mackinaw Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 From today's Automotive News: "DETROIT -- Ford Motor Co. is considering using seven- or eight-speed transmissions on future vehicles if there is a tangible fuel economy benefit, a senior engineer said. “We are looking at the benefits of seven, eight or even more speeds for transmissions. And maybe at some point in the future, when we see the benefit is there, you might see us do something,” Paul Mascarenas, Ford’s vice president of research and advanced engineering, said on the sidelines of the SAE 2011 World Congress. "Mascarenas said Ford has no specific plans to go beyond a six-speed transmission, which it is launching on the 2012 Ford Focus compact. That transmission will be on most Ford Motor vehicles going forward. “There’s clearly been a lot of announcements and developments in terms of multispeed transmissions,” Mascarenas said. “We’re very heavily invested in the six-speed transmission. We’re still launching that.” Full article here: http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20110418/OEM01/110419908/1424 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papilgee4evaeva Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 Good to see they won't succumb to the "mine is bigger than yours" mentality if the returns aren't worth the trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 I think Ford is more advanced with with fuel efficient engine strategies like Ecoboost, more low down torque with smaller engines negates the need for more gears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_webers_inc Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 Having driven various new Ford Vehicles from the last couple of years equipped with 6 speed automatics, I'd have to say that Ford is doing great with 6 forward gear ratios. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captainp4 Posted April 24, 2011 Share Posted April 24, 2011 I think Ford is more advanced with with fuel efficient engine strategies like Ecoboost, more low down torque with smaller engines negates the need for more gears. My thoughts as well. Every time I get on the highway in my 6.0 PSD I'm wishing I had another OD for above 70 mph, if I did I'd have 6 gears and a perfect transmission IMO. Other than that, the gear spacing and tow/haul mode is perfect! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT-Keith Posted April 24, 2011 Share Posted April 24, 2011 In my opinion Ford needs to employ as many of the fuel miser features as possible: 8 ratios, direct inject, cam timing, weight savings, hybrid power-train, cylinder deactivation, etc. But of course, I'm just an arm-chair critic that knows nothing about management, production, research, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted April 24, 2011 Share Posted April 24, 2011 (edited) In my opinion Ford needs to employ as many of the fuel miser features as possible: 8 ratios, direct inject, cam timing, weight savings, hybrid power-train, cylinder deactivation, etc. But of course, I'm just an arm-chair critic that knows nothing about management, production, research, etc. I agree GT-Keith but you can see how the Ford plan begins unfolding: 1) Existing vehicles use improved power trains and transmissions 2) reduction of weight in newer platforms 3) continued use of hybrids and progressive electrification of conventional vehicles. It's a slow steady march that has to be done in unison with buyer expectation and government rules, early or premature adoption of technology will only result in added vehicles expense with probably very little uptick in buyer appreciation of the effort and expense involved (Volt). Edited April 24, 2011 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackinaw Posted April 25, 2011 Author Share Posted April 25, 2011 It's a slow steady march that has to be done in unison with buyer expectation and government rules,early or premature adoption of technology will only result in added vehicles expense with probably very little uptick in buyer appreciation of the effort and expense involved (Volt). Will you be saying the same thing about the plug-in hybrid Electric Focus when it appears next year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captainp4 Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 I don't believe the electric focus is going to cost anywhere near what the Volt is going to cost, though I could be mistaken.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullynd Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 Is it going to be Powershift everywhere? Dry clutch, wet clutch, both? Will Ford develop their own DCT? Will transmissions with higher gearing be still be DCT? I wonder what the consensus at Ford is on the JV with GM for transmissions - Ford seems to have reaped rewards from it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 Is it going to be Powershift everywhere? Dry clutch, wet clutch, both? Will Ford develop their own DCT? Will transmissions with higher gearing be still be DCT? I wonder what the consensus at Ford is on the JV with GM for transmissions - Ford seems to have reaped rewards from it. 2.0 EB Mondeo has wet clutch powershift borrowed from the diesel set up and reconfigured. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 (edited) Will you be saying the same thing about the plug-in hybrid Electric Focus when it appears next year? No, because Ford is not an early adopter of PIH technology, they waited until the technology matured enough to be economically viable, GM with their extended range EV did not..... GM now risks being over run by other manufacturers who will have alternatives to the Volt that live up to customer expectations of great fuel economy with out needing the supreme edge of the expensive Volt. Edited April 25, 2011 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 I wonder what the consensus at Ford is on the JV with GM for transmissions - Ford seems to have reaped rewards from it. I've heard mixed things about the 6-speed JV with GM..but Ford's overall implementation of it is better. Oddly enough, its not being used with the 3.5L V6 IIRC in the Fusion or some other products...its an Asian unit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 its an Asian unit. Technically yes - but I think you meant Aisin - the manufacturer's name. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 I've heard mixed things about the 6-speed JV with GM..but Ford's overall implementation of it is better. Oddly enough, its not being used with the 3.5L V6 IIRC in the Fusion or some other products...its an Asian unit. well that explains the lack of Fusion Sports around...radio-active Transmissions....lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2b2 Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 (edited) Will you be saying the same thing about the plug-in hybrid Electric Focus when it appears next year? do you mean the Focus Electric (BEV)? or C-Max Energi plug-in-hybrid? Unfortunately imho, the Focus itself is not getting any hybrid model (tho I'm still hoping the Lincoln MKE will!) Edited April 25, 2011 by 2b2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blksn8k2 Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 Maybe we can start a conspiracy theory about the Volt. Let's see, GM is government owned, sort of, they just released the Volt and gas prices here just topped $4.15/gal. Hmmmm? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aneekr Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 (edited) Having driven various new Ford Vehicles from the last couple of years equipped with 6 speed automatics, I'd have to say that Ford is doing great with 6 forward gear ratios. Have your experiences encompassed both front wheel drive and rear wheel drive Ford vehicles with 6 speed ATs? Also, curious if you have driven both vehicles with Ford designed transmissions like the 6F and 6R as well as those from other suppliers like Aisin AW? Thanks! Edited April 28, 2011 by aneekr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
92merc Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 I have a 2007 Montego that has the Aisin 6 speed in it. Outside of a little lazy 3-4 shift, It works pretty well. My office has a fleet of 2010+ Fusions. Some are I4, some V6. I've driven both. I'd say the Fusion's shifting is smoother. However, I have heard of some of the Escapes with the Ford 6sp having issues. So it isn't a "perfect" transmission. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 However, I have heard of some of the Escapes with the Ford 6sp having issues. So it isn't a "perfect" transmission. There was a recall on it..the GF 2010 Escape has been flawless with 43K on it..My sister's 2010 Escape had some sort of issue with it and there is a 4 week wait for the parts on it. Not sure if its the transmission or what...it was driveline related. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 Good to see they won't succumb to the "mine is bigger than yours" mentality if the returns aren't worth the trouble. And that is the key to this discussion ! Adding more ratios increases cost and weight. It also decreases customer satisfaction (transmission is "busy" upshifting/downshifting). Those statements are from a retired Ford transmission Technical Specialist with over 30 years of design experience including multiple experimental transmission. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 My thoughts as well. Every time I get on the highway in my 6.0 PSD I'm wishing I had another OD for above 70 mph, if I did I'd have 6 gears and a perfect transmission IMO. Other than that, the gear spacing and tow/haul mode is perfect! Most F-Series, including Super Duty, now have 6 speed transmission. Those that don't, will, within a couple of years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 Technically yes - but I think you meant Aisin - the manufacturer's name. The Aisin (sometimes called A6F35 internally) I believe IS made in Asia ! I have been told that the reason Ford is still using the Aisin transmission was due to volume commitments in the original contract they signed. So many units over so many years. I expect it to be phased out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 Is it going to be Powershift everywhere? Dry clutch, wet clutch, both? Not likely. Torque converters are great for getting heavy loads rolling. With a lockup clutch there is no loss. For a DCT to achieve the same torque at 0 mph as a 6 speed with a torque converter and the same over all final ration, would take 8 - 10 gear ratios. Do-able, but probably not cost effective. Will Ford develop their own DCT? At this point, I would say it is unlikely. While the design is clearly Getrag, Ford did an enormous amount of development work. Ford is also doing the "lions share" of the software (Luk is providing the clutch lining and doing the clutch software). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captainp4 Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 Most F-Series, including Super Duty, now have 6 speed transmission. Those that don't, will, within a couple of years. I believe they all do as of the '11 superduty. (the 6.7 scorpion is the '11 model, right? Did the 6.4 still have teh 5r110e or did it go to the 6 spd then?) Though, I guess the larger trucks that are still using the v10 have the 5r110e still. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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