of the organization. I gave two examples one was a simple assembly mistake which I have no problem with, and the other was a decision by Ford to put a design defect into production because it would have cost too much to change the spark plug/cylinder head design before launch. The purpose of testing is to find and correct these problems before customers recieve the vehicle but it's a waste of time if Ford doesnt follow through. And how did Ford respond to this new Escape owner? It took two weeks to fix the oil leak. Three to four days would have been plenty considering parts can be shipped overnight to the dealership. In the end it really was no rush after all since the dealer completed the oil leak repair only to tell the customer there is now a fuel leak recall and he still cant have his brand new Ford back! Yea, you're right the service writer should have ended that conversation with "Hey, nobody's perfect." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 considering parts can be shipped overnight to the dealership Right. Because Ford's warehouses are just stuffed to overflowing with 2013 Escape parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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