6.7L Scorpion diesel bellhousing flange?

[silvrsvt]

When the price of a gallon of diesel gets back to where it belongs (less than the price of a gallon of gasoline) I hope Ford can quickly install diesels in much of their product line.

 

Most people have negative connotations of a what Diesel engine is and well I don't see many people ponying up an extra $4K or so for a Diesel engine unless Diesel fuel becomes MUCH cheaper then Regular Gas.

 

As for the Hybrid argument (they cost roughy the same as a Diesel engine would) seems to be that the demand for them isn't really there either...there is a market, but I don't think we'll see a car selling in the same numbers as a Focus or gas power Fusion does.

[RichardJensen]

When the price of a gallon of diesel gets back to where it belongs (less than the price of a gallon of gasoline)

 

Right.

 

There's no more a place where the price of diesel 'belongs' than there is a place where the price of milk, cheese, bread, or kumquats 'belongs.'

 

And as long as diesel has to compete with other heavy refinery products (this time of year home heating oil is the biggie, in the summer it's jet fuel), it will be supply constrained in a way gasoline is not.

Edited January 5, 2010 by RichardJensen

[Bob Rosadini]

 

Right.

 

There's no more a place where the price of diesel 'belongs' than there is a place where the price of milk, cheese, bread, or kumquats 'belongs.'

 

And as long as diesel has to compete with other heavy refinery products (this time of year home heating oil is the biggie, in the summer it's jet fuel), it will be supply constrained in a way gasoline is not.

Right on- today much of the country is in a severe cold snap- guess what? The price of heat is almost a wash with ULSD. A couple of weeks ago it was probably a nickel under ULSD.

 

t

They are commodities and as such it doesn't take much to create fluctuations in the market. And here in the Northeast, two significant refineries were closed last month- why? Basically they can't compete with most of the big refineries and are constrained by the kind of crude they were built to process- its not a simple business.

[RichardJensen]

BTW: Whatever happened to the campaign promises about curbing commodity speculation?

 

What irks me is when a bunch of speculators throw money into what would otherwise be a short term price spike.

[lfeg]

BTW: Whatever happened to the campaign promises about curbing commodity speculation?

What irks me is when a bunch of speculators throw money into what would otherwise be a short term price spike.

 

The speculators made large campaign contributions to the winning side. The promises were just a smokescreen to cover them up.

[theoldwizard]

And as long as diesel has to compete with other heavy refinery products (this time of year home heating oil is the biggie, in the summer it's jet fuel), it will be supply constrained in a way gasoline is not.

... and you missed my point that the supply is being manipulated !

 

Bottom line is, in a truly free market, diesel should sell for less than gasoline, even after the ULSD requirements. Heating oil did not affect the price of diesel this summer/fall.

[silvrsvt]

... and you missed my point that the supply is being manipulated !

 

Bottom line is, in a truly free market, diesel should sell for less than gasoline, even after the ULSD requirements. Heating oil did not affect the price of diesel this summer/fall.

 

 

Um because it takes more crude to make more diesel? I know this is adjustable to a point but seems like Gasoline is at a 2:1 ratio to Diesel per barrel.

[RichardJensen]

... and you missed my point that the supply is being manipulated !

 

Bottom line is, in a truly free market, diesel should sell for less than gasoline, even after the ULSD requirements. Heating oil did not affect the price of diesel this summer/fall.

:rolleyes:

 

Of course the supply is being manipulated. In a free market refiners can maximize their profits by the choice of distillation product.

 

In a non-free market, where the government dictated production to the refiners, diesel might be cheaper, but such an outcome is so far outside the realms of possibility that it doesn't deserve any further consideration.

[RichardJensen]

BTW: the real manipulation is taking place on the futures markets, not in the production and distribution of actual supplies.

[old_fairmont_wagon]

And, lets also not forget that the exchange value of the dollar also affects the price of crude as well. As the value of the dollar goes down, the price per barrel of oil will rise. Oil is a globally traded comodity, so, you have to pay for it through what the value of your currency distorts its apparent "value" to be. this is the danger of a US recession and the collapse of our monetary system, if the value of the dollar plummets on the global market, stuff like oil and steel and other raw materials will suddenly become MUCH more expensive.

[lfeg]

With regard to diesel prices, keep this in mind - There are "x" BTUs in a barrel of crude, a gallon of average gasoline contains "y" BTUs, and a gallon of diesel contains approximately "1.2y" BTUs. No matter how you crack the crude and reform it, you can never get more BTU from the crude than is there to begin with, so it stands to reason that diesel just might be a higher cost fuel. And it is not a leftover! If it was, you would probably get less per barrel than we are getting now. It is a highly refined product.

[RichardJensen]

What is curious about that is that the difference in BTUs per gallon is, thanks to present emissions standards and technology (stateside), about equal to the difference in fuel efficiency.

 

In short, the combustion process is no more efficient (factoring in emissions standards), but diesel provides more miles per gallon because it has more energy per gallon.

 

In fact, in some poorly optimized engines, diesel combustion might be less efficient than otto cycle combustion.

 

Diesel requires less energy to refine and pollutes less during refinement. However, not so much less that it justifies major concessions on tailpipe emissions.

Edited January 6, 2010 by RichardJensen

[lfeg]

What is curious about that is that the difference in BTUs per gallon is, thanks to present emissions standards and technology (stateside), about equal to the difference in fuel efficiency.

 

In short, the combustion process is no more efficient (factoring in emissions standards), but diesel provides more miles per gallon because it has more energy per gallon.

 

In fact, in some poorly optimized engines, diesel combustion might be less efficient than otto cycle combustion.

 

Diesel requires less energy to refine and pollutes less during refinement. However, not so much less that it justifies major concessions on tailpipe emissions.

 

 

This is true for straight distillation, but with the heavier crudes common today, cracking and reforming are still used to get the required quantities of diesel and other light distillate fuels today. Plus sulfur removal adds to the energy required.

[RichardJensen]

This is true for straight distillation, but with the heavier crudes common today, cracking and reforming are still used to get the required quantities of diesel and other light distillate fuels today. Plus sulfur removal adds to the energy required.

But aren't you still further ahead reforming a heavy crude to diesel than to gasoline--and isn't the same true of sulfur removal?

 

(know just enough about that particular industry to stick my foot in my mouth on a pretty regular basis)

[xr7g428]

hydrolyzing adds BTU content...

 

What you get from a barrel of oil is highly variable. Crude is now thought of as just a bunch of carbon and hydrogen that can be arranged into a broad array of hydrocarbons. Economics is what determines the yield. If you need more diesel, you can get there by making less gasoline.

[lfeg]

But hydrolyzing increases the energy(BTUs) put into the crude, and it is not "free", someone ends up paying for the BTUs added. It is kind of a zero sum game - total of BTUs going into the process (the crude, transporting it, energy inputs for processing, and so on) less the BTUs used or lost in processing equal the BTUs in the finished products. If a cost is assigned to each BTU, since Diesel has more BTU per gallon, it stands to reason that it might cost more - market conditions not withstanding.

 

I am not a refinery expert, I just get my information from those who design the processes and have to make sure the refineries can be profitible

[MGolden]

Back to the 6.7.... Did you guys see the video in the Superduty Forum, the power numbers were given at the San Diego Auto show as 400hp 750lb-ft. I cant believe how much power these trucks have. I need one...well maybe just want one.