New Toyota RAV4 Test

[Bluecon]

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artic...306/1149/AUTO01

 

Trouble for the Explorer and Escape?

[one2gamble]

If you increase its size by 14inches and add a thrid row is it really still a compact SUV?

 

If ford is worried all they have to do is make the 3.5 an option, which would actually be pretty cool. I dont see why the escape wouldnt get the 3.5 once production ramps up.

Edited December 8, 2005 by one2gamble

[Michael Reynolds]

The Escape yes, but an Explorer not so much.

 

The backseat in that thing is pretty much useless, and I doubt once it is folded up there is little if any cargo space back there.

 

If you ask me it's a little bit of overkill, in an attempt to take the RAV4 from cute-ute-dom to a much more masculine (or aggresive truck). I still do not understand the logic when you have the Highlander and 4Runner all essentially competing for the same market share.

[RichardJensen]

When you consider the average transaction price of the Escape is quite a bit lower than MSRP, the RAV4 looks like it's slotted to fit halfway between the Escape and Edge, and I'm going to bet that it will not outsell those two models combined. Not by a long shot. Advantage: Ford.

 

Of course, you're not going to get that kind of reasoned analysis from a reviewer who closes out his story with this tripe: "The V-6 model is impressive in its ability to rocket you past other vehicles, a characteristic that can rightly be called a safety feature in that it can quickly propel you out of trouble."

 

Bumf. Pure Bumf.

 

Sickening, toe-curling, straight from the Toyota PR hack's mouth to the writer's keyboard bumf. The Toyota love-fest is in full swing at the Det. News.

 

Oh gee. It was written by a Lienert. A regular dynasty of journalistic banalism.

 

...

Edited December 8, 2005 by RichardJensen

[F250]

All Highlanders will soon be hybrid powered. By increasing the size of the Rav4 Toyota hopes to keep customers that want an SUV this size but who demand a conventional powertrain and not the hybrid. No big deal really.

Edited December 9, 2005 by F250

[RichardJensen]

All Highlanders will soon be hybrid powered. By increasing the size of the Rav4 Toyota hopes to keep customers that want an SUV this size but who demand a conventional powertrain and not the hybrid. No big deal really.

??

 

So in the same product space, Ford offers:

 

Escape

Edge

Freestyle

 

and Toyota offers:

 

RAV4

Highlander

 

??

 

And Toyota is going to out-do Ford at this? I beg to differ. The RAV 4 pricing probably gives you some idea of where Ford's going to price the Edge, and Toyota's decision to announce the NA RAV4 in Frankfurt and put it on sale late this year (a full month before V6 models will be available in volume) indicates that they're worried about Hyundai and Ford.

 

Especially Ford.

 

The Escape/Freestyle duo already handily outsells the RAV4/Highlander (by roughly 225k to 190k total units), and that doesn't include the upcoming Edge.

 

The RAV4 is a product that will have to face, shortly after it hits the market, a product being sold for roughly the same price from a company with a broader dealer base and a better reputation for making SUVs and CUVs. They most certainly have their work cut out for them.

 

You will see, as the RAV4 "takes on" the Edge, that Toyota is not unstoppable. They falter where their reputation does not precede them and where their competition does not cede them any ground.

 

...

[Biker16]

When you consider the average transaction price of the Escape is quite a bit lower than MSRP, the RAV4 looks like it's slotted to fit halfway between the Escape and Edge, and I'm going to bet that it will not outsell those two models combined. Not by a long shot. Advantage: Ford.

 

Of course, you're not going to get that kind of reasoned analysis from a reviewer who closes out his story with this tripe: "The V-6 model is impressive in its ability to rocket you past other vehicles, a characteristic that can rightly be called a safety feature in that it can quickly propel you out of trouble."

 

Bumf. Pure Bumf.

 

Sickening, toe-curling, straight from the Toyota PR hack's mouth to the writer's keyboard bumf. The Toyota love-fest is in full swing at the Det. News.

 

Oh gee. It was written by a Lienert. A regular dynasty of journalistic banalism.

 

...

 

sales are worthless with out profit, you cant make a business case a for a replacemnt Escape unless it makes enough money.

 

It doesn't attract investment with small margins. we should be able to sellour cars for as much as toyota does. have to solve that riddle if you want a REAL Turnaround plan.

[RichardJensen]

sales are worthless with out profit, you cant make a business case a for a replacemnt Escape unless it makes enough money.

 

It doesn't attract investment with small margins. we should be able to sellour cars for as much as toyota does. have to solve that riddle if you want a REAL Turnaround plan.

The Escape's MSRP is quite close to the RAV4's.

 

However, both Escape and current RAV4 sell far below MSRP.

 

What is different is (like the Five Hundred vs. the Taurus), Toyota has brought out a product that will sell closer to MSRP than the outgoing model.

 

Ford's two options with the Escape are to replace it and lower the price (as has been mentioned by BORG), or to replace it and keep the price the same, and accept higher incentivizing (this is what has happened with the F150).

 

My opinion is that the EUCD platform underpinning the Freelander can be profitably and quickly adapted for the next Escape. What they do with the pricing is up to them. If Mazda is dropping the Tribute, EUCD makes the most sense.

 

I think the Escape is quite profitable for Ford, and moving it to a common architecture will make it even more so. I believe the midcycle refresh was seriously curtailed as part of the 2001-2003 restructuring at Ford, and that may lead to some mistaken conclusions about its importance to Ford.

 

I think Ford will outflank the RAV4 with the Edge and Escape, and will do so profitably.

 

...

[sullynd]

My opinion is that the EUCD platform underpinning the Freelander can be profitably and quickly adapted for the next Escape. What they do with the pricing is up to them. If Mazda is dropping the Tribute, EUCD makes the most sense.

 

My understanding as to the primary reason Ford Europe is standardizing around EUCD is the engine configuration (Being able to accomodate the Volvo Engines).

 

If Ford NA is not getting a C1 Focus anytime soon, and as EUCD is an adaptation of C1, why switch away from CD3 for NA? The same arguments that could be made for EUCD being adapted for the Freelander could be made for CD3 already having been adapted for the Edge.

 

Perhaps a Mini-CD3 makes more sense for an Escape/Focus replacement than C1/EUCD...

[RichardJensen]

My understanding as to the primary reason Ford Europe is standardizing around EUCD is the engine configuration (Being able to accomodate the Volvo Engines).

 

If Ford NA is not getting a C1 Focus anytime soon, and as EUCD is an adaptation of C1, why switch away from CD3 for NA? The same arguments that could be made for EUCD being adapted for the Freelander could be made for CD3 already having been adapted for the Edge.

 

Perhaps a Mini-CD3 makes more sense for an Escape/Focus replacement than C1/EUCD...

An intriguing thought.

 

One wonders if that has been considered. 'Twould seem an interesting possibility. However, one wonders if shortening the wheelbase that much would result in an overly stiff buckboardish ride. That has been a complaint about the shorter Nissan trucks and SUVs.

 

...

[Biker16]

My understanding as to the primary reason Ford Europe is standardizing around EUCD is the engine configuration (Being able to accomodate the Volvo Engines).

 

If Ford NA is not getting a C1 Focus anytime soon, and as EUCD is an adaptation of C1, why switch away from CD3 for NA? The same arguments that could be made for EUCD being adapted for the Freelander could be made for CD3 already having been adapted for the Edge.

 

Perhaps a Mini-CD3 makes more sense for an Escape/Focus replacement than C1/EUCD...

 

 

here is anaother option move the N.A. Focus to a stretched B1 platform. like Nissan has done with the versa.

 

You could thenbuild the Focus and the Bcars for better economy of scale.

 

Ford's choice is To drop the V6 from the escape and share the platform with the Focus , the CRV doesn't have a V6 option. one could argue with the edge the escape moves down market and The V6 would not be needed, allowing for simpler I4/FWD I4/4WD mix.

 

The issue with any european sourced platform is the exchange rate and the use of fncy european compnetry. You have to set up the entire supply base in the US that mirror that in europe. that eliminates the economies of scale that would be needed.

 

The advatage as always is alone the Focus cannot finance a global platform withthe escape it can. the volume of 500k-700k would be more than adquate, and make it easier for Ford to combine it's global C and C/D archtechtures into one global archtechture.

 

My bet is the next C1 platform will be AWD and V6 capable.

[Missouri Mule]

I don't get the new RAV4. It isn't particularly good looking in my opinion and C&D's "observed" gas mileage is only 16 mpg. What's the market for an ugly SUV with lousy gas mileage? If this didn't have a Toyota badge on it, I don't think they could give them away. But that's just me.

[F250]

For Toyota increasing the size of the Rav4 is not about competing with Ford (or anyone else) it's about giving their customer a comparable vehicle to the Highlander that has a conventional powertrain.

 

The Toyota marketing people think it is not enough for hybrid customers to drive a hybrid vehicle, they must drive one that is recognizable only as a hybrid. Driving a Prius is like a political statement, everyone recognizes it as being a hybrid and that is part of the appeal to that buyer, "look at me, I'm Capt. Green" and all that crap sells to a certain segment of geeks. Well Toyota is going to go all-hybrid in the Highlander hoping that it will gain the same recognition.

 

But the Highlander is not like the Prius. The Prius has never been anything but a hybrid whearas the Highlander is an existing, successful conventional powered vehicle. So the plan is to grow the Rav4 to the same approximate size as the Highlander and keep it conventional powered including the V6. If a customer wants a Toyota in this class but does not want the trendy hybrid they can choose the Rav4 and get a vehicle comparable to the current Highlander.

 

It really has little to do with competition from any other manufacturers on the market because from Toyota's arrogant point of view they are the best car company on the planet and they have no competition.

 

By the way Mule, your statement "It isn't particularly good looking" pretty much describes the entire Toyota vehicle line.

[calypsocoral]

For Toyota increasing the size of the Rav4 is not about competing with Ford (or anyone else) it's about giving their customer a comparable vehicle to the Highlander that has a conventional powertrain.

 

I beg to differ.

 

Keep in mind that the current RAV4 is smaller than the Escape, CR-V, Outlander, and just about anything else considered a "cute-ute".

 

The new RAV4 is just a smidge larger than the CR-V and is now roughly the size of the Escape, with the option of a useless 3rd-row seat (which only exists to make the soccer-mommy buying the thing a little less guilty about doing so).

 

The Highlander will have a conventional powertrain, at least as an option, and will likely be more wagon-like in its appearance, as per the Nissan Murano. How do I know this?

 

Boxy cute-ute's with rounder, more car-like mid-size siblings is now, officially, an industry-wide trend. You can see it in Hyundai between their Tucson and 2007 Santa Fe. You can see it in Subaru between their Forester and B9 Tribeca. You can see it in Ford between their Escape and Edge. You will soon see it in Mazda between their Tribute and CX-7. I'm willing to place money on both Honda and Mitsubishi following suit with the re-designs of their Pilot and Endeavor mid-size SUV's, respectively.