News on Lincoln

[TomServo92]

Good point.

Lincoln is not gunning for Mercedes or BMW just trying to pick off a few Cadillac lounge lizards here and there.

 

Personally I'd get a Limited Taurus if I wanted a luxury Ford.

 

How do you know who they are gunning for? Are you privy to the marketing strategies? Or are these just more of your anally extracted thoughts?

[F250]

How do you know who they are gunning for? Are you privy to the marketing strategies? Or are these just more of your anally extracted thoughts?

 

Reduced to personal attacks? Ok asshole look at the facts.

Right now Lincoln is at the bottom of the market and Ford is talking about a $1 billion investment which aint going to build an S-Class killer. Using existing Ford FWD platforms they can build very good alternatives to Cadillac and some Lexus vehicles and that's ok. In the near future hopefully Lincoln sales will recover with increased margins. But right now Ford is giving no indication they are willing or able to throw money at Lincoln like they did at say Jaguar. You (usually) get what you pay for. Lincoln is all talk and future product, hopefully they can repair their damaged reputation quickly. Mercedes and BMW never had to repair a bad image and in the upper luxury / status market thats critical.

Ford is wisely limiting their investment in Lincoln's planned recovery.

[Marginal Economist]

I don't recall ever having this kind of focus on the brand.

Another 20+ Lincoln employees will be in the field working with dealers over the next 60 days. There is quite the commitment on the product and operations side - something I have not seen in the past. I am more optimistic now than I was 12 months ago.

[TomServo92]

Reduced to personal attacks? Ok asshole look at the facts.

Right now Lincoln is at the bottom of the market and Ford is talking about a $1 billion investment which aint going to build an S-Class killer. Using existing Ford FWD platforms they can build very good alternatives to Cadillac and some Lexus vehicles and that's ok. In the near future hopefully Lincoln sales will recover with increased margins. But right now Ford is giving no indication they are willing or able to throw money at Lincoln like they did at say Jaguar. You (usually) get what you pay for. Lincoln is all talk and future product, hopefully they can repair their damaged reputation quickly. Mercedes and BMW never had to repair a bad image and in the upper luxury / status market thats critical.

Ford is wisely limiting their investment in Lincoln's planned recovery.

 

Those aren't facts. They're nothing but your assumptions based on very limited knowledge (e.g. anally extracted). You can spin it however you want, but that is a FACT.

[Edstock]

But right now Ford is giving no indication they are willing or able to throw money at Lincoln like they did at say Jaguar.

 

That's corporate security for ya. Were I part of Ford's top management, I'd sleep lots better knowing that you, and even more important, the competition, remain in ignorance.

[2b2]

Another 20+ Lincoln employees will be in the field working with dealers over the next 60 days. There is quite the commitment on the product and operations side - something I have not seen in the past. I am more optimistic now than I was 12 months ago.

doing WHAT?

(serious question, I really want to know)

[RichardJensen]

Clearly Lincoln had it at one time...

 

Ah, more 'things were better in the past' pointlessisms.

 

How is 1991 even remotely relevant? Ford used to have 75% of the US market. They don't any more. Pointless, maudlin maundering about the past is annoying here and counterproductive at Ford WHQ.

Edited September 10, 2011 by RichardJensen

[Mark B. Morrow]

Ah, more 'things were better in the past' pointlessisms.

 

How is 1991 even remotely relevant? Ford used to have 75% of the US market. They don't any more. Pointless, maudlin maundering about the past is annoying here and counterproductive at Ford WHQ.

 

 

Sammy Maudlin? Wasn't his show sponsored by Lincoln?

[Marginal Economist]

doing WHAT?

(serious question, I really want to know)

This is pretty much the postion - from Ford's career site

 

Lincoln Experience Manager

 

The focus of this position will be to lead tactical execution and implementation of the (luxury) Lincoln "Customer Experience Strategy" within a Market Area.

 

•Develop / create the overall Lincoln in-Dealership consumer experience in the top 130 MP / MSA dealerships

•Execute in-Dealership Training for the Lincoln Customer Experience including extensive cultural, process and product training in each dealership

•Launch and sustain training regarding "Privileges of Lincoln Ownership" benefits and process in-Dealership

•Establish and co-ordinate Dealership Operating Standards throughout facility including all Customer Touchpoints (Sales, Service, Administrative)

•Manage cultural change throughout the dealership including organizational and process transformation

•Establish and monitor "Certified Sales Consultant Training" from an "experience point-of-view"

•Proactively support high priority / VIP customer concerns, assist Specialist's efforts

•Create and execute in-dealership and in-market customer experience programs

•Reposition / Reestablish Lincoln by developing / launching a brand plan focusing on key alliances in local markets:

•Brand Associations

•Brand Partners

•Corporate Citizenship / Charitable Endowment

•Co-ordinate plan with Lincoln Marketing Sales and Service Operations Manager

•Improve Lincoln Sales & Service Satisfaction, Sales & Service Loyalty, and Consumer Experience Metrics

•Achieve Lincoln brand Sales and Share / VIN Share Objectives

[jpd80]

Good point.

Lincoln is not gunning for Mercedes or BMW just trying to pick off a few Cadillac lounge lizards here and there.

 

Personally I'd get a Limited Taurus if I wanted a luxury Ford.

Because Ford graduated from making shopping trolleys to affordable quality vehicles, a $40,000 Ford luxury car is a watershed.

 

As pointed out before, Ford spent billions on Aston Martin, Jaguar, Land Rover and Volvo...all to no avail as the volume of

precious luxury buyers avoided/eluded Ford, the whole thing was a giant waste of time and money, just like Cadillac and Saab.

 

Lessons learned for that debacle has to be that all Lincolns must be on Ford shared platforms but have major distinctions

from their originators by having a dedicated top hat with sumptuous interiors and high class exterior treatment.

 

IMO, Lincoln's future rests with crossovers and Utilities more than sedans, vehicles like MKX, Aviator, navigator and even "Escape"

have far more bearing on Lincoln's fate than any HI PO sedan ever will. MKZ is great, MKS needs to be bigger and that's about it.

Six or seven correct vehicles is all that Lincoln needs to be successful, if each sold around 1500 to 2500/mth, that would be great.

Edited September 11, 2011 by jpd80

[BORG]

I have to wait and see on Lincoln, I am skeptical to the extreme that Ford knows how to produce a luxury division that appeals to a larger audience or changes minds and appeals to the young. Lincoln is not changing what it has already been doing, it's still a progressively better Ford product, but not necessarily a better looking Ford. I think the only real difference this time is that they have eliminated Mercury and will be expanding their portfolio to take over some of that lower MSRP volume. That will achieve immediate results, unless they botch their designs again. Building a luxury business takes time, ambition, and perseverance. The rebuilding really began in 2007 with the MKZ and MKX...that's when when the Lincoln of the future started...it has sputtered along the way...but that is the exact same processes pushing Lincoln into the future.

 

And indeed I think Lincoln will get a leg-up on the competition if it leverages its CUV/SUV portfolio from Ford.

Edited September 11, 2011 by BORG

[F250]

Ah, more 'things were better in the past' pointlessisms.

 

How is 1991 even remotely relevant? Ford used to have 75% of the US market. They don't any more. Pointless, maudlin maundering about the past is annoying here and counterproductive at Ford WHQ.

 

"Those who do not remember their past are condemned to repeat their mistakes"

[TomServo92]

"Those who do not remember their past are condemned to repeat their mistakes"

 

"I like the dreams of the future better than the history of the past."

 

Thomas Jefferson

 

"Change is the law of life. And those who look only to the past or present are certain to miss the future."

 

John F. Kennedy

[2b2]

This is pretty much the postion - from Ford's career site

Thanks, M.E.!

&

hmmm....

having had some barely similar experience way-back-when,

imho

this means part of the dealers' new agreement with Fomoco involves basically signing-over authority to these Experience Mgrs ... no way they'll be able to 'cajole' everyone & everything into shape

Edited September 11, 2011 by 2b2

[jpd80]

"Those who do not remember their past are condemned to repeat their mistakes"

 

Change with the market or go bankrupt......

The main game in the 1990s switched from luxury to SUVs and Trucks, Ford followed those two trends and

made a killing on F Truck and Explorer - those two vehicles carried every other Ford NA product on their back.

Lincoln and Cadillac lost their dominance as Lexus and European brands became far more competitive and took over.

 

The real mistake came when Jac Nasser tried to buy Luxury brands and turn them into another income stream that was supposed

to be as big as Ford Europe. The cost of maintaining and funding luxury platforms mean that all the profit from F Truck and Explorer

was squandered on Aston Martin, Jaguar, Land Rover and Volvo. Spending on Luxury brands nearly ruined Ford.

 

Lesson from the past... do not rely on Luxury vehicles to bring in massive profit, they are fools gold.

Edited September 11, 2011 by jpd80

[RichardJensen]

"Those who do not remember their past are condemned to repeat their mistakes"

1 - There's a difference between understanding the past and wallowing in it.

 

2 - That's not what George Santayana said.

[F250]

Change with the market or go bankrupt......

The main game in the 1990s switched from luxury to SUVs and Trucks, Ford followed those two trends and

made a killing on F Truck and Explorer - those two vehicles carried every other Ford NA product on their back.

Lincoln and Cadillac lost their dominance as Lexus and European brands became far more competitive and took over.

 

The real mistake came when Jac Nasser tried to buy Luxury brands and turn them into another income stream that was supposed

to be as big as Ford Europe. The cost of maintaining and funding luxury platforms mean that all the profit from F Truck and Explorer

was squandered on Aston Martin, Jaguar, Land Rover and Volvo. Spending on Luxury brands nearly ruined Ford.

 

Lesson from the past... do not rely on Luxury vehicles to bring in massive profit, they are fools gold.

 

That's where I was going.

As I said above Ford appears to be wisely limiting their investment in Lincoln.

 

I'll admit when talk began about rebuilding Lincoln I wanted seperate RWD purpose built luxury / performance platforms that could challenge the best but as others pointed out that's way too expensive right now and existing Ford platforms will have to be used. Remembering the outrageous money squandered on the brands listed above without making a dent in the high end luxury market will prevent a repeat of that failure. The bottom line of course is Ford can easily survive without Lincoln or playing in the luxury market.

 

That said if Lincoln would have had a fraction of the money that Ford spent on those 4 brands they would have never lost the market IMO.

[akirby]

That said if Lincoln would have had a fraction of the money that Ford spent on those 4 brands they would have never lost the market IMO.

 

I don't think money alone would have helped. Getting rid of Jag/AM/Volvo and Mercury PLUS the commitment from management to do what's necessary to make Lincoln competitive PLUS the funds to do it is what will make Lincoln successful.

[2b2]

...I'll admit when talk began about rebuilding Lincoln I wanted seperate RWD purpose built luxury / performance platforms that could challenge the best but as others pointed out that's way too expensive right now and existing Ford platforms will have to be used....

 

...That said if Lincoln would have had a fraction of the money that Ford spent on those 4 brands they would have never lost the market IMO.

I agree about not immediately - Imho Lincoln has a LOT of work to do**

before using up the potential in F-Awd platforms

but

I really want to see positive momentum** continued

and

in not that many years** imho they must add RWD or find themselves on a plateau or worse, a slippery slope

 

re: the money - imho by itself is not enough

also required are the vision & purpose & commitment that

imho we still haven't seen displayed

 

 

** for a winning "trajectory", imho they need to burn through the F-Awd "booster rocket" and ignite the RWD-second stage in 2 years ...3 years tops

and, NO, it doesn't quite sound like that's their Plan to me either

[2005Explorer]

Ford only has 2 brands to maintain at this point. If they can't make Lincoln into something great then that means Lincoln as a brand is too damaged to get notice and respect by luxury car buyers. I think limiting Lincoln to be a brand that only Cadillac, Lexus and possibly Buick owners might shop when they are looking for a new vehicle is the wrong strategy. Lincoln needs to stand with the best if it is going to get respect in the luxury market. When Ford had a half dozen brands to engineer, maintain and market I can see why Lincoln would get shorted, but there is no excuse now. If they want Lincoln to be one of the best and most respected luxury car builders of the future then they need to invest big on product and marketing. They need to run the ball to the end zone and not just settle for a field goal.

[BORG]

Ford only has 2 brands to maintain at this point. If they can't make Lincoln into something great then that means Lincoln as a brand is too damaged to get notice and respect by luxury car buyers. I think limiting Lincoln to be a brand that only Cadillac, Lexus and possibly Buick owners might shop when they are looking for a new vehicle is the wrong strategy. Lincoln needs to stand with the best if it is going to get respect in the luxury market. When Ford had a half dozen brands to engineer, maintain and market I can see why Lincoln would get shorted, but there is no excuse now. If they want Lincoln to be one of the best and most respected luxury car builders of the future then they need to invest big on product and marketing. They need to run the ball to the end zone and not just settle for a field goal.

 

It takes time in this business to change perceptions, it's that hardest thing to do. It's easy to spend money, but it never guarantees customers (just ask GM). Ford isn't spending a tremendous amount on Lincoln, which makes it harder to kill off if results are poor.

 

Lincoln needs to do something that distinguishes itself from the rest of the heard of Lexus wannabes. That's what I'm worried about with Lincoln, I don't understand what they want to stand for yet. I thought Lincoln had a good thing going in 2007 with it's emphasis on urban chique design...but then it reverted back to non-destinctive conservative wannabe design. Admittedly I didn't like the over-board semi-retro aesthetic of the interiors of the era, but it really gave an innovative vision for Lincoln...and then they completely lost that edge with the MKS and beyond (not to mention an abusive relationship with the split-wing grille).

Edited September 12, 2011 by BORG

[jpd80]

That's where I was going.

As I said above Ford appears to be wisely limiting their investment in Lincoln.

 

I'll admit when talk began about rebuilding Lincoln I wanted seperate RWD purpose built luxury / performance platforms that could challenge the best but as others pointed out that's way too expensive right now and existing Ford platforms will have to be used. Remembering the outrageous money squandered on the brands listed above without making a dent in the high end luxury market will prevent a repeat of that failure. The bottom line of course is Ford can easily survive without Lincoln or playing in the luxury market.

 

That said if Lincoln would have had a fraction of the money that Ford spent on those 4 brands they would have never lost the market IMO.

Lincoln has great potential and I can see that Ford wants to transform Lincoln and bring in new customer base but also take existing customers along with them. This is a tricky transitional time where Ford has to use its own platforms as a spring board to get Lincoln up and rolling with great products that don't cost the earth whilst still being made in Ford plants without too many changes.

 

God help us if Ford decides to do a Cadillac and set up a dedicated plant with expensive platform like Sigma CTS, they dropped a fortune in cash on that car and only get around 4,000/mth in sales. By comparison, MKZ sells at about half of that rate but cost a fraction to develop. I can see why Cadillac are now looking to existing platforms to help even up the numbers but they still look to be dabbling in more RWD product, Zeta bits on Sigma and new Alpha, all expensive developments...

 

So what am I saying?

Transformation of Ford products:

Mercury -> lightly engineered changes

Current Lincoln -> different sheet metal and trims

Next Lincoln -> dedicated Top hats - more differentiation

 

Down the track, maybe Falcon, Mustang and Territory with different top hats become Lincolns with even more distinction to domestic US production platforms, just a thought but if you don't see a Ford originator for "that Lincoln" it makes the car even more exclusive. Maybe different top hats will give the level of distinction needed to separate Lincoln from Ford without the "RWD cousins".No doubt, this will be an interesting but drawn out period where nothing seems to be happening but then suddenly, Lincoln is transformed into a desirable brand with a much bigger customer base...

Edited September 12, 2011 by jpd80

[Captainp4]

I think they're doing the best they can with what they have right now. It wouldn't make much sense to develop a completely unique platform for Lincoln at this point and have it sell at MKT levels if they get it wrong. If/when GRWD happens and we start seeing variations of it in the Ford lineup, then I think they can do something with unique tophat Lincoln versions. I just think a Lincoln only platform at this point is too risky. They need to build up to that level with the groundwork of the more pedestrian models that offer everything else luxury besides the big performance/handling characteristics of RWD.

[Bob Rosadini]

Just another thought as a lot of discussion takes place as to if in fact Lincoln can ever develop a following as a true luxury brand.

 

What about Hyundai? Who would have ever dreamed they would produce the luxury car they have. I have no clue as to their sales success in the market place, but have you ever read anything negative about it? Iread nothing but good press.

 

Then again, it seems there is always a lot of negativity as to Ford's ability to make it in any given market, yet people with absolutely no presence in a given market dare jump in- and do so with success i.e. ...Hino, conventional medium trucks, Hyundai, luxury segment.

[silvrsvt]

Just another thought as a lot of discussion takes place as to if in fact Lincoln can ever develop a following as a true luxury brand.

 

What about Hyundai? Who would have ever dreamed they would produce the luxury car they have. I have no clue as to their sales success in the market place, but have you ever read anything negative about it? Iread nothing but good press.

 

Then again, it seems there is always a lot of negativity as to Ford's ability to make it in any given market, yet people with absolutely no presence in a given market dare jump in- and do so with success i.e. ...Hino, conventional medium trucks, Hyundai, luxury segment.

 

The Genesis hasn't been a huge success...and well its saddled with the Hyundai name. The problem with Lincoln is that its tarnished nameplate with lots of negativity, but its also not thought of as "Cheap" like Hyundia

 

Being successful in press doesn't always equate to being actually successful.