akirby Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Lemon law I would think only applies if issue is severe and can't be fixed after repeated tries. It's like dealer and manufacturer finally threw their hands up and said we can't remedy your problem or problems. And I would think it would have to be a safety issue like stalling in traffic or overly mushy brakes that extend stopping distances, severe driveability problems, and the such. Or an oil leak that can't be fixed for some reason and leaves spotting wherever you go and constant dipstick or trans checking. Lemon laws are for severe, vexing problems, not even many, minor problems easily fixable and solved quickly. Nope. Any problem that occurs repeatedly or multiple visits for different problems usually triggers a lemon law buyback (although this varies by state). It doesn't have to be a major issue or a safety issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jam Posted July 28, 2012 Author Share Posted July 28, 2012 Latest on the in-laws escape.... it's still in the shop and the oil leak still has not been fixed, don't know if it is parts or what, dealer is now giving him the run around. Don't know if the fuel line recall has been fixed either. The car has been in the shop for a total of 24 days now. He picked up the title from the dealer yesterday and got no answers from the service department. He's threatening to trade it for a Chevy Equinox when he gets it back, and he's mad enough to do it. Wouldn't that look great - a brand new 2013 Ford Escape with 63 miles on it setting on a Chevy lot for sale! I'm hoping the lemon law kicks in first. I'll never talk another family member into buying a Ford product, too much BS . fordbuyer... Ohio lemon law according to Ohio Attorney General Mike Dewine's website states: If you can answer yes to any of the following 4 questions the manufacturer has had a reasonable opportunity to repair your vehicle under Ohio law. In the 1st year or 18,000 miles, whichever occurs 1st - have 3 or more attempts been made to repair one problem and then the problem continues to exist or occurs again? has the vehicle been in the shop for cumulative total of 30 days or more? have 8 or more attempts been made to fix different problems? has one unsuccessful attempt been made to fix a problem that could cause death or serious injury? If you answered yes to at least one of these 4 questions you have the legal right to ask the manufacturer to replace the lemon or refund the entire purchas price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 He's threatening to trade it for a Chevy Equinox when he gets it back, and he's mad enough to do it. replace the lemon or refund the entire purchas price. He'll love his new Chev. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twmalonehunter Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 (edited) Well it seems to me he WILL love it if it doesn't break within a week. I love Ford and understand shit happens but I would be pretty pissed at this point. At the very least he should be driving around in some kind of brand new loaner. Edited July 28, 2012 by twmalonehunter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jam Posted July 28, 2012 Author Share Posted July 28, 2012 Well it seems to me he WILL love it if it doesn't break within a week. I love Ford and understand shit happens but I would be pretty pissed at this point. At the very least he should be driving around in some kind of brand new loaner. I agree a new loaner would have been nice, better communication would have help also. He was told last week that the oil leak was fixed and they were waiting on the parts for the fuel line. They just told him Thursday it's still not fixed. I talked to customer service up north, and they are trying to get things done but nothing yet. I worked for Ford 32 years and will always drive a Ford . I understand things happen, but the in-laws just don't buy it. They expect 100% no defects for a $30,000.00 car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elmy311 Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 I never recommend cars anymore because you just never know when you'll get a bad one. My neighbor said this to me just yesterday as well. Back in 2005 he bought a loaded Ford 500 and swore up and down about it all year to all his buddies. So the following year his friend finally listened to him and got an 06 and from day one had nothing but problems with it. Between the CVT, wheel bearings, his A/C computer, to ABS sensors he had nothing but problems with up until he traded it in on a Buick Lacrosse in summer of 2010. Of course, he had that car for all of 6 months until it overheated and left him on the side of the road (something at least the 500 never did). But that is all the trouble he had with the Buick so now he is swearing up and down about it! Nice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FPVFalcom Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Latest on the in-laws escape.... it's still in the shop and the oil leak still has not been fixed, don't know if it is parts or what, dealer is now giving him the run around. Don't know if the fuel line recall has been fixed either. The car has been in the shop for a total of 24 days now. He picked up the title from the dealer yesterday and got no answers from the service department. He's threatening to trade it for a Chevy Equinox when he gets it back, and he's mad enough to do it. Wouldn't that look great - a brand new 2013 Ford Escape with 63 miles on it setting on a Chevy lot for sale! I'm hoping the lemon law kicks in first. I'll never talk another family member into buying a Ford product, too much BS . fordbuyer... Ohio lemon law according to Ohio Attorney General Mike Dewine's website states: If you can answer yes to any of the following 4 questions the manufacturer has had a reasonable opportunity to repair your vehicle under Ohio law. In the 1st year or 18,000 miles, whichever occurs 1st - have 3 or more attempts been made to repair one problem and then the problem continues to exist or occurs again? has the vehicle been in the shop for cumulative total of 30 days or more? have 8 or more attempts been made to fix different problems? has one unsuccessful attempt been made to fix a problem that could cause death or serious injury? If you answered yes to at least one of these 4 questions you have the legal right to ask the manufacturer to replace the lemon or refund the entire purchas price. I think he should get something else. This is simply unacceptable for a brand new vehicle. I think he's rather foolish for sticking with the problematic 2013 Escape for this long. Obviously Ford and the dealer don't have the first clue as to how to get him back on the road...time to jump ship. I feel for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 I think he should go straight over the dealer's head to Ford and talk to them direct, it's obvious that the dealer is not genuine about solving the problem, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papilgee4evaeva Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 I understand things happen, but the in-laws just don't buy it. They expect 100% no defects for a $30,000.00 car. We're gonna start seeing this kind of stuff more often as the median new car price continues to increase. $30K isn't luxury territory anymore (my mom's old Benz was $30K new in '94). Unfortunate, but that's how the times go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carguy Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 I think he should go straight over the dealer's head to Ford and talk to them direct, it's obvious that the dealer is not genuine about solving the problem, Ford owns no stock in the dealership. There is nobody at Ford over the dealers head. And do you really think that the dealer is not fixing this just to piss the owner off? The can dealer can only do what Ford suggests with the parts they are give. The dealer did not design, contract suppliers for parts or manufacture the vehicle. He is just trying to fix the engineers and assembly works mistakes. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transitman Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Ford owns no stock in the dealership. There is nobody at Ford over the dealers head. And do you really think that the dealer is not fixing this just to piss the owner off? The can dealer can only do what Ford suggests with the parts they are give. The dealer did not design, contract suppliers for parts or manufacture the vehicle. He is just trying to fix the engineers and assembly works mistakes. I know there are good and bad dealerships out there, but it's hard for me to believe that a dealership's service department would deliberately do bad work, slow work or no work at all if it was needed. Sales, service and parts work together to make a good dealership or they don’t stay in business long. I guess I'm one of the lucky ones, I have two dealership service departments in my area that do great work and give excellent customer service. Part of customer service is communicating with the customer. The new part for the fuel line fix is still at least a week out and they should be telling jam's parents that up front. As far as the oil leak, maybe they haven’t figured it out yet and don’t want to admit that. Making threats to buy an Equinox isn't going to get them anywhere, the service guy is probably thinking who cares, I'll still get paid on Friday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MY93SHO Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Huh? Why didn't they replace the whole engine on a brand-new sled? Cost to repair versus replace. If it pencils out cheaper to fix it that's what you do. Welcome to the world of warranty repairs. Pistons are hard to get but you think whole engines are lying around? Bottom line, at that time parts availabilty was very thin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Ford owns no stock in the dealership. There is nobody at Ford over the dealers head. And do you really think that the dealer is not fixing this just to piss the owner off? The can dealer can only do what Ford suggests with the parts they are give. The dealer did not design, contract suppliers for parts or manufacture the vehicle. He is just trying to fix the engineers and assembly works mistakes. IMO, they are not trying hard enough, a concientous dealer that's being screwed around by Ford would be keeping in regular contact with his customer but see that is not happening, they are closing ranks and not talking to him.... Under Ohio Lemon laws, they have one more week to fix his vehicle.. Maybe get onto the local news, it could be an interesting story - the first 2013 Escape to be called a Lemon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MY93SHO Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 I agree a new loaner would have been nice, better communication would have help also. He was told last week that the oil leak was fixed and they were waiting on the parts for the fuel line. They just told him Thursday it's still not fixed. I talked to customer service up north, and they are trying to get things done but nothing yet. I worked for Ford 32 years and will always drive a Ford . I understand things happen, but the in-laws just don't buy it. They expect 100% no defects for a $30,000.00 car. Equinox's spend time in the shop too. We've got several that have been in multiple times for multiple problems. As far as 100% no defects, they do know cars are still built by humans right? Flawed humans that make mistakes. Time for someone to have a "come to Jesus" moment with your inlaws and get their expectations down to a reasonable level. So if a multi-million dollar plane has a problem do they expect everyone that touched it to be shot? $75,000 Bimmer breaks down, cut off someones arm? Sounds like they enjoy being stubborn and stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jam Posted July 30, 2012 Author Share Posted July 30, 2012 my93sho... Read the first post by me, my father in-law has been a chevy buyer for as long as I have know him. He has had Chevy's that has had problems, that's not what he is complaining about. His first Ford and it has been in the shop for almost 30 days! All of his Chevy's combined weren't in the shop that long! He only put 63 miles on it. Would you be as understanding if you got to drive your 93 SHO for 3 days out of the first 26 you owned it? I don't care if monkeys built it, for $30,000.00 I even expect 100% no defects. I sat though a lot of quality meeting when I worked at Ford (at least one a year) and all they talked about was 100% NO DEFECTS. As I stated earlier I 'm a Ford man to the bone I will always buy Ford. I just would like to see Ford step up to the plate and make this right! They screwed up now they need to fix it. Do you not agree? One more thing if this were a Equinox he would have had 60 days to return it, for a full refund. This tells me GM expects 100% no defects in there products, and are willing to back it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 "100% no defects" Dude. Look at the top score for JDP's IQS (first 120 days ownership). Scores for the best makes suggest that you can be a top performer if you have customer perceived defects on 85% of your product within the first 120 says Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrewfanGRB Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 I don't care if monkeys built it, for $30,000.00 I even expect 100% no defects. If I didn't know better, I'd say this was your father, not your father-in-law. You're both equally irrationally unreasonable. Does this suck? Utterly. Is the dealer's communication and handling acceptable? Not at all--inexcusable. But look at what you wrote--you've allowed hyperbole and emotion to take over here: "I expect 100% no defects." How have you kept the job you have now? I guarantee you, you've made at least 1 mistake in your career...and hopefully, you're paid more than $30,000 a year by your employer. I guess it's ok for you to get paid to make mistakes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrewfanGRB Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 One more thing if this were a Equinox he would have had 60 days to return it, for a full refund. This tells me GM expects 100% no defects in there products, and are willing to back it up. NOW. If he'd bought his Equinox 6 months ago, he would not have that 60 day refund guarantee. So I guess those vehicles aren't defect free, but the ones built now are? Also: Your post is not 100% defect free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Also: Your post is not 100% defect free. But we didn't pay $30k for it... :hysterical2: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tennisfam4 Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 80, 90, 100% who the hell really cares! Bottom line Ford screwed this thing up. They should have dropped a new motor in this vehicle and got the customer back in his car. Now they are four days away from buying it back, under the LEMON LAW, that will cost a lot more than a new motor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 80, 90, 100% who the hell really cares! Bottom line Ford screwed this thing up. They should have dropped a new motor in this vehicle and got the customer back in his car. Now they are four days away from buying it back, under the LEMON LAW, that will cost a lot more than a new motor. It's not Ford's fault if the dealer is too incompitent to repair it in a timely manner...and FWIW, even a new engine wouldn't solve the problem with the fuel lines, which may or may not available on new engines yet anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PREMiERdrum Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 It's not Ford's fault if the dealer is too incompitent to repair it in a timely manner...and FWIW, even a new engine wouldn't solve the problem with the fuel lines, which may or may not available on new engines yet anyway. You and your rational thought aren't welcome here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev-Mo Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Don't want to argue with anyone who thinks they can rationally justify what is happening to this guy - so if you don't agree with me we can agree to disagree. In general, I do not believe that this single bad experience will dictate how this customer will like the car over its expected life. People are far too emotional when going through something like this –threatening to trade it in – etc. The new Escape is a really nice vehicle. It would be well worth it to be patient and get through this bad experience in order to give the car a chance to be good. I think the chances are far better that once this vehicle is fixed, it may be the best car that this person has ever owned and they may completely love it after a year or two. That being said, I just want to add - IMHO: 1. No excuse for this fiasco and the terrible customer experience. 2. No rational defense for what his customer is going through! It is an embarrassment for Ford and the independent selling/servicing dealer. 3. Lying to customer is never, ever good. Treating a customer like that is despicable. Tell the customer openly and honestly what is wrong with the vehicle. This is a defective hose clamp - really? A defective hose clamp can't be fixed in 25 days? Doesn't pass the smell test! If it is indeed a defective hose clamp and the parts are a month away - then tell the customer that his brand new $30K vehicle is going to sit there for one month and give him a better car to drive. Sometimes I think they spend more time and money indirectly lying and trying to jerk people around than if they gave them a new car for gosh sake! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 It's already been pointed out that this dealer has a lousy reputation. If I were steering a Ford-averse relative to a Ford product, I would keep them away from dealerships with bad reputations. But that's on the dealer, not Ford. It's pointless to rail at Ford concerning deceptive and oily dealer practices, there's dang little they can do about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jam Posted July 30, 2012 Author Share Posted July 30, 2012 It's already been pointed out that this dealer has a lousy reputation. If I were steering a Ford-averse relative to a Ford product, I would keep them away from dealerships with bad reputations. But that's on the dealer, not Ford. It's pointless to rail at Ford concerning deceptive and oily dealer practices, there's dang little they can do about it. Rich, the dealer does not have a lousy reputation, I buy all my vehicles from him and will continue to do so. The problem is with Ford's engineering dept. and the motor plant. They can not decide how to fix it. Engineering wanted to replace the motor saying the problem was unrepairable, then the engine plant said no, they claim it's a seal and hose in the back of the motor and could be repaired. It's been 24 days and my faher in-law still does not know the problem. The dealer is waiting on the fix from Ford. I admire how everyone on this forum is standing behind Ford, but I have contacted Ford customer service back when this all started and they have done nothing to fix this mess. Customer service has called my in-laws five time but have no answers. If the shoe was on the other foot how many of you readers would be ok with the way Ford is handling this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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