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Guest Message by DevFuse

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Ford January 2012 Sales Figures


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#41 OFFLINE   chevys

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 10:55 PM

Escape and Explorer continue to amaze me. F series trucks are the best of the best and sale consistantly show it.

The Mustang is getting murdered with 3K on the hoods. I was flat out wrong about the Camaro. I give Gm credit and only two things come to my mind about why. Its a new unique styling that you love or hate and those that are Camaro loyalists. The MT82 has not helped the Mustang either. Ford has updated this thing several times and its getting better but damn thats what you get for letting the Chinese build it. Its a real sore spot for many Mustangers. Its a sore spot for me after reading the horror stories. They can do better than this and their response to the problems didnt help them either. They basically blamed the owners for not knowing how to drive a stick.

You can pull stuff like that in a Fiesta or Focus but you cant fool the Mustang faithful. I think its a great car and most of the transmissions dont have issues but the quality control out of China is suspect at best.

And my last thought. The pent up demand (I guess) for the last Rangers dang near out sold the Lincoln division. :yahoo: Low margins maybe but lets kill it off with no plan for the future. But lets pour the coal to Lincoln to make it a fancy Ford.







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#42 OFFLINE   BORG

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 11:55 PM

Escape and Explorer continue to amaze me. F series trucks are the best of the best and sale consistantly show it.

The Mustang is getting murdered with 3K on the hoods. I was flat out wrong about the Camaro. I give Gm credit and only two things come to my mind about why. Its a new unique styling that you love or hate and those that are Camaro loyalists. The MT82 has not helped the Mustang either. Ford has updated this thing several times and its getting better but damn thats what you get for letting the Chinese build it. Its a real sore spot for many Mustangers. Its a sore spot for me after reading the horror stories. They can do better than this and their response to the problems didnt help them either. They basically blamed the owners for not knowing how to drive a stick.

You can pull stuff like that in a Fiesta or Focus but you cant fool the Mustang faithful. I think its a great car and most of the transmissions dont have issues but the quality control out of China is suspect at best.

And my last thought. The pent up demand (I guess) for the last Rangers dang near out sold the Lincoln division. :yahoo: Low margins maybe but lets kill it off with no plan for the future. But lets pour the coal to Lincoln to make it a fancy Ford.


The Mustang doesn't have any real systemic quality issues or perception problems, it's just an aging product and there are newer choices out there now. It's a fickle segment.

As for the Ranger vs Lincoln, they are investing in products in a growing segment that attract higher margin retail customers. This is the Ford we want, not a white-goods supplier.

Edited by BORG, 01 February 2012 - 11:56 PM.


#43 OFFLINE   chevys

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 12:20 AM

The Mustang doesn't have any real systemic quality issues or perception problems, it's just an aging product and there are newer choices out there now. It's a fickle segment.

As for the Ranger vs Lincoln, they are investing in products in a growing segment that attract higher margin retail customers. This is the Ford we want, not a white-goods supplier.


I disagree. The MT82 is still not a proven product. Problems still persist. Ford has done everything in their power to sweep it under the rug but the problems still persist. I will say the 12
s are better than the 11's but it has issues and everybody that has bought or considered a Mustang knows about them. Ford has blown how they have handled the mess imo. I would not touch one with a ten foot pole. These will go down in history like the 99 cobra fiasco.

That said you are right about Lincoln. I was just taking a poke at those who dont care about the Ranger. Linclon has a long long way to go though. I have never cared about them one way or the other because its just a slicked up Ford.

#44 OFFLINE   RichardJensen

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 12:32 AM

if, as stated they are "carrying their own paper", its actually pretty simple....the parameters will be time in residence and job ( to aleviate any fears of SCNL...Subscriber cannot be located, ie skip hazard ) debt to income ratio, and the BIG one should the car have to be repo'ed.....Downpayment.....( if it comes back and the car is in an equitable position for resale ) if those are met its a money making machine...ie Finance reserve, warranties amnd Bank Fees....theres an old addage...beggars cant be choosers....this is an elaborate twist on those little sled lots carrying 3-$5000 cars that advertise they can finanance anyone

If you'll note the post in the linked thread, the buyer:

- was financed 100%
- had no income history to speak of
- was financed by whatever GM's calling their finance arm

That's scary.

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#45 OFFLINE   silvrsvt

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 08:59 AM

I disagree. The MT82 is still not a proven product. Problems still persist. Ford has done everything in their power to sweep it under the rug but the problems still persist. I will say the 12
s are better than the 11's but it has issues and everybody that has bought or considered a Mustang knows about them. Ford has blown how they have handled the mess imo. I would not touch one with a ten foot pole. These will go down in history like the 99 cobra fiasco. .


Sounds like your painting with a mighty broad brush there....

Keep this in mind, the Mustang has always had some sort of issue (real or imagined) with its transmission that I can remember:

T5 Tranny from the Fox and early SN95 cars where notorious for bent shift forks and made short throw shifters popular

the T45 had issues in the 4.6L SN95's

The TR3650 as far as I know hasn't had any major issues with it and I've never had a problem with it in my Mustang with nearly 108K miles on it.

The other thing is that in this day and age people complaining about transmission problems with the Mustang have a certain echo effect...you can have the same person complain over and over about the same problem making the problem look alot worse then it is.... cuing blackhorse...erm...

Not to mention the NTSB said there isn't a problem and Ford explained what the issues where, I think its to deal with lack of driving skills of the people buying them (not used to a stick) or the lock out features it has to improve MPGs




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Ford Products owned though the years:
1986 Escort GT Race Red
1998 Mustang GT Dark Green Satin
2002 SVT Focus Satin Silver
2006 Mustang GT Tungsten Grey

2010 Escape XLT AWD Sport Blue
2013 Taurus SHO Ruby Red

2017 Escape SE AWD Platinum White

Future Fords:
2021 Bronco

20xx Mustang GT350 or the like

 

199923.png
 
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#46 OFFLINE   NickF1011

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 09:57 AM

Problems still persist.


Umm. No they don't.
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#47 OFFLINE   Fgts

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 10:58 AM

Escape and Explorer continue to amaze me. F series trucks are the best of the best and sale consistantly show it.

The Mustang is getting murdered with 3K on the hoods. I was flat out wrong about the Camaro. I give Gm credit and only two things come to my mind about why. Its a new unique styling that you love or hate and those that are Camaro loyalists. The MT82 has not helped the Mustang either. Ford has updated this thing several times and its getting better but damn thats what you get for letting the Chinese build it. Its a real sore spot for many Mustangers. Its a sore spot for me after reading the horror stories. They can do better than this and their response to the problems didnt help them either. They basically blamed the owners for not knowing how to drive a stick.

You can pull stuff like that in a Fiesta or Focus but you cant fool the Mustang faithful. I think its a great car and most of the transmissions dont have issues but the quality control out of China is suspect at best.

And my last thought. The pent up demand (I guess) for the last Rangers dang near out sold the Lincoln division. :yahoo: Low margins maybe but lets kill it off with no plan for the future. But lets pour the coal to Lincoln to make it a fancy Ford.


The Challanger is catching up to the Stang/maro in sales also (its a nice roomy coupe). From the auto show I gauge from Ford is the 2 weak links is the Mustang and the big Suvs. The Mustang is starting to show its age dispite the advance powerplants and performance, Ford will solve this with the new redesign. The big Suvs Ford needs an ass kicking for letting these trucks have old engines. The Navigator is still nice and many people still looked at the beast besides Lincoln not having the truck on the main display, same goes for the Expedition. Only the GMTs were nicer (but not much).

#48 OFFLINE   BlackHorse

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 03:06 AM

Escape and Explorer continue to amaze me. F series trucks are the best of the best and sale consistantly show it.

The Mustang is getting murdered with 3K on the hoods. I was flat out wrong about the Camaro. I give Gm credit and only two things come to my mind about why. Its a new unique styling that you love or hate and those that are Camaro loyalists. The MT82 has not helped the Mustang either. Ford has updated this thing several times and its getting better but damn thats what you get for letting the Chinese build it. Its a real sore spot for many Mustangers. Its a sore spot for me after reading the horror stories. They can do better than this and their response to the problems didnt help them either. They basically blamed the owners for not knowing how to drive a stick.

You can pull stuff like that in a Fiesta or Focus but you cant fool the Mustang faithful. I think its a great car and most of the transmissions dont have issues but the quality control out of China is suspect at best.

And my last thought. The pent up demand (I guess) for the last Rangers dang near out sold the Lincoln division. :yahoo: Low margins maybe but lets kill it off with no plan for the future. But lets pour the coal to Lincoln to make it a fancy Ford.


Neither the Mustang or the Camaro is what I would call a smash hit in the sales category by any means. The Camaro only managed 5700 units in January itself which is by no means a stellar success for a car that use to sell in the 14 to 15 thousand units per month. This is what happens when you price cars too high. Toyota is about to make the same mistake with the soon to be released FR-S sports car. These car makers seem to have forgotten how to sell entry level sports coupes in the US. The target demographic here is younger buyers or single people with no children who want a flashy ride. In either case most of them do not have a great deal of disposable income so charging 25 to 27K for a V6 Mustang or Camaro is not going to meet with much success. Ford, Chevy, Toyota, Honda and even Chrysler need to completely rethink the way they make and market cars in the sports coupe segment. Toyota should have learned their lesson with the last generation Celica back in the late 90's. The GT-S Celica had price tags as high as a Mustang GT at that time. It was not a sales success and the car was dropped from the lineup. No matter what the excuse Toyota might give, the problem was in fact the price tag. Celica of the 80's was a car that was affordable and fun to drive. It didn't outrun everything on the road and that was ok with the majority of buyers. They just wanted a fun affordable car. But then Toyota had to get all serious about it. Ford has done the same thing with the Mustang and as the performance level went up and the feature content went up, the price tag went up. So the end result is a miserly 3736 units in January. The Mustang (and the Camaro) no longer hold to the original idea of the cars respectively. Low cost fun for younger buyers who would be attracted to such a car. Instead they are fairly expensive cars that don't sell to well because the people that can afford them have wives, husbands, kids, homes etc etc and a Mustang / Camaro is just not a good choice for them. Now for those of you that wonder if I am advocating for a return to the days when the Mustang and Camaro were basically entry level cars like they were in the 1980s or early 90's. Yes I am. That is what made those cars successful. They weren't anything spectacular in the feature content department and they weren't trying to outrun everything on the road. They were just good, fun and affordable cars and young buyers bought them in droves. That is what these cars were intended to be. Quit trying to make the Corvette and Porsche killers. They aren't. If that is what someone wants to make it into, there's an aftermarket for that from which the car companies can make a lot of money.

Edited by BlackHorse, 03 February 2012 - 03:28 AM.

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#49 OFFLINE   MKII

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 04:10 AM

Ford has done the same thing with the Mustang and as the performance level went up and the feature content went up, the price tag went up.


Really? I have never heard of such a thing before.....more performance, higher quality interior materials & added feature content and they have the nerve to increase prices. Son-of-a-gun.

I suggest those poor young wanna fast cheap stripped out muscle car, is look for a used one and strip it down to look like those beauties from years gone past and go burn some rubber. Problem solved.

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#50 OFFLINE   BlackHorse

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 05:00 AM

Really? I have never heard of such a thing before.....more performance, higher quality interior materials & added feature content and they have the nerve to increase prices. Son-of-a-gun.

I suggest those poor young wanna fast cheap stripped out muscle car, is look for a used one and strip it down to look like those beauties from years gone past and go burn some rubber. Problem solved.


I didn't say the price increase was unjustified for the car. I'm just saying the car is priced right out of the market.

As for what the young buyers will go out and buy. It won't be the used Mustang. They go out and get Civics.

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#51 OFFLINE   MKII

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 07:03 AM

I didn't say the price increase was unjustified for the car. I'm just saying the car is priced right out of the market.

As for what the young buyers will go out and buy. It won't be the used Mustang. They go out and get Civics.


So you think a 305hp Mustang with a list price of $22,000 is priced out of the market? I know cars are cheap in America but I am surprised that people would think that this beast of car is priced out its market.

When I compared the base Mustang to its competition, the Stanger is $2,000 to $3,000 lower in price, and up to $4,000 if one considers the Genesis Coupe in the group.

Not being in America, maybe one with knowledge can advise what the current average price is expected for this segment of the market.

Reading the listed MSRP's from the cars in this group, it appears Mustang pricing is under priced.

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#52 OFFLINE   jpd80

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 07:05 AM

So you think a 305hp Mustang with a list price of $22,000 is priced out of the market? I know cars are cheap in America but I am surprised that people would think that this beast of car is priced out its market.

When I compared the base Mustang to its competition, the Stanger is $2,000 to $3,000 lower in price, and up to $4,000 if one considers the Genesis Coupe in the group.

Not being in America, maybe one with knowledge can advise what the current average price is expected for this segment of the market.

Reading the listed MSRP's from the cars in this group, it appears Mustang pricing is under priced.

Relative pricing, a base V8 non GT Mustang with 380 hp F150 5.0 could be fitted and sold for around $25,000...

#53 OFFLINE   BlackHorse

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 07:31 AM

So you think a 305hp Mustang with a list price of $22,000 is priced out of the market? I know cars are cheap in America but I am surprised that people would think that this beast of car is priced out its market.

When I compared the base Mustang to its competition, the Stanger is $2,000 to $3,000 lower in price, and up to $4,000 if one considers the Genesis Coupe in the group.

Not being in America, maybe one with knowledge can advise what the current average price is expected for this segment of the market.

Reading the listed MSRP's from the cars in this group, it appears Mustang pricing is under priced.


If you were in America and able to take a trip down to just about any local Ford dealer what you'll find is that the $22,000 Mustang is just about non-existent. You might find "one" and that would be on the lot of a dealer with a lot of Mustang inventory. The average price that you're going to find for the V6 is somewhere around 25 to 27K.

The local dealer here for instance has 38 Mustangs in stock, 12 of which are GT's and not one of the GT's has a price tag below 35 thousand so this notion of go get yourself a 25K GT is a lot of internet bluster for the most part. On the V6 side, they have 2 that are in the 23K range and from there the price tags jump to 24.5 / 25K and up to 29K

Edited by BlackHorse, 03 February 2012 - 07:37 AM.

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#54 OFFLINE   silvrsvt

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 08:37 AM

If you were in America and able to take a trip down to just about any local Ford dealer what you'll find is that the $22,000 Mustang is just about non-existent. You might find "one" and that would be on the lot of a dealer with a lot of Mustang inventory. The average price that you're going to find for the V6 is somewhere around 25 to 27K.

The local dealer here for instance has 38 Mustangs in stock, 12 of which are GT's and not one of the GT's has a price tag below 35 thousand so this notion of go get yourself a 25K GT is a lot of internet bluster for the most part. On the V6 side, they have 2 that are in the 23K range and from there the price tags jump to 24.5 / 25K and up to 29K


Keep this in mind...the base price of the Mustang went up considerably in 2009....you know why? Because all the features that where optional on my 2006 Mustang GT became standard and other options where added to the car, driving up the price more...I'm sure this was done for two reasons: this was the way that people where ordering them and Ford was implementing its "every platform needs to pay for itself" mantra at the time.

I never buy a car off the lot unless its optioned out the way I want it....if I'm going to spend big money on something, I sure as hell want it the way I want it optioned out and waiting 3 months or so isn't a big deal in the grand scheme of things. If I was going to get another Mustang GT, it would cost me about $35K, which is about 5K more then what I paid for my GT 6 years ago...but with alot more options on it that I couldn't even get on my car.

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Ford Products owned though the years:
1986 Escort GT Race Red
1998 Mustang GT Dark Green Satin
2002 SVT Focus Satin Silver
2006 Mustang GT Tungsten Grey

2010 Escape XLT AWD Sport Blue
2013 Taurus SHO Ruby Red

2017 Escape SE AWD Platinum White

Future Fords:
2021 Bronco

20xx Mustang GT350 or the like

 

199923.png
 
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#55 OFFLINE   Extreme4x4

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 08:54 AM

In 1991, my Mustang GT was $16,900. It had cloth seats, power windows and locks, and a 5-speed trans. It had the upgraded stereo, which was nothing close to the base stereo in the V6 car, and came with 16" aluminum wheels and Goodyear tires.

It made 225hp, and had rear drum brakes.

With inflation, todays V6 is the spiritual successor to my GT. It makes 305hp, gets 31mpg, and has a 6-speed. There are no drum brakes anywhere to be found, and it has a stereo that my '91 could only dream about in the aftermarket. It is faster, handles much better, and gets amazing mileage. It will protect you in a crash of incredible proportions. Basically, it is infinitally better than my '91 could have dreamt to be, for very similar money (inflation taken into account).

What hasn't kept up with inflation is wages. This is what has lowered younger peoples buying power. The car actually hasn't changed much at all, in relation to price.
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#56 OFFLINE   RichardJensen

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 12:01 PM

How many young people can afford the insurance on a Mustang anyway?

And I don't care that these vehicles used to sell 14k per month---Ford used to have over 75% of the U.S. market with one vehicle. Times change. Either you change or you die.

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#57 OFFLINE   silvrsvt

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 12:16 PM

How many young people can afford the insurance on a Mustang anyway?


If you want it bad enough you can ;)

Anyways...my experience is that insurance on anything before the ages of 25 or 30 is downright stupid....my Mustang was cheaper to insure then my Focus!




"Hell, there are no rules here-- we're trying to accomplish something."
Thomas A. Edison


Ford Products owned though the years:
1986 Escort GT Race Red
1998 Mustang GT Dark Green Satin
2002 SVT Focus Satin Silver
2006 Mustang GT Tungsten Grey

2010 Escape XLT AWD Sport Blue
2013 Taurus SHO Ruby Red

2017 Escape SE AWD Platinum White

Future Fords:
2021 Bronco

20xx Mustang GT350 or the like

 

199923.png
 
photo-thumb-15254.jpg


#58 OFFLINE   BlackHorse

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 04:33 PM

How many young people can afford the insurance on a Mustang anyway?

And I don't care that these vehicles used to sell 14k per month---Ford used to have over 75% of the U.S. market with one vehicle. Times change. Either you change or you die.



3736 units sold in January.



Not going to stay alive for long like that.


I paid the insurance on a brand new Camaro when I was 22. But guess what, the car only cost 17K to begin with so it was affordable. Checkmate.

Edited by BlackHorse, 03 February 2012 - 04:37 PM.

"You can run me...and you can starve me...and you can beat me and you can kill me. Just don't bore me."


#59 OFFLINE   630land

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 04:38 PM

Mustang is not just a 'young car anymore', it's meant for all ages. Kids today want a new smart phone and notebook computer every 6 months, and don't want to drive. 'Mom does that'.
They prefer to sit looking at screens 'chatting' and not meet "friends" in person.* So no desire for a car, until they "have to go to work" and then it's what 'has a good reputation' like a Civic.

Have to aim Mustangs for people with jobs, money, and a life.

* I am being satirical, but it's true teens are just not into cars as the Boomer muscle car era or even the 90's Civic Si era.

Edited by 630land, 03 February 2012 - 04:39 PM.


#60 OFFLINE   BlackHorse

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 04:41 PM

Mustang is not just a 'young car anymore', it's meant for all ages. Kids today want a new smart phone and notebook computer every 6 months, and don't want to drive. 'Mom does that'.
They prefer to sit looking at screens 'chatting' and not meet "friends" in person.* So no desire for a car, until they "have to go to work" and then it's what 'has a good reputation' like a Civic.

Have to aim Mustangs for people with jobs, money, and a life.

* I am being satirical, but it's true teens are just not into cars as the Boomer muscle car era or even the 90's Civic Si era.


Problem is, the people you describe don't buy Mustangs because it doesn't work for their lifestyle.

Hence 3736 units sold. lol

"You can run me...and you can starve me...and you can beat me and you can kill me. Just don't bore me."









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