JM Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 If there is a god, please Ford... 60 mpg F150 "the Hydraulic F-150 with a continuously variable transmission matches the Prius with 60mpg city rating, which works out to a 400% increase over its gasoline version. Again, according to this source, the Hydraulic F-150 is currently scheduled for launch in August of 2008." Auto Insider: 32 mpg Expedition EPA.gov Autoblog: 60 mpg F150 And please Ford be the first to market! You know Asia loves to steal patented technology! - sorry if this topic has already been posted - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igor Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 If there is a god, please Ford... 60 mpg F150 "the Hydraulic F-150 with a continuously variable transmission matches the Prius with 60mpg city rating, which works out to a 400% increase over its gasoline version. Again, according to this source, the Hydraulic F-150 is currently scheduled for launch in August of 2008." Auto Insider: 32 mpg Expedition EPA.gov Autoblog: 60 mpg F150 And please Ford be the first to market! You know Asia loves to steal patented technology! - sorry if this topic has already been posted - 2008 SuperDuty will have it as an option, we are expecting the redesigned 09 F150 to get it as well- and possibly also the Expedition.. but the improvement is not as radical..there are 2 steps to this (if I understand it correctly) a basic Hydraulic Launch assist and a more complete (full hybrid) Hydraulic hybrid system. The SD has HLA on the options list... I would assume the HHS is not ready for primetime as of yet in Ford vehicles. The HLA should still provide good improvement in mileage.. probably inthe range of 20-30% in city driving - so probably pushing the SD PS city mileage to maybe 15mpg real world - maybe little more. however a diesel-hydraulic (HLA) hybrid F150 should be able to get close to 18-20 mpg in the city, about 20 HWY... the HHS is much more advanced, because it allows powering the truck even at HWY speeds... even with that the 60mpg (I believe) is still exaggerated, but 20-30mpg combined would probably be realistic on a dieseled-HHS F150. Igor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMBoring25 Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 Sounds as though Bill's forecast was [gasp] conservative. Just a few years early. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larson Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 It's a Hydraulic Hybrid, not Hydraulic Luanch Assist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron W. Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 Is the continuously variable transmission tough enough to be used in a truck? From what i heard it's not designed for pulling stumps etc, also heard scuttlebut that Ford was dropping it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igor Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 the SD just had HLA and regular tranny.. I think the CVT is one of the reasons why Sd has HLA, not HHS. the other is the decline in HWY mileag with HHS because of its weight. the full system seem to really make sense only on commercial fleet vehicles that do operate almost exclusively in city traffic. Igor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenp77 Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 2008 SuperDuty will have it as an option, we are expecting the redesigned 09 F150 to get it as well- and possibly also the Expedition.. but the improvement is not as radical..there are 2 steps to this (if I understand it correctly) a basic Hydraulic Launch assist and a more complete (full hybrid) Hydraulic hybrid system. The SD has HLA on the options list... I would assume the HHS is not ready for primetime as of yet in Ford vehicles. The HLA should still provide good improvement in mileage.. probably inthe range of 20-30% in city driving - so probably pushing the SD PS city mileage to maybe 15mpg real world - maybe little more. however a diesel-hydraulic (HLA) hybrid F150 should be able to get close to 18-20 mpg in the city, about 20 HWY... the HHS is much more advanced, because it allows powering the truck even at HWY speeds... even with that the 60mpg (I believe) is still exaggerated, but 20-30mpg combined would probably be realistic on a dieseled-HHS F150. Igor Igor: Will this set up be rated to pull any weight at all???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igor Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 Igor: Will this set up be rated to pull any weight at all???? the short answer is this setup will create immense torque and gratly will help towing and hauling. Just a disclaimer I take my info from an older thread here at BOF ... and others from F150 forums - the hydraulic system itself creates enough torque to tow on its own, but it lacks any horsepower - and that is when the regular engine comes in... the resulting numbers are so great, Ford could downsize the engine, and still keep great topwing / hauling numbers - the truck would simply be a little sluggish on the HWY - but ford is not doing that (unless I missed something) overall the 60mpg estimate was a combination of many "possible" things - it is city HWY, it is ful HHS, it is with a diesel engine, and it is with a small economical diesel engine that by itself would get close to 25mpg... Igor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ford-boy Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 These are some sites I have found. http://www.parker.com/Products/Interactive/RunWise/ http://www.pressroom.ups.com/global/frontpage http://fluid.power.net/fpn/docs/news/permo...drive_news.html This is such exciting technology that I can hardly contain myself. It has ENORMOUS potential if used in a from the ground up design. On EPA site, 80-86 mpg was observed in a 3800 lb. family sedan chassis. Ford is definitly on the inside track with this as it was one of the 3-4 major investment partners. According to the EPA, a 6900 lb. F-150 (towing ) was tested to have 28 mpg overall mileage. If the parallel hybrid is used with a very small clean diesel, these numbers are easy to get. I have tried to get info from a variety of sources and no-one is talking. Parker-Hannifin has already announced it will have HH on AUTOCAR garbage trucks this fall (2006). Eaton was very tight lipped about any sort of timeframe or performance numbers. Its not a stretch to imagine a small engine powered by E85 and HH system for a Fusion sized car getting outstanding mileage. For such a promising technology, I am surprised to find very little media interest. It is never included in articles I've raed in my local papers. Its always- gas/electric or plug-ins or E85 or other alternative fuels. But no mention of HH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenp77 Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 the short answer is this setup will create immense torque and gratly will help towing and hauling. Just a disclaimer I take my info from an older thread here at BOF ... and others from F150 forums - the hydraulic system itself creates enough torque to tow on its own, but it lacks any horsepower - and that is when the regular engine comes in... the resulting numbers are so great, Ford could downsize the engine, and still keep great topwing / hauling numbers - the truck would simply be a little sluggish on the HWY - but ford is not doing that (unless I missed something) overall the 60mpg estimate was a combination of many "possible" things - it is city HWY, it is ful HHS, it is with a diesel engine, and it is with a small economical diesel engine that by itself would get close to 25mpg... Igor Thanx Igor will keep on reading very interesting I would settle for a good diesel in a f-150 that would break 20mpg and could tow :happy feet: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 (edited) One of the reasons for delay in implementing this [fully hydraulic hybrid] is simply the number of new parts that need to be engineered and tested and manufactured and assembled, and then tested some more. It's one thing to build a skunkworks Expedition with a hydraulic hybrid system (and get 40mpg) like the EPA did. It's something else entirely to manufacture and service hundreds of thousands of these a year. Just ask Toyota. It took them five or six years to get to a point where they could manufacture hybrids in any volume at all. ... Edited July 3, 2006 by RichardJensen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old_fairmont_wagon Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 What ever happened to the Torotrac ® IVT (Infinitely Variable Transmission)? Supposedly, Ford was an investor, and it was showing some very good durability numbers in work trucks in europe. Is it still around? Has development gone any further? I know its main desirable factor over a "traditional" CVT was that it had much more torque capacity in a similar size and material/part count system. I believe that it also had a better ratio range and was quicker to respond to load/throttle changes (less rubber band feel). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ford-boy Posted July 4, 2006 Share Posted July 4, 2006 The Hydraulic Hybrid is gaining significant support. When tested against other hybrid systems, HH comes out well ahead. Check out this site from the Hybrid Truck Users Forum H-TUF http://www.calstart.org/programs/htuf/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebritt Posted July 4, 2006 Share Posted July 4, 2006 Huge mileage from a big truck? Exxon will pay Bill Jr. big bucks to bury it and the engineers bodies will never be found. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted July 5, 2006 Share Posted July 5, 2006 Huge mileage from a big truck? Exxon will pay Bill Jr. big bucks to bury it and the engineers bodies will never be found. No I dont think so...people will buy more and use more gas. Its the chicken and the egg thing...for example, back in the 1990's, gas was really cheap and people bought SUVs/Trucks, today at 3 bucks a gallon people are moving to more effencent vechicles that use less gas (I hope), thus the demand for gas will go down (well hopefully once again) and the price will adjust accordingly. If gas/oil stay too high for too long, people will look at altenatives to it and if they move to it, the oil industry will take a hurting. One of the major reasons gas got so cheap in the late 1990's was the ecomonic crisis in the far east that derailed the stupid growth going on there. Hmmm maybe that needs to happen again :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebritt Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 No I dont think so...people will buy more and use more gas. Its the chicken and the egg thing...for example, back in the 1990's, gas was really cheap and people bought SUVs/Trucks, today at 3 bucks a gallon people are moving to more effencent vechicles that use less gas (I hope), thus the demand for gas will go down (well hopefully once again) and the price will adjust accordingly. If gas/oil stay too high for too long, people will look at altenatives to it and if they move to it, the oil industry will take a hurting. One of the major reasons gas got so cheap in the late 1990's was the ecomonic crisis in the far east that derailed the stupid growth going on there. Hmmm maybe that needs to happen again :P I dont think so. There are still a lot of big guzzlers out ther on the road just gulping down the fuel. Only recently have people started buying the small cars. Why do you think the big 3 and even the imports are putting so much into big, heavy vehicles? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSenstad Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 Would it be a bad thing for Ford to announce it's own HH or HLA units coming out next spring on a limited lease option? The owner would not be stuck with a vehicle, in order to get it they would have to realize it was a trial vehicle, UPS will have beaten they out with their trucks, and I would say those trucks probably will put on more miles in a day than most of the HD's do in a week or longer thus letting Ford fine tune and the press release would be out of this world? I don't think we can sell them yet but a lease would allow the person to walk away if they don't like it. In the meantime they get real would feedback. Any thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igor Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 (edited) Would it be a bad thing for Ford to announce it's own HH or HLA units coming out next spring on a limited lease option? The owner would not be stuck with a vehicle, in order to get it they would have to realize it was a trial vehicle, UPS will have beaten they out with their trucks, and I would say those trucks probably will put on more miles in a day than most of the HD's do in a week or longer thus letting Ford fine tune and the press release would be out of this world? I don't think we can sell them yet but a lease would allow the person to walk away if they don't like it. In the meantime they get real would feedback. Any thoughts? the reason UPS can use them is that theyare completely CITY driven - UPS could not care less about highway performance of mileage on their delivery trucks .... Ford has a differnet market ... Moreover, UPS rolled them out only in Detroit area - making it a pilot market - and I am sure they are ready for maintenance nighmares and have plenty of engineers on call.. However Ford (if they are smart) can lear a lot from UPS, because of the amout of miles those trucks put on... plus the UPS truck bottoms are made by Ford ... so technically Ford is already building Hydraulic Hybrids. but you are right - a limited lease would allow Ford to invite experimental customers, with the safety of walking away if the system does not work . Igor Edited July 25, 2006 by igor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sixcav Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 the reason UPS can use them is that theyare completely CITY driven Really, how about all those folks in the countryside or small towns that order stuff and have it delievered via UPS, what do they use there, helicopters? lol On the whole I agree with you, the majority of UPS trucks are driven in city environments, to be sure. But not completely. UPS still has to deliever to all the out lying areas where people order stuff via the internet or mail order or what have you. Thats roughly half the population of the country by the way so no small task. But still I think this technology would really help UPS and FedEx, they should look into it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluecon Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 Really, how about all those folks in the countryside or small towns that order stuff and have it delievered via UPS, what do they use there, helicopters? lol On the whole I agree with you, the majority of UPS trucks are driven in city environments, to be sure. But not completely. UPS still has to deliever to all the out lying areas where people order stuff via the internet or mail order or what have you. Thats roughly half the population of the country by the way so no small task. But still I think this technology would really help UPS and FedEx, they should look into it. Maybe they could drive the HH vehicles in the city and use regular diesel trucks on the highway routes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMBoring25 Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 Maybe they could drive the HH vehicles in the city and use regular diesel trucks on the highway routes. I'll bet you're right... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSenstad Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 Maybe they could drive the HH vehicles in the city and use regular diesel trucks on the highway routes. They will need to do both in order to have a fair test to base future decisions on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DearbornDerek Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 Maybe they could drive the HH vehicles in the city and use regular diesel trucks on the highway routes. ...or just make the HH vehicles WITH a diesel engine. Boom, the best of both worlds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcopin Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 If there is a god, please Ford... 60 mpg F150 "the Hydraulic F-150 with a continuously variable transmission matches the Prius with 60mpg city rating, which works out to a 400% increase over its gasoline version. Again, according to this source, the Hydraulic F-150 is currently scheduled for launch in August of 2008." Auto Insider: 32 mpg Expedition EPA.gov Autoblog: 60 mpg F150 And please Ford be the first to market! You know Asia loves to steal patented technology! - sorry if this topic has already been posted - thats because asian companies dont have a original thought in their fuckin heads Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSenstad Posted July 27, 2006 Share Posted July 27, 2006 ...or just make the HH vehicles WITH a diesel engine. Boom, the best of both worlds. That is kind of what I was implying as I think that was how they got to 60 mpg with the F-150. Sorry if I didn't make that clear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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