silvrsvt Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 http://jalopnik.com/5922305/how-toyotas-bmw-deal-fulfills-akio-toyodas-deepest-desire Toyota and BMW are teaming up on what they're calling an environmentally friendly sports car. They aren't saying very much about it, in fact they buried the news in their announcement of an expanded technology partnership with BMW. In fact, not a single reporter in Japan asked a question about the sports car (Boo!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT90SC Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 BMW=driving machine Toyota=I hate driving machine How woud this marriage work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papilgee4evaeva Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 BMW=driving machine Toyota=I hate driving machine How woud this marriage work? They'll sell every one they build, regardless of merit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 They'll sell every one they build, regardless of merit. Not so sure about that. Toyota hasn't exactly been the most successful at marketing sporty vehicles. There's a laundry list of eventual failures: Supra? Celica? MR-2? MR-Spyder? tC? SC? Jury is still out on the FR-S and LFA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 As JFK said about Washington: "It's a city of Southern efficiency and Northern charm." I envision a car that drives like a Toyota and costs as much as a BMW to fix. Sort of like the Sterling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Not so sure about that. Toyota hasn't exactly been the most successful at marketing sporty vehicles. There's a laundry list of eventual failures: Supra? Celica? MR-2? MR-Spyder? tC? SC? Jury is still out on the FR-S and LFA. BMW's Z4 has not been a good seller last few years. But then again selling sports cars in economy of last few years has not been easy. But with new products sports cars and sporty cars have been making a little bit of a comeback. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 BMW's Z4 has not been a good seller last few years. But then again selling sports cars in economy of last few years has not been easy. But with new products sports cars and sporty cars have been making a little bit of a comeback. The styling of the Z4 hasn't exactly helped its cause either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aneekr Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Jury is still out on the FR-S and LFA. In the case of those two cars, papilgee4evaeva's statement about selling every one they build should hold true in the short term. Sales of the latter cover the entire allotments for most regions; the former ranked (with its Subaru sibling) at the top of Edmunds' list of "fastest selling vehicles in May 2012": Long term, I agree with you that it remains to be seen whether BMW's or Toyota's sales and marketing strategies for sports cars (jointly developed or not) are tenable. The decent number of sports or sporty cars in Edmunds' list above leads me to be cautiously optimistic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 In the case of those two cars, papilgee4evaeva's statement about selling every one they build should hold true in the short term. Sales of the latter cover the entire allotments for most regions; the former ranked (with its Subaru sibling) at the top of Edmunds' list of "fastest selling vehicles in May 2012": A couple months doesn't really mean much. I want to see them surive into a second or third generation. The Supra was the only one that really managed that well before becoming too overpriced in its final generation -- the same fate that met Nissan's 300ZX and Mitsubishi's 3000GT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted July 3, 2012 Author Share Posted July 3, 2012 In the case of those two cars, papilgee4evaeva's statement about selling every one they build should hold true in the short term. Sales of the latter cover the entire allotments for most regions; the former ranked (with its Subaru sibling) at the top of Edmunds' list of "fastest selling vehicles in May 2012": I think that cart is a bit disingenuous...wait till the supply builds up to see how fast they sell...its the same situation with the 2013 Escape...4 days on the lot (though I've seen a few in local lots for about a week or two now) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 its the same situation with the 2013 Escape...4 days on the lot (though I've seen a few in local lots for about a week or two now) That's an average. For the ones that have been there a couple weeks there have likely been others that were bought right off the truck. All depends on how they are optioned out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 (edited) As JFK said about Washington: "It's a city of Southern efficiency and Northern charm." I envision a car that drives like a Toyota and costs as much as a BMW to fix. Sort of like the Sterling. LOL, the worst of both worlds.. Edited July 6, 2012 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bimmer-Bob Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 A couple months doesn't really mean much. I want to see them surive into a second or third generation. The Supra was the only one that really managed that well before becoming too overpriced in its final generation -- the same fate that met Nissan's 300ZX and Mitsubishi's 3000GT. That seems like an odd way of looking at things. Why does it have to survive for 2 or 3 generations to be considered successful? It's successful if it makes money, period. It can be a critical success even if it doesn't make money, and even if it only gets built for a single model year. Those that think that Toyota has no heritage of building good sports cars have short memories. Not to mention the brand new FR-S, which is impressing lots of reviewers. SMH at this thread... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blazerdude20 Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 That seems like an odd way of looking at things. Why does it have to survive for 2 or 3 generations to be considered successful? It's successful if it makes money, period. It can be a critical success even if it doesn't make money, and even if it only gets built for a single model year. Those that think that Toyota has no heritage of building good sports cars have short memories. Not to mention the brand new FR-S, which is impressing lots of reviewers. SMH at this thread... Part of the reason people scoff at the "heritage" of toyota sports cars is because they flail in the wind with their sports cars. They have a succesful car and then turn it into something far off from the original... Essentially killing the product/brand after a couple of years. Thats where the 2 or 3 generations notion comes from. Its as if Toyota hired GM to run their sporty car development. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bimmer-Bob Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 Well, I'll admit that Toyota's sporting efforts have often been thwarted by bad marketing and/or unfavorable market conditions, but I would never say that they couldn't build 'em. And with BMW as a partner, I'm interested to see the results. Of course, there's a lot that has to happen for this thing to become a reality - but if it did, I'm sure it would at least be an interesting exercise in engineering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Those that think that Toyota has no heritage of building good sports cars have short memories. Actually, Nick mentioned the Supra/Celica, and aside from that you've got what? The incredibly low volume 2000 GT? The MR2? I mean you've got, on the one hand a fantastic, beautiful car, of which maybe a hundred remain, and on the other hand you've got a vehicle that unfortunately applied both Toyota reliability and Toyota excitement to the basic layout of a Ferrari. Really, the best thing you can say about the MR2 is that it caught fire a lot less often than the Fiero. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Also, in case you think that we're unaware of Toyota's sporty car legacy, well, most of us are quite familiar with the first generation Celica: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retro-man Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 They should be able to bring a creditable product to market all in-house. But, I'll be the first to admit that what they've done so far is interesting only to a small number of freaks like me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bimmer-Bob Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 (edited) Nevermind. Edited July 9, 2012 by Bimmer-Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 That seems like an odd way of looking at things. Why does it have to survive for 2 or 3 generations to be considered successful? It's successful if it makes money, period. It can be a critical success even if it doesn't make money, and even if it only gets built for a single model year. Those that think that Toyota has no heritage of building good sports cars have short memories. Not to mention the brand new FR-S, which is impressing lots of reviewers. SMH at this thread... I doubt the gen 4 Supra made a dime for Toyota. If the FR-S settles into a couple thousand sales a month, I doubt it will either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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