Jump to content

Ford holds tight to police market


Recommended Posts

Dude. That's because they're IMPALAS. The W-body is about as durable as a foil cake pan.

 

When the whole dang car is falling apart after 50k miles of severe service, what does it matter if it's FWD (Impala) or RWD (Charger)?

 

Got news for you, they all fall apart around here at 50,000 miles!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 70
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

L.A.P.D. currently currently uses Crown Vics ONLY for regular enforcement duty. Other cars are purchased for administrative tasks. 9C1 Tahoes are purchased for special assignments and are not to be used for pursuit. I don't know what they are testing at the moment. I can't speak for N.Y.P.D.. If you are talking about heavily congested inner city work like N.Y.P.D. is confronted with, the type of car is less critical. They just need something to get them to the scene of the crime! In Los Angeles, it seems that a significant number of perps try their luck in a high speed chase, so they type of car becomes more of an issue. Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department is currently Crown Vic only as well. They have tested the Charger, but felt the Hemi version was actually a bit too fast! Visibility is also an issue with the Charger. An FWD car will not meet enforcement specifications for that agency, though like L.A.P.D. some Impalas are purchased for administration and process servers.

 

How will the new PI not meet specifications when it was built to meet or exceed them???

Link to comment
Share on other sites

How will the new PI not meet specifications when it was built to meet or exceed them???

 

Many agencies will not accept FWD squads. Departments will buy whatever they want, for whatever reason they deem valid. L.A. Sheriff's wrote in a rule against torsion bar front suspension in squads after they had all those problems with the Dodge Diplomats in the early 80's.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Many agencies will not accept FWD squads. Departments will buy whatever they want, for whatever reason they deem valid. L.A. Sheriff's wrote in a rule against torsion bar front suspension in squads after they had all those problems with the Dodge Diplomats in the early 80's.

 

Well times change and things improve greatly. The CVPI is gone irregardless so agencies are going to have to find something new.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It is interesting that Ford is not calling this car a Taurus. I wouldn't be surprised if it had to do with the last Taurus police car's significantly less than stellar record.......

 

 

No its about protecting the Retail Image of the Taurus and not impacting its resale value

 

Many agencies will not accept FWD squads.

 

But its also all about the $$$...lets see new PI takes our older CVPI equipment with little modification or do we blow $$$ on a untested Caprice and all new equipment? At least you have some extra $$$ to fix the new Ford PI if there is an issue ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

L.A.P.D. currently currently uses Crown Vics ONLY for regular enforcement duty. Other cars are purchased for administrative tasks.

 

So you're saying that MAJOR police departments DO buy many different types of cars.

 

Okay, just so we're clear on that. Because earlier, you know, you said something different.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Got news for you, they all fall apart around here at 50,000 miles!

Right. All cars FWD cars are equally well built and all RWD cars are equally well built and equally more durable than FWD cars.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if it had to do with the last Taurus police car's significantly less than stellar record.......

 

Good GOD man, what CENTURY are you living in?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well times change and things improve greatly. The CVPI is gone irregardless so agencies are going to have to find something new.

 

And there certainly is truth to that. I think the new Ford P.I.'s chances would be much better if there were no RWD alternatives. In talking to those I know 'still in the biz', so to speak, there is a lot more interest in the new Caprice than there is in the Ford P.I.. Time will tell.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So you're saying that MAJOR police departments DO buy many different types of cars.

 

Okay, just so we're clear on that. Because earlier, you know, you said something different.

 

If you look back to my earlier post, I said 'enforcement' fleet. By that I ment cars specifically procured for patrol and pursuit work. Naturally a medium or large sized agency will have a number of different vehicles for a multitude of tasks. I would hope you wouldn't need municipal fleet experience to realize that. I assume Ford is marketing the P.I. to be a patrol car, not a car suitable for administrative tasks only. Then again........

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Times are getting tough & austere in the UK with sky high fuel prices, so the British Police are now using zero emissions RWD pedal cars to beat crime, cut costs & reverse global warming.

 

article-0-09A77597000005DC-783_634x413.jpg

 

 

article-0-09A742C1000005DC-950_634x425.jpg

 

 

 

New zero emission UK police cars to be used in the fight against crime, as the new UK government budget cuts kick in.

LINK

Link to comment
Share on other sites

LOL! That's funny Jelly.

 

I think I wrote this a couple weeks ago when the fur was flying here, can't remember. Anyway, the chargers are here....and the cops won't sign for them. That was as I said a few weeks ago when they were trying to decide whether to buy the silent partners and stuff for them or just make them staff cars. The cops are keeping the CV (as are the city police and RCMP here) and the meatheads are just copying the real cops. (did I say that out loud? LOL)

 

Anyway, some of the cops drove the chargers and gave it a thumbs down. They are bought, they're your's, TAKE THEM! But they are saying "uh yeah we'll be over next week, this is going on this week" and the following week the same excuse with a new "priority" that precludes them from the handover.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On this topic, so far this year I have seen one local PD purchasing Expeditions as their mainline vehicle. Right now they are about 1/3 Expedition 2/3 CV. Expeditions are in everyday patrol duty. Several other PDs are taking delivery of 2010 Explorers and putting them in service as regular patrol vehicles in place of the CV. Any one else seing this happen? These are sububan and semi rural areas. One local county Sheriffs Dept has been all Impalas for about 7 or 8 years now, and another is still CVs, do not know what they will be going to, as they run their vehicles until they fall apart.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It will be interesting to see how this plays out. I know the Local PD's here are absolulty dead set against FWD front line patrol cars. After 25 years of getting nothing but horrible service out of any FWD patrol car the cards are really stacked against FWD for front line service, after the Chev Celeberty , Taurus, and Impala patrol units they will not use any FWD for front line patrol work period. The EPS uses nothing but CV's for front line patrol work and that makes up 87% of the entire fleet. (They tested the Chargers and the Magnums and did not like the handeling so none were bought)

 

But the AWD Taurus offers an interesting option. But again I think that the fear of higher mait costs will be an issue.

The new PI Taurus has an uphill battle with most PD's to prove it's worth. Lets hope it is up to the task and the only thing that will prove if it is, is time on the road.

The 2WD Chev Tahoe is gaining more and more sales for PD's. It is not with out it's problems but they are seeing longer time in service before retirement most of the CV's are are retired at 160K km (100,000 Miles) while the Tahoes are being retired around 240-260K Km (144,000-156,000 Miles) Plus they are getting better transaction prices (3 to 4 times as much as the vic's) at time of disposal. But they are a large vehicle and not really suited to urban applications.

 

Any way you cut it the new PI Taurus has it's work cut out. It is not just going to have be as good as the new Caprice but better to change the long standing perceptions about FWD cruisers.

 

Personally I think Ford should not even offered this vehicle in FWD. It should have been AWD only and made up for the additional cost with the added volume having them only avalible in AWD. AWD avalibilty only would quell the FWD handeling fear a lot of Dept's have. In most area's the PD's will not get the option of being able to order the AWD version as it will be seen as an unesssary added expance by the municipal bean counters. So the FWD option for PI units should have beeen taken right off the table.

The AWD PI Taurus will out handle the old CV on all road surfaces in all road condtions. Ford being able to say that would be a big bonus. But as long as their is a base FWD version that is what most PD"s will be saddled with and the cry of poor handling will will tarnish the reputation before it has a chance to prove it's self. And lets face it FWD sucks when it comes to the envelope of handleing and that enveplope is much smaller than RWD and hugly smaller than AWD on slick and loose surfaces.

 

I think the only error Ford made with what they had with the PI Taurus was not making AWD standard. That is what they should have done and offered an option delete for non Front line applications.

 

Matthew

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you look back to my earlier post, I said 'enforcement' fleet. By that I ment cars specifically procured for patrol and pursuit work. Naturally a medium or large sized agency will have a number of different vehicles for a multitude of tasks. I would hope you wouldn't need municipal fleet experience to realize that. I assume Ford is marketing the P.I. to be a patrol car, not a car suitable for administrative tasks only. Then again........

That LAPD Impala had push bars on it. You think want me to believe it was a detective or a sergeant's car? That was a patrol car.

 

And the two uniformed cops in the NYPD Impalas I've seen---they're doing administrative work, right?

 

The Taurus FWD is a better patrol car than the Impala and V6 Caprice, and the Taurus AWD is a better pursuit car than the CV and the V6 Caprice, and the EB equipped Taurus is a better patrol and pursuit car than the V8 Caprice.

 

It's only when you compare across usages that you find differences to complain about. If you compare these things by use, it's pretty hard to find a flaw with the Taurus outside of the AWD powertrain.

 

This noise about FWD -- it's FUD.

Edited by RichardJensen
Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='RichardJensen' date='20 May 2010 - 10:13 PM' timestamp='1274415216' post='615924'

 

This noise about FWD -- it's FUD.

 

We got this same type of comment and same hype about the last PI Taurus and the last PI Impala. It is much better to take a wait and see attitude on this one. NO FWD PI unit used in service service to DATE has been hugely sucsessfull. That is not to say the Current PI Taurus will not be but there is a near 30 year track record to disprove. If the PI Taurus was using a proper A arm front suspension I may be inclinced to agree with you. But it is not bringing that to the table. I'm sure the FWD Taurus will fair better than previuos FWD's in terms of durability but the big question is how much better. It is not like the current suspention design under the Taurus is bullet proof cause it is not. And Severe Service applications (especally PI applications) can really magnify the smallest short comming.

 

Lets wait and see if Ford got this right. They have not been missing the mark much of late but it has been 20 years since Ford built a new SS application Sedan. The last one was the PI Taurus and we all know how wel that worked out. All they have done in the interm is upgrade an already bullet proof platform. Yes they have the benchmark to go by as they did last time. But all the testing in the world is not the same as actual road miles.

 

Matthew

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That LAPD Impala had push bars on it. You think want me to believe it was a detective or a sergeant's car? That was a patrol car./quote]

 

I live in L.A., and I went to high school and college with one of their fleet guys! NO Impalas are used for regular patrol work. Period. With the demise of the Crown Vic., they are looking at options. Last I heard, it was doubtful the Impala would be considered because it is FWD. Read the whole thread on the Flicker page. I have seen some of the Chargers being tested. In any event, L.A.'s budget problems will probably curtail any police car purchases for some time.

Edited by 7Mary3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I guess the bottom line is that I am quite disappointed Ford didn't import one of their wonderful RWD Austrailian products to be the next police car. I have a bit of a passion for police cars as you can tell, and I don't believe any currently available FWD sedan will make an acceptable Shop. That having been said, I really can understand why Ford is not putting much effort into replacing the Crown Vic P.I.. As I have said before, we are talking low margin fleet sales. Dodge can offer an 'acceptable' RWD car in the Charger, as it is based on a retail car. My understanding is G.M. can import cars from Australia at a favorable price because it allows them to offset import duties on parts exported from the U.S. to Australia (can anyone elaborate on that?). Anyway, I think the Taurus would have a better chance if it wasn't for RWD alternatives. Maybe Ford was betting that Chrysler wouldn't be around and G.M. wouldn't bother........

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My understanding is G.M. can import cars from Australia at a favorable price because it allows them to offset import duties on parts exported from the U.S. to Australia (can anyone elaborate on that?).

 

This is my guess, and it may or may not be correct.

 

But GMNA had a deal with Holden to build X LHD versions of the Commodore for export to N. America as the Pontiac G8. Since Pontiac was retired as a marque, and the G8 killed, but the contract had to be fulfilled, someone in the RenCen got the great idea to instead import the Statesman (stretched Commodore) in order to fill the allocation.

 

Like I said, just my guess. Someone can correct me if they can and want to.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I guess the bottom line is that I am quite disappointed Ford didn't import one of their wonderful RWD Austrailian products to be the next police car.

 

I wouldn't assume that a company that got bailed out to the tune of $50 BILLION is capable of making better decisions than a company that didn't.

 

If Ford ain't importing the Falcon for police duty, they've got a good reason not to.

 

It's not like Ford execs are sitting in the board room saying, "Nope, nope, nope, it'll never work. Nope, nope, nope. We tried it once twenty years ago it failed. We're never going to make that mistake again. Nope, nope, nope."

 

That's the kind of talk you get -around here-.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

NO Impalas are used for regular patrol work.

Which means they're not buying Impalas, right?

 

If Ford's got a better package than the Impala, then why shouldn't they sell it?

Last I heard, it was doubtful the Impala would be considered because it is FWD.

More likely that it's doubtful because GM is finally retiring that flimsy rattletrap.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That LAPD Impala had push bars on it. You think want me to believe it was a detective or a sergeant's car? That was a patrol car./quote]

 

I live in L.A., and I went to high school and college with one of their fleet guys! NO Impalas are used for regular patrol work. Period. With the demise of the Crown Vic., they are looking at options. Last I heard, it was doubtful the Impala would be considered because it is FWD. Read the whole thread on the Flicker page. I have seen some of the Chargers being tested. In any event, L.A.'s budget problems will probably curtail any police car purchases for some time.

funnily enough LAPD and the LA Sherrifs dept were hands on in the development of the Taurus Interceptor.....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wouldn't assume that a company that got bailed out to the tune of $50 BILLION is capable of making better decisions than a company that didn't................

 

As I pointed out, I believe there is a favorable business situation for GM when it comes to importing vehicles from Australia. It is possible that a similar situation does not exist for Ford.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

.......More likely that it's doubtful because GM is finally retiring that flimsy rattletrap.

 

No, I don't think the Chevy W car is scheduled for retirement anytime soon, though I suppose it is possible the 9C1 version may be dropped when the Caprice is introduced. I have fleet experience (not law enforcement) with the Impalas, and they are actually a pretty decent car with repair and fuel costs below average. Total cost-of-ownership is only fair due to low resale. So many of them end up in fleets and daily rentals.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No, I don't think the Chevy W car is scheduled for retirement anytime soon

Impala is going Epsilon II in a year or so.

 

And the Impala may be -reliable (electrics & powertrain)- but that doesn't mean that it's built well. Compare the fit and finish of a 10 year old Taurus/Sable to a 10 year old Impala, and let me know what you think.

 

The W-Body-----the best that can be said about it is that it was better than the A-Body.

Edited by RichardJensen
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...