Jump to content

August 2011 Sales Results


Recommended Posts

That is the balance Ford is striving for. As long as you don't opt for the Titanium type editions they are very comparable to their competition....better I'd say. Nothing wrong with the Titanium Editions, they have unique features.......and price tags.

 

Exactly and that is why I just don't see the next Escape being priced that much higher then the current model. Possibly a Titanium might be a little higher with a few more features then the current Limited, but a huge price increase across the line just doesn't seem likely.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Depending on what it looks like in actual form and on the lot, we will be looking to trade in our 2010 Mariner on a 2013 Escape. I would go about 1K over the 2012 price for a new design/platform but not much more than that. It is still going to be the entry level SUV for Ford isn't it? We just like the size and looks of the present platform, hopefully it won't go too far from where it is now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So I understand inventory from a cash flow perspective. But could sales have been up even more if the inventory levels were higher? Are people looking at the Focus - not seeing what they want and cross shopping the Cruze? I for one, will not deal with dealer trades, I don't want to buy a car without going over every inch of before I sign. Some people don't want to put up with the dealer trade thing, or want to have any significant miles driven on it to reach their local dealership.

 

The reason why Ford had 22,000 and 20,000 focuses to sell in may and june, is because they had months of inventory on hand form the original batch hold when the car launched. The only way Ford can catch up with demand and build inventory levels is to A) import from Germany, B) add a third shift a month ago.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The MSRPs probably won't move much, but ATPs will.

 

This. ^^^

 

Base MSRP won't go up much if at all, but they'll offer Titanium models with more options and better materials than they offer today and there are SOME people willing to pay for them.

 

Newsflash to 2005explorer - you are not the ONLY person looking to buy an Escape. Just because YOU don't want a loaded Titanium model doesn't mean there aren't tens of thousands of other buyers that do want them and are willing to pay for them.

 

I don't understand why this is so hard for you to accept. This is the EXACT SAME argument we had about the new Focus. " Focus buyers want values. Nobody will pay a premium for a loaded Focus." Now we see $27K Titanium models being sold alongside $17K base models.

 

Ford lost $3K on every old Focus. They probably make twice that much on average on the new one and it's a much nicer car. More expensive? A little but well worth it.

 

It's not about what you want or what I want - it's about what MOST buyers want and are willing to pay for. And that's typically not what you want. Sorry but that's reality.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This. ^^^

 

Base MSRP won't go up much if at all, but they'll offer Titanium models with more options and better materials than they offer today and there are SOME people willing to pay for them.

 

Newsflash to 2005explorer - you are not the ONLY person looking to buy an Escape. Just because YOU don't want a loaded Titanium model doesn't mean there aren't tens of thousands of other buyers that do want them and are willing to pay for them.

 

I don't understand why this is so hard for you to accept. This is the EXACT SAME argument we had about the new Focus. " Focus buyers want values. Nobody will pay a premium for a loaded Focus." Now we see $27K Titanium models being sold alongside $17K base models.

 

Ford lost $3K on every old Focus. They probably make twice that much on average on the new one and it's a much nicer car. More expensive? A little but well worth it.

 

It's not about what you want or what I want - it's about what MOST buyers want and are willing to pay for. And that's typically not what you want. Sorry but that's reality.

 

It's funny that the same people who won't accept the current Escape as being a very successful product try and argue that vehicles like the MKT are actually the ones that are successful because they make more profit per unit. Sure it's not all about sales numbers, but if I actually had some money to bet I'd be willing to bet that the current Escape selling at over 20,000+ copies a month is making Ford a lot more total money then 400+ MKTs. Go ahead and disagree if you want. The fact is you can raise ATP's, but if sales falter over a few thousand units then you end up with a net loss.

 

Look at every small SUV out there. Escape is killing them all in YTD sales. Literally KILLING them by 30,000 to 100,000 units. If people are demanding that small SUVs become more car like and all use a copy cat design it shouldn't be this way. You can say well if you add up all the rest of the copy cats then they outsell the Escape. Well adding up every small SUV and saying they outsell the Escape is like adding up every pickup other then the F-Series and saying people don't really want the F-Series because the rest added up are outselling it. There is demand for a small SUV that looks like an SUV. You say style doesn't matter. I say it does.

 

You can keep pointing to the Focus as proof that this new strategy works and your right it worked with the Focus. I never argued that it wouldn't. Although sales are weaker on the new model right now compared to the outgoing model I am going to agree that supply issues are working against it right now. As far as Ford losing $3k on every previous Focus built please find me some proof of that. Yes there was a time that Ford was losing on the Focus, but I believe after the 2008 redesign they started to make some money on it. Of course nothing like they are making now, but I know I read somewhere that one thing they wanted to do with the 2008+ model was start adding more value to increase profit on the line. I can promise you the current Escape is not a money loser for them if you want to try and get into that argument.

 

Replacing an older model with a new model that is more expensive doesn't always work like you try and claim it does. Maybe you don't remember a car called Contour, but I do. There was a no frills little car that came before it called Tempo. The Tempo sold and sold very well. It was long in the tooth and ready for replacement, but instead of introducing a replacement model that offered great value for the money they decided to replace it with the "world car" Contour. The Contour was a lot more expensive then the Tempo and pricing wise it crept deep into Taurus territory. It also sacrificed capability that customers were looking for in a small sedan. In the end Contour failed. If Ford would have taken the Tempo and gave it a very thoughtful redesign and packed it full of value while keeping it priced well below the Taurus there is no doubt in my mind that it would have been a much more successful product then the Contour. Basically if you take the Escape and pull a Contour on it there is no doubt in my mind that it will fail.

 

All I am saying is that in these hard times the Escape needs to stay true to itself as a value packed small SUV that offers a lot of perks and capability for the price. The current one stands out as not only a great value, but offers a different look that appeals to customers that like that outdoorsy look. They would rather picture themselves heading into the Black Hills for a weekend camping trip next to a fresh stream instead of beating the pavement of Atlanta. I know image doesn't matter right? The new Explorer versus the Flex proves that image does matter. I look at the Explorer and it makes me think of exploring new places and finding a cool place back in the woods. I look at the Flex and I think metro streets and shopping at the mall. Truth be told the Flex is probably a better overall package as a family hauler compared to the Explorer, but the customers have spoken and the outdoor image kills the urban image when it comes to SUVs... especially Ford SUVs.

 

If the next Escape outsells the current one I will eat my words and admit I was wrong. If the new one sputters I will have been right. If it sells at about the same rate plus or minus a few then its a wash, however usually the idea of introducing a new model is to increase sales over an older model. At least that is the way it is supposed to work.

 

In closing I will say this much... I'd like someone to find me a vehicle line that has been out for 10 years with a facelift 4 years ago that is up 30% YTD. Go ahead and dig back into history if you wish. I will be waiting...

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sure it's not all about sales numbers, but if I actually had some money to bet I'd be willing to bet that the current Escape selling at over 20,000+ copies a month is making Ford a lot more total money then 400+ MKTs. Go ahead and disagree if you want. The fact is you can raise ATP's, but if sales falter over a few thousand units then you end up with a net loss.

 

But you can't possibly sell 20K MKTs - nobody does. That market segment is small and the market leader is only selling 2K units or less. Nobody said the MKT was a success - we just said it wasn't a total failure because expected volume in this segment is low and ATPs were high.

 

You're also totally ignoring the other big driver here - the new Escape is a global vehicle replacing the Kuga outside the U.S. So even if U.S. sales and profit falls a little (which I don't think will happen) it could still be a net positive for the company because they're consolidating two unique platforms into one.

 

Look at every small SUV out there. Escape is killing them all in YTD sales. Literally KILLING them by 30,000 to 100,000 units.

 

Exactly. And the BOF Explorer once sold over 400K units per year. But it didn't evolve and it got left behind. Ford isn't going to let that happen with the Escape.

 

If the next Escape outsells the current one I will eat my words and admit I was wrong.

 

Yes you will. But you have to compare current Escape plus Kuga worldwide against the new Escape and Kuga.

 

I swear you're worse than the Panther Mafia.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I swear you're worse than the Panther Mafia.

 

Ford is killing the whole idea of the Escape SUV while it is in the middle of it's most successful year ever and replacing it with a Focus wagon on stilts. The Panther peaked 25 years ago. I can't believe you of all people can't see the difference between those two arguments.

Edited by 2005Explorer
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ford is killing the whole idea of the Escape SUV while it is in the middle of it's most successful year ever and replacing it with a Focus wagon on stilts. The Panther peaked 25 years ago. I can't believe you of all people can't see the difference between those two arguments.

 

They're replacing an ancient Mazda 626 on stilts with a modern Focus on stilts. We own a 2010 Escape, and love it. We like the look, though the blocky profile is horribly dated. It is a great CUV. Let's take it for what it is.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ford is killing the whole idea of the Escape SUV while it is in the middle of it's most successful year ever and replacing it with a Focus wagon on stilts. The Panther peaked 25 years ago. I can't believe you of all people can't see the difference between those two arguments.

 

The only reason you're quoting sales numbers is because you LIKE the current Escape and don't want it to change. You don't care whether Ford makes money or how many they sell as long as you can buy what you want. It's perfectly understandable but don't try to rationalize it as a good business decision. And that's exactly what the Panther Mafia did.

 

Even a current Escape owner admits it's horribly dated.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

They're replacing an ancient Mazda 626 on stilts with a modern Focus on stilts. We own a 2010 Escape, and love it. We like the look, though the blocky profile is horribly dated. It is a great CUV. Let's take it for what it is.

 

The current Escape is not just a Mazda 626 on stilts. It is actually called the CD2 platform and although loosely based on the 626 it was in fact specially designed with certain SUV durability standards in mind. Crawl under an Escape 4WD and look at the drive line and shafts and then crawl under a Fusion AWD and take a look. The Escape is a lot beefier then the Fusion. Do the same with competing small crossovers and you will find the same thing. The Escape is better built underneath then most of the others on the market. I don't see this being the case with a Focus on stilts, but maybe they will beef it up the same way they did the current Escape. I guess we will find out soon.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The current Escape is not just a Mazda 626 on stilts. It is actually called the CD2 platform and although loosely based on the 626 it was in fact specially designed with certain SUV durability standards in mind. Crawl under an Escape 4WD and look at the drive line and shafts and then crawl under a Fusion AWD and take a look. The Escape is a lot beefier then the Fusion. Do the same with competing small crossovers and you will find the same thing. The Escape is better built underneath then most of the others on the market. I don't see this being the case with a Focus on stilts, but maybe they will beef it up the same way they did the current Escape. I guess we will find out soon.

 

For the hundredth time - who does serious off-roading in an Escape????

Link to comment
Share on other sites

For the hundredth time - who does serious off-roading in an Escape????

 

For the hundredth time you think everyone lives in a city and never drives off the pavement because that is your life experience. There are A LOT of people that use their Escapes as SUVs and take light off road adventures. You want the vehicles lightened up as much as possible because your only concern is MPG. I want decent MPG, but I also want something that is strong enough to pull my snowmobile up to the unloading point and can handle pulling the trailer through a little snow without twisting off the driveshaft. You say none of that matters... make um cheap and charge a lot. I kindly disagree.

 

Ok so I should be saying the current Escape has been a complete market failure and should have been cancelled years ago? It kills you to admit that the current Escape has been one of Ford's most successful products over the past few years because you don't like it. My only argument is that Ford should consider what has made the current Escape so popular and work to make a better version of it... not something completely different.

 

You just want me to admit that the current Escape is a terrible vehicle and a market failure and that the new one will be 20 times more successful. Sorry I love my Escape and so do many other customers. I know a lot of repeat Escape buyers. I mean A LOT. You would be surprised how popular that little SUV is if you got out of the city and started to transverse the country. It's reliable, very capable and affordable. You don't like the word affordable because it doesn't sound like big money, but there are a lot of us lower middle class or working class people who still like to drive something decent that is full of capability for a good price. News flash... the country is still in recession and people are scared and stretched thin right now. They aren't shopping their Lincoln dealers in mass numbers, but they are looking for good capable, sensible transportation. Ford can offer all the Titanium models they want and they can try and sell $40,000 Escapes, but if they don't also offer high value models dealership traffic will fall off the cliff.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The current Escape is not just a Mazda 626 on stilts. It is actually called the CD2 platform and although loosely based on the 626 it was in fact specially designed with certain SUV durability standards in mind. Crawl under an Escape 4WD and look at the drive line and shafts and then crawl under a Fusion AWD and take a look. The Escape is a lot beefier then the Fusion. Do the same with competing small crossovers and you will find the same thing. The Escape is better built underneath then most of the others on the market. I don't see this being the case with a Focus on stilts, but maybe they will beef it up the same way they did the current Escape. I guess we will find out soon.

 

there is 0 in common with the Fusion and the Escape.

 

this is the 626

800px-98-99_Mazda_626.jpg

 

the platform was called GF not CD2 or any other mythical name you can think of. it was launched in 1998 that is 13 years ago it is time for it to die.

 

The Escape is a CUV

The Escape is a CUV

The Escape is a CUV

The Escape is a CUV

The Escape is a CUV

The Escape is a CUV

The Escape is a CUV

The Escape is a CUV

The Escape is a CUV

 

Please get a Grip.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

there is 0 in common with the Fusion and the Escape.

 

this is the 626

800px-98-99_Mazda_626.jpg

 

the platform was called GF not CD2 or any other mythical name you can think of. it was launched in 1998 that is 13 years ago it is time for it to die.

 

The Escape is a CUV

The Escape is a CUV

The Escape is a CUV

The Escape is a CUV

The Escape is a CUV

The Escape is a CUV

The Escape is a CUV

The Escape is a CUV

The Escape is a CUV

 

 

Please get a Grip.

 

You better go in and correct the Wikipedia article because it is wrong then...

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_CD2_platform

 

Alright the Escape is junk. If anyone is reading this please buy anything but the Escape. This vehicle should have been killed by Ford years ago since it has been a complete failure. Now you will all be happy.

Edited by 2005Explorer
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Alright the Escape is junk. If anyone is reading this please buy anything but the Escape. This vehicle should have been killed by Ford years ago since it has been a complete failure. Now you will all be happy.

 

Seems like the biggest hang up with have with the upcoming Escape is the styling....so what? Things change. I seriously doubt there is going to be a huge change in what the truck is capable in doing with the next Gen model, besides having a better ride, better MPG, a far better interior, etc....

 

When my GF wanted her Escape, I was never impressed with it, but after driving it and using it, I really like it. The V6 gives good performance and MPG and the truck goes like stink in the snow we've had the past couple winter. However, the I bet the new Escape is just as good and better in fit and finish and just overall quality.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Seems like the biggest hang up with have with the upcoming Escape is the styling....so what? Things change. I seriously doubt there is going to be a huge change in what the truck is capable in doing with the next Gen model, besides having a better ride, better MPG, a far better interior, etc....

 

If the Mustang looked like a 2 door Fusion, but kept all it's capabilities, or even improved on them a little bit, except instead of the V8 they only offered the Ecoboost V6, would it still be a Mustang? Would people say "so what? Things change."?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Seems like the biggest hang up with have with the upcoming Escape is the styling....so what? Things change.

 

First impressions are important.

Most customers will not test drive a vehicle if they do not like the styling. And that doesnt mean all buyers want the same thing, some prefer traditional yet up to date style while others want whatever is trendy this year.

 

How many people test drove Hyundai after they went to the Nike Swoosh trendy style...people that never looked at previous Hyundais.

 

The cute-ute market pioneered by the Rav-4 may prefer traditional styling...if Escape sales numbers are any indication.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

For the hundredth time you think everyone lives in a city and never drives off the pavement because that is your life experience. There are A LOT of people that use their Escapes as SUVs and take light off road adventures. You want the vehicles lightened up as much as possible because your only concern is MPG. I want decent MPG, but I also want something that is strong enough to pull my snowmobile up to the unloading point and can handle pulling the trailer through a little snow without twisting off the driveshaft. You say none of that matters... make um cheap and charge a lot. I kindly disagree.

 

Ok so I should be saying the current Escape has been a complete market failure and should have been cancelled years ago? It kills you to admit that the current Escape has been one of Ford's most successful products over the past few years because you don't like it. My only argument is that Ford should consider what has made the current Escape so popular and work to make a better version of it... not something completely different.

 

You just want me to admit that the current Escape is a terrible vehicle and a market failure and that the new one will be 20 times more successful. Sorry I love my Escape and so do many other customers. I know a lot of repeat Escape buyers. I mean A LOT. You would be surprised how popular that little SUV is if you got out of the city and started to transverse the country. It's reliable, very capable and affordable. You don't like the word affordable because it doesn't sound like big money, but calthere are a lot of us lower middle class or working class people who still like to drive something decent that is full of capability for a good price. News flash... the country is still in recession and people are scared and stretched thin right now. They aren't shopping their Lincoln dealers in mass numbers, but they are looking for good capable, sensible transportation. Ford can offer all the Titanium models they want and they can try and sell $40,000 Escapes, but if they don't also offer high value models dealership traffic will fall off the cliff.

 

I said SERIOUS off-roading and I guarantee you that 90% of Escape owners never leave the pavement. Same with Explorer and Expedition.

 

Anyone who wants to buy an inexpensive Escape now will still be able to buy an inexpensive version of the new one. And I don't think the off-road capability will be much different than it is now. The difference is the new styling will appeal to a much bigger audience and there will be more options and a top end Titanium model for those who want to spend the money.

 

The only thing that will be drastically different is the styling and while you hate it there are hundreds of thousands of potential buyers that will love it and you'll simply have to deal with it.

 

You're still just upset that they're changing your favorite vehicle. Get over it.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I said SERIOUS off-roading and I guarantee you that 90% of Escape owners never leave the pavement. Same with Explorer and Expedition.

 

Anyone who wants to buy an inexpensive Escape now will still be able to buy an inexpensive version of the new one. And I don't think the off-road capability will be much different than it is now. The difference is the new styling will appeal to a much bigger audience and there will be more options and a top end Titanium model for those who want to spend the money.

 

The only thing that will be drastically different is the styling and while you hate it there are hundreds of thousands of potential buyers that will love it and you'll simply have to deal with it.

 

You're still just upset that they're changing your favorite vehicle. Get over it.

 

The way the Escape has been marketed over the years, I don't think there were any real implications that it was a SERIOUS off-roading. Yes, it's pictured towing a small boat or going through an unpaved road with kayaks or bikes on the roof. But I don't recall any rock-climbing or huge winter drifts being part of the equation like, say, an Jeep Liberty or a Raptor. Any time I hear people talking about off-roading an "SUV", I'm thinking going a trail with rocks and gullies, or huge unplowed areas. Things like pulling snowmobiles, boats, or hitting that gravel road to their cottage doesn't really constitute off-roading -- at least for me.

 

But holy jumpin'! I just can't understand how the last two pages of this thread has been all about the Escape. Surely that's enough to change Ford's decision to keep the current generation...:rolleyes:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just remember that in 2008, when the Escape was updated, so many said that they did so little with the exterior styling, that it was doomed to failure!

 

Also the Fusion, a car equally important to Ford and is currently a smash success, is being changed. Why does everyone assume the new style will be a huge hit despite no one outside of Ford has ever viewed it? Couldn't it be argued that at least a part of the Fusion's success may be its styling? No one here seems concerned about that.

 

As far as capabilities, people worried about the Escape's possible loss of off road ability, don't seem concerned about the possibility of the Fusion being 4 cyl models only.

 

Most will say this is apples to oranges, but I think Ford is keenly aware of why people like the cars and CUVs they drive (I don't consider the Escape an SUV), and I think they will try to keep the best features. They style has to change at some point like it or not. I am also worried about the possibility of people rejecting the new look like 2005 Escape, (I'm also worried about Fusion and Lincolns) but I'm willing to go on a leap of faith seeing some of the current hits Ford has.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As far as capabilities, people worried about the Escape's possible loss of off road ability, don't seem concerned about the possibility of the Fusion being 4 cyl models only.

 

I don't like the idea that the Escape or Fusion are rumored to be going 4 cylinder only, however it is best not to mention that around here or you will get flamed hard. If you want a V6 in a mid-size sedan or small crossover in the future pay up for a Lincoln or go to another brand.

 

No, no, no, in internet forum world, all Escapes are stripper models with huge incentives selling for $15k. (And all Flex are Titanium Ecoboost Models selling for $50k.)

 

Yes and those Flexes are selling like hotcakes without one penny of incentives!

Edited by 2005Explorer
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...