NickF1011 Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 (edited) jam, hopefully the pending fix that mackinaw alluded to will resolve the issue on your father's Escape. If not, suggest that he consider a Honda CR-V or Mazda CX-5 as a replacement vehicle. You think they will be unable to fix his brand new vehicle so he will need to lemon law it and buy a different vehicle? Just a taaaaaaaaaaaad premature, no? Edited July 18, 2012 by NickF1011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aneekr Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 You think they will be unable to fix his brand new vehicle so he will need to lemon law it and buy a different vehicle? Just a taaaaaaaaaaaad premature, no? I'm optimistic that jam's father in law will get his Escape repaired in a satisfactory manner. However, if it isn't and lemon law is invoked, my recommendation would be to avoid another 2013 Escape for the replacement. The CR-V and CX-5 are newly designed vehicles as well, but both their respective manufacturers have a better reputation for quality than Ford. Hence my reply to jam. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 If you are asserting that Ford's quality has gotten worse (which you are), then yes, you should only compare Ford today to Ford of yesterday. Yes, Ford's rate of improvement has fallen behind some key competitors, but it still improving, which is the exact opposite of what you initially asserted. Ford's rankings have gotten worse, I know they have improved overall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 You think they will be unable to fix his brand new vehicle so he will need to lemon law it and buy a different vehicle? Just a taaaaaaaaaaaad premature, no? A faulty supplier hose clamp is hardly a shocking, panic driven development. Now if you are on the Space Shuttle, and Houston says we have a problem, I would listen, but full out panic doesn't help. Thank god Ford engineers are an analytical lot that will look at the problem, and come up with a fix quickly and effectively. No need to jump off the ship yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Ford's rankings have gotten worse, I know they have improved overall. Better to have some quality problems because you are pushing the technology envelope than push a 4 speed auto Corolla for 20 years or so. German cars never win any quality awards and are full of scratch your head problems, but they push that technology envelope and are rewarded with increased sales. Certainly Ford can't afford to let things get out of hand quality wise, but I believe customers will cut them some slack if they keep on pushing technology and wow people with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 I'm optimistic that jam's father in law will get his Escape repaired in a satisfactory manner. However, if it isn't and lemon law is invoked, my recommendation would be to avoid another 2013 Escape for the replacement. The CR-V and CX-5 are newly designed vehicles as well, but both their respective manufacturers have a better reputation for quality than Ford. Hence my reply to jam. Did you really just say Mazda's quality reputation is better than Ford's? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Did you really just say Mazda's quality reputation is better than Ford's? Reminds me of the old AAI days when CR rated the Mazda version higher than its twin, the Probe. And the Probe was better looking at that time and sold better. Look at the moribund Mazda 6 as compared to present Fusion. Not even a good comparison. I hope Mazda can reinvent itself again, but its latest Skyactiv attempts are feeble and Mazda is clearly in trouble. Skyactiv only watered down the ZOOM ZOOM image and will make it harder for them to recover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 I'm optimistic that jam's father in law will get his Escape repaired in a satisfactory manner. However, if it isn't and lemon law is invoked, my recommendation would be to avoid another 2013 Escape for the replacement. The CR-V and CX-5 are newly designed vehicles as well, but both their respective manufacturers have a better reputation for quality than Ford. Hence my reply to jam. Im sorry, but if its a HOSECLAMP forget about Lemon law...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 A faulty supplier hose clamp is hardly a shocking, panic driven development. Now if you are on the Space Shuttle, and Houston says we have a problem, I would listen, but full out panic doesn't help. Thank god Ford engineers are an analytical lot that will look at the problem, and come up with a fix quickly and effectively. No need to jump off the ship yet. the only person panic driven seems to be Borg.....holy smoley.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 a 6-speed GM tranny The Five Hundred had a GM transmission out of the gate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 I want to lemon law this thread. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blazerdude20 Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 I get where Borg is coming from... The new focus had a few issues out of the gate and now the escape has an issue at launch... When compared to the near flawless launch of the fusion and edge I could understand where he is coming from... my main concern is how far the media would run with it. But, these aren't huge issues. Both the issues that "plagued" the Focus were fixed with software updates (in a matter of months) and it sounds like a hose clamp will fix this issue. Outside of these issues i haven't heard of any issues with newer fords... outside of the MFT world is falling crowd. A comparison to VW seems a bit premature honestly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 The Five Hundred had a GM transmission out of the gate? You're right, the GM 6-speed in the Five Hundred arrived with the 2008 (Taurus) update, the Fusion V6 got it first. The Five Hundy had the Aisin unit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 You're right, the GM 6-speed in the Five Hundred arrived with the 2008 (Taurus) update, the Fusion V6 got it first. The Five Hundy had the Aisin unit. I thought it was a "shared" design, with Ford and GM together, and built at a Ford-owned plant. Obviously, this is incorrect. Where did GM build them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT-Keith Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Gotta' love the herd mentality! An isolated issue can be extrapolated into a major recall. Also, I just had my mother's Aisin 6-speed transmission replaced with 40,000mi on the odometer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 I thought it was a "shared" design, with Ford and GM together, and built at a Ford-owned plant. Obviously, this is incorrect. Where did GM build them? Jointly engineered but built separately. Ford built the Ford 6F trannies not GM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmm55 Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 We're talking about an oil leak here! It's a frickin seal or something. 13 days is ridiculous. A leak that is "not repairable" is equally stupid. Borg, I see you are stirring up BS again. Ford/Lincoln quality hit was mostly from MyFord/Lincoln Touch and the Focus/Fiesta DC tranny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Jointly engineered but built separately. Ford built the Ford 6F trannies not GM. I kind of remember it being a "joint" effort, and was wondering why Borg called it a GM transmission. I believe they were just trying to minimize the costs to both somewhat with collabrative effort. No pejorative needed. Auto companies do it all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mettech Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Never buy the first model year of an all new vehicle. You are the guinea pig. Who would buy the vehicles? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stpatrick90 Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 You're right, the GM 6-speed in the Five Hundred arrived with the 2008 (Taurus) update, the Fusion V6 got it first. The Five Hundy had the Aisin unit. Wrong on a few counts. GM and Ford Jointly developed the 6F transmission, but individually developed their own software for them. So it is not accurate on any level to call it the GM 6speed. Generally it is stated that Fords software tuning was better than GMs and my experience with both sets of programming mirrors this. Also the Fusion was not the first car to get the 6F. When the Fusion debuted it used an Aisin unit which I believe the MKZ and Fusion 3.5L still uses. The Edge was the first Ford with the 6F. The Taurus also got the 6F in 2008 when the 500 was redesigned. The Fusion didn't get the 6F till 2010 when it was redone and it was only on the 2.5L and 3.0L and in this iteration had teething problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 I bought the 3rd Fusion off the truck at my local dealer back in 2005. Almost 7 years later I've only had to change the oil, tires, cleaned out the hvac fan and replaced a broken door handle. 54K miles and still on the original brakes. Not a single dealer visit. Yeah, those first year vehicles are horrible. I guess since it doesn't happen to you, it doesn't happen to anybody. Thanks for reminding me why I hardly post here anymore. What an arrogant ass you are. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transitman Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 It didn't happen to me either. I bought the first 2012 Focus that was a factory order at my dealership, built 4/29/11. Other than the MFT update and reprogramming the driver's one touch window switch, mine has been flawless. My DCT has not had the reprogramming because it works fine. That's not to say it hasn't happened to others, just check out the Focus Fanatics Forum, nearly every post is about something wrong with the car. It's depressing to read the posts there and the problems include Job2 builds. Is it because it's a first year new design, or are all new cars susceptible to having problems and the fact is some do and some don't, but we only read about the one's that do. If all cars are destined to break down, then those with cars that don't are the lucky ones, but they better not say anything. Easy solution, always by used cars, let the first owner deal with the problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 I guess since it doesn't happen to you, it doesn't happen to anybody. Thanks for reminding me why I hardly post here anymore. What an arrogant ass you are. How is posting facts that contradict your opinion being an arrogant ass? Especially when those facts are backed up by every quality study published. But if I'm responsible for you not posting here anymore I will take this opportunity to say "you're welcome" to everyone else. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twmalonehunter Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 You haven't been missed by me Pioneer. Your constant negativity towards Ford had gotten pretty tiresome. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackHorse Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 (edited) Better to have some quality problems because you are pushing the technology envelope than push a 4 speed auto Corolla for 20 years or so. Which reminds me, I'm really enjoying my Corolla. It's a great car, couldn't be happier and the old school 4 speed auto setup is still getting better mpg than I did in the dual clutch Focus. Just wanted to throw that out there. And now back to the main event. lol However I would like to say in akirby's defense that the Fusion has been an exceptionally reliable car from the very first year model and that is attributable to the fact that Ford took the time and effort to make sure the car was thoroughly vetted and all the bugs worked out before they released it. So it can be done. This notion that first year model cars should be avoided because of the higher probability of having issues doesn't work for me. These corporations are perfectly capable of releasing a solid product from year one (the Fusion is proof of that). But instead they rush product to market and the costumers pay the price. Edited July 19, 2012 by BlackHorse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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