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Guest Message by DevFuse

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Ford March 2012 Sales


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188 replies to this topic

#41 OFFLINE   NickF1011

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 01:25 PM

no

http://online.wsj.co...-autosales.html

Posted Image


Okay. So cars have the lead for the past two months. Still doesn't change the market posotion of B-cars. They still sell less than C/D and C cars, as well as small, midsize, and large SUV's, and fullsize pickups. Probably minivans too.

Edited by NickF1011, 03 April 2012 - 01:26 PM.

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#42 OFFLINE   BORG

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 01:30 PM

And I'm sure we all know this, B-segment cars are light on profit which means Ford's overall volume is more profitable because they are selling C+ segment cars and utilities.

#43 OFFLINE   Kev-Mo

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 01:31 PM

Oh no! Doom and gloom!

:runaway: :runaway:

:sos: :sos:

:drop: :drop:

Yes, the current Fusion and Escape are big sellers....with relatively big discounts. The new versions will almost undoubtedly be more profitable, even if they don't sell in quite as high bargain-level volumes. Sales crowns don't mean squat if you aren't making money getting there.


Ok Nick, be sarcastic all you want - I did not predict doom and gloom. Simply put - if your competition is up 20-30% and you are up 5% then they attracted more new buyers than you did...no matter how you spin it. And don't say Toyota coming back is not a matter of concern. For every one of those lame Camry's or Corolla's they sell, that is one Fusion or Focus not sold.
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#44 OFFLINE   NickF1011

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 01:39 PM

Ok Nick, be sarcastic all you want - I did not predict doom and gloom. Simply put - if your competition is up 20-30% and you are up 5% then they attracted more new buyers than you did...no matter how you spin it. And don't say Toyota coming back is not a matter of concern. For every one of those lame Camry's or Corolla's they sell, that is one Fusion or Focus not sold.


There's plenty of completely VALID spin to be put on it though. What did ATP's look like? What was incentive spending like? What were the fleet/retail mixes of competitors? All of those are very real and very valid factors to be considered when analyzing sales. To simply look at sales columns does not paint a complete picture.

Besides, did anyone think for a moment that Toyota wasn't going to come back? That would be rather naive.
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#45 OFFLINE   akirby

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 01:39 PM

Simply put - if your competition is up 20-30% and you are up 5% then they attracted more new buyers than you did...no matter how you spin it.


Actually that's patently false, no spin required. It depends entirely on the actual numbers, not percentages. If I sold 5 vehicles last year and 10 this year I've increased 100%. If you sold 100K last year and 101K this year you only increased 1%. But your 1% is 1,000 vehicles compared to 5 at 100%.

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#46 OFFLINE   RichardJensen

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 01:40 PM

Being the 3rd highest selling car segment is something.

Not when that segment is like a quarter of the size of the 2nd highest car segment.

And not when the vehicles that are included in that segment are based on the Biker16 standard of cherry-picked entries.

photo-thumb-15254.jpg


#47 OFFLINE   bzcat

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 01:40 PM

it is larger than the D segment right now.

in order of volume rough guess of volume.
C/D ~3 million
C ~ 2.3 million
B .6 millon
D .5 million
E < .2 million

Being the 3rd highest selling car segment is something.

some B-car numbers form last month
nissan
juke 4165
versa 15,587

GM
Sonic 8251

hyndai
N/A

toyota
yaris 3547
IQ 1285
XD 1080
XB 2054

honda
N/A


xB is not a B-segment car anymore than Corolla is one.

The new flavor of the moment in the B-segment is actually Prius C.

xD/Yaris/Prius C combined (they are the same car just different body/engine) outsold everyone in the B-segment.

#48 OFFLINE   Extreme4x4

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 01:42 PM

But lets look at the numbers, and percentages a bit........................ shall we??

Look at CV sales. Look at Ranger sales. What volume is lost there?? Add that back in, and Fords percentages would look much better. What Ford had on the lots, sold great.

However, I guess we have to find the "doom and gloom" in what is a damn good month. Do not expect Ford sales to be up large percentages this year, because of the vehicles going away.

GM, on the other hand, should be worried. Ford was less than 8000 sales less than GM as a whole. F-series really pulled away from the GM twins in March. If anyone needs to be worried, it is GM.
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#49 OFFLINE   akirby

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 01:44 PM

Ford was less than 8000 sales less than GM as a whole.


And I'll point out again that Ford has half the employees that GM has. You guys do the math......

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#50 OFFLINE   NickF1011

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 01:45 PM

GM, on the other hand, should be worried. Ford was less than 8000 sales less than GM as a whole. F-series really pulled away from the GM twins in March. If anyone needs to be worried, it is GM.


That's a pretty good point. Ford is still increasing its sales with a much leaner organization than GM's.
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#51 OFFLINE   RichardJensen

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 01:47 PM

Posted Image

That's not the entire market. That's the *retail* market.

photo-thumb-15254.jpg


#52 OFFLINE   RichardJensen

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 01:48 PM

Simply put

Simply put: One month is not a year.

Also your earlier post talked about *new* buyers. Well, not all of this increase is coming from buyers that are *new* to the car market.

Edited by RichardJensen, 03 April 2012 - 01:49 PM.

photo-thumb-15254.jpg


#53 OFFLINE   NickF1011

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 01:50 PM

That's not the entire market. That's the *retail* market.


Good eye. I totally missed that. That would probably be excluding half the fullsize trucks sold then.
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#54 OFFLINE   Deanh

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 01:52 PM

Ok Nick, be sarcastic all you want - I did not predict doom and gloom. Simply put - if your competition is up 20-30% and you are up 5% then they attracted more new buyers than you did...no matter how you spin it. And don't say Toyota coming back is not a matter of concern. For every one of those lame Camry's or Corolla's they sell, that is one Fusion or Focus not sold.

wrong, Toyota and Honda were significantly hurt with supply issues courtesy of the Tsunami, their sales numbers dropped substantially, so the increases in %; change more dramatically......
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#55 OFFLINE   RichardJensen

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 01:54 PM

Yeah, you're going to see some stratospheric increases for the Japanese mfrs. next few months.

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#56 OFFLINE   FordBuyer

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 02:00 PM

And I'll point out again that Ford has half the employees that GM has. You guys do the math......


OK, I'll do the math. You are welcome:


GM
Ford

Market Cap
40.79B
47.53B

Employees
207,000
164,000

Revenue
150.28B
136.26B

Gross Margin
12.71%
16.82%

Operating Cash Flow
8.17B
9.78B

Operating Margin
3.98%
5.10%

Cash
31.6B
23.0B

Debt
5.30B
13.0B
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#57 OFFLINE   RichardJensen

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 02:02 PM

Operating margin & operating cash flow tell you all you need to know.

photo-thumb-15254.jpg


#58 OFFLINE   NickF1011

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 02:04 PM

Operating margin & operating cash flow tell you all you need to know.


I'd like to see a chart tracking all of those numbers since Ford's first re-org announcement. Of particular interest would be seeing Ford's cashflow, cash on hand and debt.
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#59 OFFLINE   630land

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 02:09 PM

"of those lame Camry's or Corolla's they sell, that is one Fusion or Focus not sold."

Should Big Gov't ban all import makes then?

"Ford will lose sales when they phase out old Fusion and Escape"!

Then Ford should never update their cars, God forbid!

#60 OFFLINE   akirby

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 02:09 PM

I was referring to U.S. sales and U.S. employees only.

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