NickF1011 Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 The Vertek (nee: Kuga) should be a Lincoln version with the more "boxy" style going to Escape for the masses of Ford faithful that really like the look of the vehicle. My girlfriend is on her 3rd Escape and after I showed her the Vertek concept she was not impressed with the look of it at all. Well, I hope she enjoys her new Patriot when she trades in her Escape, cuz that's the only "boxy" CUV left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 I have no visibility issues in my Edge. :shrug: Too bad you can't say the same for the guy that rear-ended you....he certainly had "visibility issues" with your Edge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 Too bad you can't say the same for the guy that rear-ended you....he certainly had "visibility issues" with your Edge. Actually, the guy who rear-ended me saw me fine. It was the lady who ran into him that didn't seem to see either of us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullynd Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 Well, I hope she enjoys her new Patriot when she trades in her Escape, cuz that's the only "boxy" CUV left. Fortunately people do not lock themselves into categories when buying vehicles - I'd hoped to replace my Escape with another, but will have to go outside of the Ford family now. With the Wrangler getting the pentastar V6 it looks like it's in the running, even though I'm loath to buy a Fiat product. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 (edited) Fortunately people do not lock themselves into categories when buying vehicles - I'd hoped to replace my Escape with another, but will have to go outside of the Ford family now. With the Wrangler getting the pentastar V6 it looks like it's in the running, even though I'm loath to buy a Fiat product. So, without having even seen or driven the new Escape you are already writing it off? Enjoy that Wrangler. Hopefully it is more reliable than the '10 Rubicon a friend of mine bought which has been back to the shop at least a half dozen times for warranty repairs. Edited June 2, 2011 by NickF1011 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullynd Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 So, without having even seen or driven the new Escape you are already writing it off? Yes, absolutely. If it looks only 50% like the Vertrek it's at least 50% a vehicle I would never own. If I wanted a RAV4 I'd have bought one. Love my Escape, it's what made me a Ford fan, but this thing is no Escape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 Yes, absolutely. If it looks only 50% like the Vertrek it's at least 50% a vehicle I would never own. If I wanted a RAV4 I'd have bought one. Love my Escape, it's what made me a Ford fan, but this thing is no Escape. If the new design helps woo a few of those current RAV4 owners in to take your place, then I don't think Ford will mind. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullynd Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 (edited) If the new design helps woo a few of those current RAV4 owners in to take your place, then I don't think Ford will mind. If it means throngs of current Escape buyers find other vehicles I think Ford might. The Escape is at the top of the sales charts. The Vertrek could end up being the 96 Taurus all over again. I know several people who are repeat Escape buyers, and I don't expect any of them will end up in a Verscape. Edited June 2, 2011 by sullynd 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 (edited) If it means throngs of current Escape buyers find other vehicles I think Ford might. That's highly unlikely. Where are they going to go? They aren't all going to buy Wranglers, that's for sure. Frankly, I'd be willing to bet the vast majority of previous Escape owners didn't buy another Escape anyway. Most Escape owners I know are either childless or couples with very small children. Once the kids get bigger or they have more kids, the Escape is simply too small for them to buy another one. The new Escape likely will appeal far better to people entering the segment than it will to returning Escape owners. I am willing to concede that. I find that to be acceptable though, since returning Escape owners are likely a far smaller group of potential buyers than those who did not previously own one. Edited June 2, 2011 by NickF1011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullynd Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 That's highly unlikely. Where are they going to go? They aren't all going to buy Wranglers, that's for sure. They could end up anywhere - It's not as if a consumer who would consider an Escape "needs" a CUV, or locks themselves into categories. I buy vehicles because on want them, not because they fit in a certain category. When I bought my Escape the Xterra was the runner up. When I replace it there will be any number of vehicles I'll look at, and the vast majority of them will not be "CUVs". Where are they going to go? If the Escape looks like a RAV, may as well consider a RAV, CRV, Sorento, etc. Or an Edge. If I wanted a vehicle which looks like everything else on the road why not consider a different one which looks like everything else on the road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 (edited) They could end up anywhere - It's not as if a consumer who would consider an Escape "needs" a CUV, or locks themselves into categories. I buy vehicles because on want them, not because they fit in a certain category. When I bought my Escape the Xterra was the runner up. When I replace it there will be any number of vehicles I'll look at, and the vast majority of them will not be "CUVs". Where are they going to go? If the Escape looks like a RAV, may as well consider a RAV, CRV, Sorento, etc. Or an Edge. If I wanted a vehicle which looks like everything else on the road why not consider a different one which looks like everything else on the road. Most Escape owners currently probably already considered the RAV4, CRV, Sorento, Edge, etc. I think you are putting far too much weight in the "I like it cuz it looks like a truck" category of Escape owners -- especially considering that there are 80,000 or so small CUV shoppers every month that you could argue didn't buy the Escape "cuz it looks like a truck". Edited June 2, 2011 by NickF1011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 Well, I hope she enjoys her new Patriot when she trades in her Escape, cuz that's the only "boxy" CUV left. You're gonna make me heave dude...... :barf: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 They could end up anywhere - It's not as if a consumer who would consider an Escape "needs" a CUV, or locks themselves into categories. I buy vehicles because on want them, not because they fit in a certain category. When I bought my Escape the Xterra was the runner up. When I replace it there will be any number of vehicles I'll look at, and the vast majority of them will not be "CUVs". Where are they going to go? If the Escape looks like a RAV, may as well consider a RAV, CRV, Sorento, etc. Or an Edge. If I wanted a vehicle which looks like everything else on the road why not consider a different one which looks like everything else on the road. It has the highest rebates of all Ford current models except trucks. The Vertrek will be more desirable to the folks that want them and will have more options so it will have higher ATPs and less incentives which equals a lot more profit, especially when you add in the fact that the platform costs can be amortized by European Kuga sales. So I don't think Ford cares if it loses a few buyers because it will gain new ones and make more money on fewer sales in the meantime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
probowler Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 Well, I hope she enjoys her new Patriot when she trades in her Escape, cuz that's the only "boxy" CUV left. Honda disagrees Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
probowler Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 Most people on the ford escape forum I visit hate the new "escape" Hope Ford gets lucky and is able to replacie its old consumer base 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wptski Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 If it means throngs of current Escape buyers find other vehicles I think Ford might. The Escape is at the top of the sales charts. The Vertrek could end up being the 96 Taurus all over again. I know several people who are repeat Escape buyers, and I don't expect any of them will end up in a Verscape. Correct! The so-called Escape replacement or VerTrek with a small engine, what can onr tow? Your kid's Red Flyer wagon?? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rscalzo Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 Correct! The so-called Escape replacement or VerTrek with a small engine, what can onr tow? Your kid's Red Flyer wagon?? I don't see towing as a big issue with most Escape owners. KI see tons up here in NH and rarely is one pulling anything. Maybe a small trailer with a ATV/ Snowmobile or landscaping equipment. Anything larger and they are driving much larger vehicles. Wouldn't sway my a bit. But the smaller cargo area is a major factor for me and it would be a deal breaker. At that point, maybe the EX might be of interest although the third row seat just bugs me. Takes up room I'd rather use as secure storage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wptski Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 I don't see towing as a big issue with most Escape owners. KI see tons up here in NH and rarely is one pulling anything. Maybe a small trailer with a ATV/ Snowmobile or landscaping equipment. Anything larger and they are driving much larger vehicles. Wouldn't sway my a bit. But the smaller cargo area is a major factor for me and it would be a deal breaker. At that point, maybe the EX might be of interest although the third row seat just bugs me. Takes up room I'd rather use as secure storage. Might be a smaller cargo area because is has a smaller GVW. The current Escape's load capacity is >#1000. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 Honda disagrees Pardon. Only boxy compact CUV left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 Correct! The so-called Escape replacement or VerTrek with a small engine, what can onr tow? Your kid's Red Flyer wagon?? The current Kuga already has tow ratings on par with the Escape. The towing concern is a non-issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullynd Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 Pardon. Only boxy compact CUV left. apologies to anyone who threw up a little bit at viewing the image Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullynd Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 (edited) The current Kuga already has tow ratings on par with the Escape. The towing concern is a non-issue. Tow ratings do not necessarily translate across the pond. Kuga's tow rating is meaningless with respect to the Verscapes tow rating. It's possible it will match the Escape's tow rating, but unlikely. Edited June 3, 2011 by sullynd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 (edited) apologies to anyone who threw up a little bit at viewing the image To me, the Terrain is boxy in a far different way than the Patriot or Escape. Yes, it uses angled shapes, but it's less a traditional 2-box design than the other two in my eyes, especially when viewed from the side. The only thing particularly "boxy" about the Terrain is the grille and fenders. And like I said before, there's no defense for the statement that maybe most of the small CUV market isn't buying the Escape because it looks too trucky. The piece of the market that is larger is the more car-like end of it. Wouldn't it be wiser to chase after the larger slice of the pie? Edited June 3, 2011 by NickF1011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullynd Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 To me, the Terrain is boxy in a far different way than the Patriot or Escape. Yes, it uses angled shapes, but it's less a traditional 2-box design than the other two in my eyes, especially when viewed from the side. Doesn't seem to different to me: And like I said before, there's no defense for the statement that maybe most of the small CUV market isn't buying the Escape because it looks too trucky. The piece of the market that is larger is the more car-like end of it. Wouldn't it be wiser to chase after the larger slice of the pie? If the Escape were in the same boat as the Explorer was I would agree with you. Escape is at the top of the sales chart. Ford doesn't really have room to gain sales, only lose them. If they're lucky they'll stay close on volume and make more on higher ATPs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 Doesn't seem to different to me: The Escape is far more upright. The windshield and rear glass have much less rake. It is far more slab-sided. If the Escape were in the same boat as the Explorer was I would agree with you. Escape is at the top of the sales chart. Ford doesn't really have room to gain sales, only lose them. If they're lucky they'll stay close on volume and make more on higher ATPs. There's always room to gain sales. But I think you hit the nail on the head with the ATP issue. If Ford makes more money on it (considering costs will be spread over mutiple continents now that's almost a certainty) then that's really all that matters to them. I very much doubt it is going to lose market share either. I guess we'll have to wait and see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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