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Tire Pressure Monitor Sensor Fault


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30 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   ScapeNMontey

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Posted 05 September 2009 - 03:34 PM

Just got back from a little trip (about 350-400 miles round trip) with the family to go see my grandmother. Sporadically throughout the trip the "Tire Pressure Monitor Sensor Fault" message would come up in the display and the light would flash in the dash then stay on solid. The tires don't really look low, that and I would think that the message center would say something else if the air pressure is low. I checked the air pressure at some gas station and they are around 32-35 psi.

What's weird is we just got a DVD player that straps onto the headrest for my (almost) 2 yr old son to watch his Elmo movies while we drive. Its not wireless, it simply plugs into the Aux power outlet. It does have a remote control, though. I heard on other forums that the TPMS system is wireless and transmits via radio frequency to the controller. Could there be some RF interference going on with the DVD player? Like I said the only wireless thing is the remote which we didn't really use. I checked All Data and there aren't any TSB's related to the TPMS.

Vehicle just rolled over 6000 miles. Any insight would be appreciated. Thanks.
Present
2009 Ford Escape XLT V6 6pd
2007 Mercury Montego Luxury 6spd
1976 Chevy K10 Fleetside

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1998 Chevy K1500 Ext Cab Z71
1996 Chevy Tahoe LT
2005 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo V8
2002 Chevy Camaro SS 6spd







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#2 OFFLINE   wptski

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Posted 05 September 2009 - 11:19 PM

AllDataDIY covers the '09s now? That's news to me!

They still only cover up to '08.

Edited by wptski, 06 September 2009 - 08:36 AM.

Bill

09 Ford Escape Limited, 3.0L, 4WD, AdvanceTrac

#3 OFFLINE   ScapeNMontey

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Posted 06 September 2009 - 08:48 PM

AllDataDIY covers the '09s now? That's news to me!

They still only cover up to '08.


Well not really. You can look up TSB's and just get the titles but the 09s are still not available to purchase a subscription with. Kind of annoying :banghead:
Present
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2005 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo V8
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#4 OFFLINE   wptski

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Posted 06 September 2009 - 09:58 PM

Well not really. You can look up TSB's and just get the titles but the 09s are still not available to purchase a subscription with. Kind of annoying :banghead:

I didn't know there was a way to even look at titles. I've been watching/waiting for AllDataDIY to add the '09s but they have changed their site making it harder to find anything if you ask me!!

Edited by wptski, 06 September 2009 - 09:59 PM.

Bill

09 Ford Escape Limited, 3.0L, 4WD, AdvanceTrac

#5 OFFLINE   akirby

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Posted 07 September 2009 - 10:57 AM

TSB titles are free at nhtsa.gov

#6 OFFLINE   cobrajet_carl

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Posted 08 September 2009 - 01:45 AM

Just got back from a little trip (about 350-400 miles round trip) with the family to go see my grandmother. Sporadically throughout the trip the "Tire Pressure Monitor Sensor Fault" message would come up in the display and the light would flash in the dash then stay on solid. The tires don't really look low, that and I would think that the message center would say something else if the air pressure is low. I checked the air pressure at some gas station and they are around 32-35 psi.

What's weird is we just got a DVD player that straps onto the headrest for my (almost) 2 yr old son to watch his Elmo movies while we drive. Its not wireless, it simply plugs into the Aux power outlet. It does have a remote control, though. I heard on other forums that the TPMS system is wireless and transmits via radio frequency to the controller. Could there be some RF interference going on with the DVD player? Like I said the only wireless thing is the remote which we didn't really use. I checked All Data and there aren't any TSB's related to the TPMS.

Vehicle just rolled over 6000 miles. Any insight would be appreciated. Thanks.


You probably just need to re-train the sensors. Discount tire did this for me for free but the tool to do it is <$20 and the instructions are in the shop manual.

#7 OFFLINE   atomaro

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Posted 08 September 2009 - 06:10 AM

Did you by any chance rotate the tires right before your trip?
Let me tell you what Melba Toast is packin' right here, all right. We got 4:11 Positrac outback, 750 double pumper, Edelbrock intake, bored over 30, 11 to 1 pop-up pistons, turbo-jet 390 horsepower. We're talkin' some f^ckin' muscle.

#8 OFFLINE   wptski

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Posted 08 September 2009 - 08:49 AM

TSB titles are free at nhtsa.gov

I found out several weeks ago that I had access to the TSBs themselves and didn't even know it!
Bill

09 Ford Escape Limited, 3.0L, 4WD, AdvanceTrac

#9 OFFLINE   ScapeNMontey

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Posted 08 September 2009 - 11:28 AM

Did you by any chance rotate the tires right before your trip?


I did but not right before my trip. I rotated the tires for the first time about two weeks before hand while I was changing the oil. How would that make a difference as the TPMS sensors aren't directional AFAIK..

As of today driving it to work, sans the DVD player, the light hasn't come on again. I'm making a semi-long trip to the airport this afternoon to go on buisness travel, so we'll se how it goes. If it comes on again I'll take it to the dealer.
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2007 Mercury Montego Luxury 6spd
1976 Chevy K10 Fleetside

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1998 Chevy K1500 Ext Cab Z71
1996 Chevy Tahoe LT
2005 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo V8
2002 Chevy Camaro SS 6spd

#10 OFFLINE   atomaro

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Posted 08 September 2009 - 06:11 PM

I did but not right before my trip. I rotated the tires for the first time about two weeks before hand while I was changing the oil. How would that make a difference as the TPMS sensors aren't directional AFAIK..

As of today driving it to work, sans the DVD player, the light hasn't come on again. I'm making a semi-long trip to the airport this afternoon to go on buisness travel, so we'll se how it goes. If it comes on again I'll take it to the dealer.


I am not familiar with the TPMS on the Escapes. All of the customers we have who own Escapes do not have TPMS. BUT, there are 2 basic types of TPMS. A dumb one and a smart one. The dumb one will tell you that you have a low tire...but not which tire. The smart system will tell you the pressure of each tire and which is low.
Whenever you rotate with the smart system you need to reprogram the system because the sensor is matched to the location on the vehicle. If a reprogram was not done or done incorrectly...it could be throwing you a code. IIRC some new systems are wanting you to drive a certain number of miles above a certain speed before the reset is complete.

Edited by atomaro, 08 September 2009 - 06:12 PM.

Let me tell you what Melba Toast is packin' right here, all right. We got 4:11 Positrac outback, 750 double pumper, Edelbrock intake, bored over 30, 11 to 1 pop-up pistons, turbo-jet 390 horsepower. We're talkin' some f^ckin' muscle.

#11 OFFLINE   cobrajet_carl

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Posted 09 September 2009 - 08:57 PM

I am not familiar with the TPMS on the Escapes. All of the customers we have who own Escapes do not have TPMS. BUT, there are 2 basic types of TPMS. A dumb one and a smart one. The dumb one will tell you that you have a low tire...but not which tire. The smart system will tell you the pressure of each tire and which is low.
Whenever you rotate with the smart system you need to reprogram the system because the sensor is matched to the location on the vehicle. If a reprogram was not done or done incorrectly...it could be throwing you a code. IIRC some new systems are wanting you to drive a certain number of miles above a certain speed before the reset is complete.


Well, I guess the Escape's TPMS is a smart one, but dumbed down for the driver. Individual tire psi are available from the SJB through the MS CAN network via a mode 0x22 PID of 0xC127 for the 06-07's. Tire rotation shouldn't affect the system. Parking right next to another system or any other RF interference can, however, cause the system to require a re-train.

Edited by cobrajet_carl, 10 September 2009 - 09:31 AM.


#12 OFFLINE   ScapeNMontey

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Posted 10 September 2009 - 08:34 PM

Well, I just got back from my buisness trip and no fault light came on the whole way up and back from the airport (about 160 miles round trip), so I'm thinking its some RF interference from the DVD player we were using on the trip, although I don't know how it would cause it.

Do remote controls transmit even if they are not being used?? The remote for the DVD system was sitting in one of the rear cup holders on the center console. What about radiated EMI from the physical player and screen? (its a self contained screen/DVD player that straps on the headrests, and a second screen is connected via wire to the "master" unit)

Thanks for the replies so far...
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2007 Mercury Montego Luxury 6spd
1976 Chevy K10 Fleetside

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1998 Chevy K1500 Ext Cab Z71
1996 Chevy Tahoe LT
2005 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo V8
2002 Chevy Camaro SS 6spd

#13 OFFLINE   vanman628

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Posted 20 September 2009 - 05:24 PM

Just got back from a little trip (about 350-400 miles round trip) with the family to go see my grandmother. Sporadically throughout the trip the "Tire Pressure Monitor Sensor Fault" message would come up in the display and the light would flash in the dash then stay on solid. The tires don't really look low, that and I would think that the message center would say something else if the air pressure is low. I checked the air pressure at some gas station and they are around 32-35 psi.

What's weird is we just got a DVD player that straps onto the headrest for my (almost) 2 yr old son to watch his Elmo movies while we drive. Its not wireless, it simply plugs into the Aux power outlet. It does have a remote control, though. I heard on other forums that the TPMS system is wireless and transmits via radio frequency to the controller. Could there be some RF interference going on with the DVD player? Like I said the only wireless thing is the remote which we didn't really use. I checked All Data and there aren't any TSB's related to the TPMS.

Vehicle just rolled over 6000 miles. Any insight would be appreciated. Thanks.

My '09 Escape (4 cyl) just rolled over 15K miles and I just started experiencing this problem 3 weeks ago. It only happens when I am driving over 40 mph or so for over 15-20 minutes. Had the dealer re-train the sensors, but problem still exists.

Does the spare have one of these (TPS) that the vehicle reads? If so. maybe they didn't re-train the spare TPS. If not that, anyone have any ideas?

vanman628
Orlando, FL

#14 OFFLINE   GaryG

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Posted 21 September 2009 - 09:16 AM

My '09 Escape (4 cyl) just rolled over 15K miles and I just started experiencing this problem 3 weeks ago. It only happens when I am driving over 40 mph or so for over 15-20 minutes. Had the dealer re-train the sensors, but problem still exists.

Does the spare have one of these (TPS) that the vehicle reads? If so. maybe they didn't re-train the spare TPS. If not that, anyone have any ideas?

vanman628
Orlando, FL


The spare does not have a sensor. I'd put 40 psi in your tires and see if the problem goes away. If not, there is a problem and I recommend taking it back to the dealer for repair. I have 50psi in my tires so you can't put to much air pressure in and get a light. The donut spares have a 60psi requirement.
'05 FWD FEH & '09 FWD FEH

#15 OFFLINE   wptski

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Posted 21 September 2009 - 12:50 PM

The spare does not have a sensor. I'd put 40 psi in your tires and see if the problem goes away. If not, there is a problem and I recommend taking it back to the dealer for repair. I have 50psi in my tires so you can't put to much air pressure in and get a light. The donut spares have a 60psi requirement.

I'm sure that 50psi is way above what's marked on your door sticker for unloaded but not sure what tires your running but that still seems a bit high! I assume your doing this just for milage sake? Doesn't it ride like a pogostick?
Bill

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#16 OFFLINE   GaryG

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Posted 21 September 2009 - 02:05 PM

I'm sure that 50psi is way above what's marked on your door sticker for unloaded but not sure what tires your running but that still seems a bit high! I assume your doing this just for milage sake? Doesn't it ride like a pogostick?


All '09 Escapes came with the Michelin LRR Latitude tires with the 16" rims and the Max sidewall is 44psi. I was against exceeding the Max sidewall pressure till I ran some coasting test and seen the results. I kept my tires on my '05 FEH from that point on at 50psi and notice better handling, far less wear, and increased MPG. I also read a report from the San Jose Police Dept. that confirmed what I was seeing and they were running 50psi in their training vehicles that had a Max 44psi sidewall. I only notice the higher pressure when I hit a bump, pothole, or something like that so I avoid those as much as possible. I have the original '05 FEH rear tires with over 60,000 miles and I replaced the fronts with the Michelins. I have one of the front tires as a spare and the other had sidewall damage from a piece of medal. My '09 FEH has a much softer ride even with 50psi but I can still feel and hear the bumps and potholes. Safety is more of a problem with under inflated tires and I feel more safe with the 50psi myself. I don't recommend exceeding Max sidewall to anyone but I just prefer the benefits of 50psi myself. I keep Max sidewall PSI in my other family vehicles for the ride.
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#17 OFFLINE   wptski

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Posted 21 September 2009 - 03:54 PM

All '09 Escapes came with the Michelin LRR Latitude tires with the 16" rims and the Max sidewall is 44psi. I was against exceeding the Max sidewall pressure till I ran some coasting test and seen the results. I kept my tires on my '05 FEH from that point on at 50psi and notice better handling, far less wear, and increased MPG. I also read a report from the San Jose Police Dept. that confirmed what I was seeing and they were running 50psi in their training vehicles that had a Max 44psi sidewall. I only notice the higher pressure when I hit a bump, pothole, or something like that so I avoid those as much as possible. I have the original '05 FEH rear tires with over 60,000 miles and I replaced the fronts with the Michelins. I have one of the front tires as a spare and the other had sidewall damage from a piece of medal. My '09 FEH has a much softer ride even with 50psi but I can still feel and hear the bumps and potholes. Safety is more of a problem with under inflated tires and I feel more safe with the 50psi myself. I don't recommend exceeding Max sidewall to anyone but I just prefer the benefits of 50psi myself. I keep Max sidewall PSI in my other family vehicles for the ride.

I don't know about all that data. If this was the case, everybody would be running 50psi. Had a friend that ran a high pressure in his tires on a F-250 and I commented that'll burn the center of the rear tires. Sometime later he said that the cords were showing on his rear tires! I just smiled.

So if you don't do that on your family car, you must strictly be after the increased milage, correct? You wouldn't make two miles where I live driving on 50psi.

I remember one time in my '97 Ranger Splash SuperCab 4X4 after getting a oil change. I hit some kind of bump or something with both front/back wheels on one side. It darn near turned me sideways and scared me to death! I got home and checked my air pressure in my tires and they were way over MAX. Not me, you can keep your extra MPG.

Edited by wptski, 21 September 2009 - 05:04 PM.

Bill

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#18 OFFLINE   akirby

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Posted 21 September 2009 - 05:18 PM

I don't know about all that data. If this was the case, everybody would be running 50psi. Had a friend that ran a high pressure in his tires on a F-250 and I commented that'll burn the center of the rear tires. Sometime later he said that the cords were showing on his rear tires! I just smiled.

So if you don't do that on your family car, you must strictly be after the increased milage, correct? You wouldn't make two miles where I live driving on 50psi.

I remember one time in my '97 Ranger Splash SuperCab 4X4 after getting a oil change. I hit some kind of bump or something with both front/back wheels on one side. It darn near turned me sideways and scared me to death! I got home and checked my air pressure in my tires and they were way over MAX. Not me, you can keep your extra MPG.


Yep - GaryG is obsessed with hypermiling and totally ignores the safety warnings from both Ford and Michelin (as well as common sense).

#19 OFFLINE   GaryG

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Posted 21 September 2009 - 06:17 PM

Yep - GaryG is obsessed with hypermiling and totally ignores the safety warnings from both Ford and Michelin (as well as common sense).


Compared to most serious hypermilers 6psi above is a drop in the bucket above Max sidewall. I don't ignore Ford or Michelins recommendations for a smoother ride I just prefer a solid handling vehicle, longer tire life, and better MPG. As far as common sense that's a matter of opinion. Hypermiling is a hobby like anything and it's much safer than some hobbies like race car driving or flying those little homemade small planes. If I have a blowout chances are it will be at the speed limit or lower and I will know where other cars and hazards are to make any safe moves. There is a lot of safety built into tire pressure and if you've seen how high tire changers need to go far beyond Max sidewall to set the bead sometimes, now that would scare most people. Yet, I'm not hearing there are injuries related to this issue. The fact is there are a lot of myths about tire pressure that evolved from earlier designs.

Bill, the reason I only keep Max sidewall in my Wife and Son's vehicles is because they don't watch for bumps and potholes. The tires wear okay and they have a smoother ride.

I've posted this before Bill but it's a second opinion you might want to read.

"Driving Under Pressure (full article)
Proper tire pressure could save your life!

http://www.cleanmpg....bby-Ore-Pic.jpg
Sgt. Dave Storton - Officer.com - December 21, 2005

Proudly debunking the PSI = POP myth. Posted because of its frequent citing by CleanMPG members. -- Ed.

How many officers check the tire pressure on their patrol car on a regular basis? We all seem to be great at checking that the lights and siren work, because the time to find out they don’t work is not when you get a Code 3 call. Likewise, the time to find out your tire pressure is too low is not when you are in a pursuit and trying to take a corner at high speed.

What is proper pressure?

The proper tire pressure for the Police Crown Victoria is 44 psi. If you look on the sidewall of the tire, you will see that it lists 44 psi max pressure. Regardless of what vehicle you have, use the maximum pressure listed on the sidewall. Higher pressure results in better performance, decreased tire wear, and it lessens your chance of hydroplaning at a given speed. [bolded for emphasis] This number on the sidewall lists “the maximum amount of pressure you should ever put in the tire under normal driving conditions.” Pursuits and Code 3 responses are not “normal driving conditions.” Many agencies maintain tire pressure at 35 psi since this is what is listed in the owner’s manual and on the door placard. The reason the owner’s manual lists 35 psi is because we get the same manual as the civilian version of the Crown Victoria. The police version, however, is fully loaded with communications equipment, a cage, and your gear. You are not looking for a soft and cushy ride, you want performance.

Myths about pressure

Let’s put to rest some common misconceptions. The tires will not balloon out creating a peak in the center portion of the tread when tire pressure is above 35 psi. There is a steel belt that prevents this from happening. Also, you are not overstressing the tire with higher pressure, and the tire will not be forced off the rim with higher pressure. The picture above is Bobby Ore of Bobby Ore Motorsports driving a Ford Ranger on two wheels. The tires on the left side have 100 psi in them, and they happen to be tires and rims from a 1999 Crown Victoria! This is a dramatic example of how pressure holds the tire in shape, and how much stress a tire can handle.

Performance

If you were able to watch a tire as it travels across the ground at high speed, you would see that it deflects to one side during cornering. The faster you are going through a corner, the more tire deflection you get. As the tire deflects over onto the sidewall, you get less traction and more of a tendency to understeer or oversteer. This could spell disaster when negotiating a corner at high speed during a pursuit or a Code 3 run. Higher pressure keeps the tire from deflecting onto the sidewall as much, which keeps more of the treaded portion on the road.

A good demonstration for EVOC instructors is to have students drive a high-speed course in a vehicle with 32 to 35 psi. Then have them run the same course with 44 to 50 psi in the tires. The student will experience a marked difference in performance. Having officers experience this difference in vehicle performance is much more effective than just telling them to check their tire pressure.

Hydroplaning

When a tire rolls across a road covered with water, the tire tread channels water away so the rubber remains in contact with the road. The factors that affect hydroplaning are speed, and water depth. Conventional wisdom says that vehicles will hydroplane in as little as 1/16th of an inch of water. Not so coincidentally, legal tread depth is 1/16th of an inch.

Tire manufactures and the Association of Law Enforcement Emergency Response Trainers International (ALERT) have shown that tires have more of a tendency to hydroplane when pressure is low. This happens because the tire footprint (the portion of the tire actually in contact with the road) is larger. For those of you who water ski, think of which is easier to get up on: a fat ski or a skinny ski. More tire surface in contact with the water makes it easier to hydroplane, just as it is easier to water ski on a fat ski. Also, a soft tire can be pushed in more by the pressure of the water on the center portion of the tread. This results in less rubber in contact with the road.

Tire wear

Much better tire wear results from maintaining proper pressure. Tires with lower pressure will wear off the outside of the tread faster from the deflection of the tire during cornering, and the tires will heat up more from increased road friction. This is one of the factors that caused the failure of a certain brand of tires on Ford Explorers some years ago. In 1999 the San Jose Police Department realized a significant cost savings by increasing the pressure in the training fleet to 50 psi. They soon followed up by increasing the pressure in the patrol fleet to 44 psi. For liability reasons, most agencies are reluctant to exceed the maximum pressure listed on the tire for actual patrol vehicles, but they reap the cost saving when going to 50 psi on training vehicles.
http://www.cleanmpg....ead.php?t=11652
'05 FWD FEH & '09 FWD FEH

#20 OFFLINE   atomaro

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Posted 21 September 2009 - 07:21 PM

I agree 100% with akirby.

Don't argue with hypermilers...they are tight-wads..they are smarter than engineers who work at Foprd and tire manufacturers. Hypermilers are idiots who value fuel economy over the replacement costs of suspension components, brakes, etc.

But worst of all they are out to get extra MPG, that they could give a shit about the risks that they are putting themselves and other motorists in...all for the sake of a few MPGs. As long as they can squeeze out a few pennies more they don't care that 50psi cold can turn into 60psi or higher hot. Screw everyone else and their safety...I saved myself an extra dollar today.

Edited by atomaro, 21 September 2009 - 07:22 PM.

Let me tell you what Melba Toast is packin' right here, all right. We got 4:11 Positrac outback, 750 double pumper, Edelbrock intake, bored over 30, 11 to 1 pop-up pistons, turbo-jet 390 horsepower. We're talkin' some f^ckin' muscle.