[rmc523]

donzuchowski, on May 22 2009, 11:33 PM, said:

what is so outdated on this proven platform that is only a few years old. ford refreshed the panther platform a few years ago... all new.... i saw if it is not broken why fix it.... ford is going to give up limo for a taurus/500? why not make the taurus rwd and bigger then the current panthers ecen with a w16 engine from vw.....

Most just think of the body when thinking of how old the car is.

As I've posted many times, here's updates:

http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss296/rmc523/crownvic2.jpg

[T'Cal]

An AWD Taurus PI with the standard 3.5L V6 will likely outperform the CVPI in most if not all measurable categories while offering better room for driver, passengers (re: arrestees), equipment, and cargo. The 30 year-old CVPI is reliable, relatively cheap, and large not to mention it has strong support from aftermarket suppliers. But, it's time. It's time to put her out to pasture. The Taurus is fully capable of taken on the important role of America's squad car.

[joihan777]

T'Cal, on Aug 6 2009, 12:09 PM, said:

An AWD Taurus PI with the standard 3.5L V6 will likely outperform the CVPI in most if not all measurable categories while offering better room for driver, passengers (re: arrestees), equipment, and cargo. The 30 year-old CVPI is reliable, relatively cheap, and large not to mention it has strong support from aftermarket suppliers. But, it's time. It's time to put her out to pasture. The Taurus is fully capable of taken on the important role of America's squad car.

One thing I don't see with the 2010 Taurus is space for the police stuff on the inside. They use multiple screen (computers, radios), plus the electronic siren/ lighting controls and of course tactical gear like guns, radios, flashlights etc.

If Ford could not bring about a new Global Rear Wheel Drive vehicle and only offered the Taurus, then I think the police would be hard pressed to choose a car with such a stylized dash for basic patrol duties.

Of course Ford could sell a "Police Dash" kit seperately so municipalities could outfit their Taurus fleets for duty but return the original dash to the cars for selloff. Maybe the transmission selector can be transferred to the column too. The "Police Dash" can have as much CV hard points as possible to improve flexibitlity too. The "Police Dash" kit can be included with the hard plastic backseat and other stuff in the Interceptor package.

BTW, a Police Taurus SHO would give new meaning to the term "Interceptor" :shades:

[theoldwizard]

T'Cal, on Aug 6 2009, 05:09 PM, said:

An AWD Taurus PI with the standard 3.5L V6 will likely outperform the CVPI in most if not all measurable categories while offering better room for driver, passengers (re: arrestees), ...

Check your specs !

It was discussed elsewhere, but the 2010 Taurus lost about an inch or 2 of headroom and about 3" of rear seat leg room. This is why (IMHO) they need a stretched version of the Taurus for Police/Taxi (like what Volvo did with the S80 in China).

Despite what you see on TV, not every cop is a fantastic driver. AWD would be welcomed, even if just to help with the RWD to FWD/AWD transition. And they need all of the HP they can get, so add in the EcoBoost.

[Deanh]

theoldwizard, on Sep 7 2009, 04:39 AM, said:

Check your specs !

It was discussed elsewhere, but the 2010 Taurus lost about an inch or 2 of headroom and about 3" of rear seat leg room. This is why (IMHO) they need a stretched version of the Taurus for Police/Taxi (like what Volvo did with the S80 in China).

Despite what you see on TV, not every cop is a fantastic driver. AWD would be welcomed, even if just to help with the RWD to FWD/AWD transition. And they need all of the HP they can get, so add in the EcoBoost.

gotta keep those rear seat felons comfy dont we...massaging Rear seats?

[Mark B. Morrow]

theoldwizard, on Sep 7 2009, 09:39 AM, said:

Check your specs !

It was discussed elsewhere, but the 2010 Taurus lost about an inch or 2 of headroom and about 3" of rear seat leg room. This is why (IMHO) they need a stretched version of the Taurus for Police/Taxi (like what Volvo did with the S80 in China).

Despite what you see on TV, not every cop is a fantastic driver. AWD would be welcomed, even if just to help with the RWD to FWD/AWD transition. And they need all of the HP they can get, so add in the EcoBoost.

The relevant comparison isnt the Taurus vs Crown Vic specs but the Taurus vs. Impala vs. Charger

The tale of the tape:

Spec: Taurus / Impala / Charger / Crown Vic
Front Head: 39.0 / 39.4 / 38.7 / 39.5
Front Leg: 41.9 / 42.3 / 41.8 / 41.6
Front Shoulder: 57.9 / 58.7 / 59.3 / 60.6
Front Hip: 56.3 / 56.4 / 56.2 / 57.4
Rear Head: 37.8 / 37.8 / 36.2 / 37.8
Rear Leg: 38.1 / 37.6 / 40.2 / 38.0
Rear Shoulder: 56.9 / 58.6 / 57.6 / 60.0
Rear Hip: 55.8 / 57.2 / 55.5 / 56.1

The Taurus stacks up pretty well against the competition

- Ties Impala in rear head and beats it in rear leg room
- Within 1" all front specs, 2" rear shoulder & hip room
- Beats Charger in front head, leg & hip, rear head and rear hip room
- Within 1" rear shoulder and 2.1" rear leg room

This post has been edited by Mark B. Morrow: 07 September 2009 - 10:33 PM

[Bob Rosadini]

rmc523, on May 25 2009, 08:42 PM, said:

Most just think of the body when thinking of how old the car is.

As I've posted many times, here's updates:

http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss296/rmc523/crownvic2.jpg

523- And as I've said- nice job! But we are a minority spinning our wheels- the car has had upgrades- my 07 Sport gets on the low side 22 mpg and if I have any degree of consistant t-way driving (at 75 mph) it gets 23.8. I wonder what it would do if it had the five speed that is in the wifes Explorer 4.6?


who knows- maybe some good will come out of the talks with the CAW that started today- they will demand something for STAP and /Ford will counter with something for Oakville- but who knows. As I and others have said- forcing the PI business into the Taurus will only hurt the image of a car that is pushing 40 grand.

[joihan777]

So did anyone ever have an answer to this idea?

Ford can use the stampings, etc. for the 500/ 5th gen Taurus exclusively for LE fleet use? The upgraded powertrain can be had from the current 6th gen. Taurus but the exterior styling will be from the older model.

Ford can change the front seat for a bench, or just take out the center console and make the dash as much as possible compatible with the CV, so LE fleets will REALLY see it as a cost effective solution.

This would keep the roomier cab of the 5th gen but protect the 6th gen Taurus identity.

[T'Cal]

joihan777, on Sep 6 2009, 01:31 AM, said:

One thing I don't see with the 2010 Taurus is space for the police stuff on the inside. They use multiple screen (computers, radios), plus the electronic siren/ lighting controls and of course tactical gear like guns, radios, flashlights etc.

If Ford could not bring about a new Global Rear Wheel Drive vehicle and only offered the Taurus, then I think the police would be hard pressed to choose a car with such a stylized dash for basic patrol duties.

Of course Ford could sell a "Police Dash" kit seperately so municipalities could outfit their Taurus fleets for duty but return the original dash to the cars for selloff. Maybe the transmission selector can be transferred to the column too. The "Police Dash" can have as much CV hard points as possible to improve flexibitlity too. The "Police Dash" kit can be included with the hard plastic backseat and other stuff in the Interceptor package.

BTW, a Police Taurus SHO would give new meaning to the term "Interceptor" :shades:

I'm quite familiar with what is used inside the CVPI. It's not a terrible car; it's just dated and it really sucks in wet/snowy weather where the AWD Taurus would do worlds better.

Like the Charger, the new Taurus PI would need a column shifter and no center console. That would allow room for an aftermarket one that holds much of the radio equipment and controls for lights and sirens we use. Our Mobile Data Terminals (MDTs) are on a swing arm and a switch is added to shut off the passenger side airbag. To cope with the space needed for the addition of audio/video recorders and ticket printers, three years ago my agency went to placing a carpeted board over the front passenger seat to mount some hardware. There's still room for storage of and easy access to a duty bag on that board. Some squads were designated "training vehicles" and items were mounted in the trunk so that a new officer and FTO could both ride up front. Having driven the CVPIs for years (along with several 9C1 Caprices, Impalas, and Malibus, PPV Tahoes, and even some Dodge Diplomats), I can say with a lot of experience that the Taurus has tremendous potential for being an outstanding replacement for America's favorite police car.

This post has been edited by T'Cal: 18 September 2009 - 09:32 PM

[upstate]

Mark B. Morrow, on Sep 8 2009, 04:31 AM, said:

The relevant comparison isnt the Taurus vs Crown Vic specs but the Taurus vs. Impala vs. Charger

The tale of the tape:

Spec: Taurus / Impala / Charger / Crown Vic
Front Head: 39.0 / 39.4 / 38.7 / 39.5
Front Leg: 41.9 / 42.3 / 41.8 / 41.6
Front Shoulder: 57.9 / 58.7 / 59.3 / 60.6
Front Hip: 56.3 / 56.4 / 56.2 / 57.4
Rear Head: 37.8 / 37.8 / 36.2 / 37.8
Rear Leg: 38.1 / 37.6 / 40.2 / 38.0
Rear Shoulder: 56.9 / 58.6 / 57.6 / 60.0
Rear Hip: 55.8 / 57.2 / 55.5 / 56.1

The Taurus stacks up pretty well against the competition

- Ties Impala in rear head and beats it in rear leg room
- Within 1" all front specs, 2" rear shoulder & hip room
- Beats Charger in front head, leg & hip, rear head and rear hip room
- Within 1" rear shoulder and 2.1" rear leg room

And all the chief's I talk to say the Impalia is to small. Ford has to exceed the dementions not tie or be smaller.

[theoldwizard]

At a recent internal meeting, Mulally said there would be no follow on to the Crown Vic Police Interceptor. Simply not profitable.

[Deanh]

theoldwizard, on Oct 30 2009, 04:15 PM, said:

At a recent internal meeting, Mulally said there would be no follow on to the Crown Vic Police Interceptor. Simply not profitable.

thankyou Wiz. I needed that, and right before the weekend...Panther Mafia...PLEASE WRITE THOSE WORDS DOWN..........

[theoldwizard]

theoldwizard, on Oct 30 2009, 09:15 PM, said:

At a recent internal meeting, Mulally said there would be no follow on to the Crown Vic Police Interceptor. Simply not profitable.

Funny thing was, just before he said that, Mulally said they liked the "exposure".

Who knows. They might have a change of heart !

[jpd80]

theoldwizard, on Oct 30 2009, 11:52 PM, said:

Funny thing was, just before he said that, Mulally said they liked the "exposure".

Who knows. They might have a change of heart !

Or a change of vehicle....

It's funny how GM seems determined to use an imported low cost version of their Zeta luxury vehicle
to reclaim law enforcement contracts, a market sector they abandoned years ago due to low profit.
Makes you wonder whether the whole exercise is worth it, probably not.

This post has been edited by jpd80: 30 October 2009 - 10:57 PM

[theoldwizard]

jpd80, on Oct 31 2009, 03:46 AM, said:

Or a change of vehicle....

You did not read what I wrote. "...no follow on...", means just that. Nothing. NA DA. Zilch !

I'm certain they will sell some Mustangs as pursuit vehicles, and some F150s and Expeditions and maybe a few Explorers as special police vehicles, but they have no plans for a purposely designed police interceptor.

[T'Cal]

The Carbon Motors E7 will certainly be an interesting option. That company is touting that, while it will cost more initially, it will be cheaper to have over the lifetime of the vehicle. First, the car will come already equipped with lights, sirens, video systems, and even mobile computers. That will cut down on the parts and costly labor of having to resort to aftermarket installers that most municipalities currently use. Next, the engine is diesel, which will mean it will not only have substantial low end grunt and be fuel efficient, but it can go hundreds of thousands of miles before the need for a rebuild. Maintenance costs are said to be cheaper, too. Lastly, it will stay in service two to three times longer than a traditional converted civilian car such as the CVPI or 9C1. Cities and villages do consider the long term costs in their capital plans so the E7 may very well be viable to many if not most municipalities.


Now comes the 9C1 Caprice, nee Holden Statesman. This car will be quite successful I predict. Chevy had a huge following for decades because of the RWD Impalas and Caprices and many of those officers and administrators are still around. The FWD Impalas, while cheap and fuel efficient, haven't held up as well in urban driving. OTOH, the CVPIs have, but their days are numbered. The Chargers and Tahoes are a few thousand dollars more, which adds up fast. Many police agencies stick with one vehicle for patrol use to keep servicing costs down while having a few specialty vehicles for special uses (SUVs for supervisors or evidence technicians, minivans or pick ups for service officers, panel trucks as mobile command units, etc.). When Ford finally drops the CVPI, which will be soon, I see the Caprice stepping in right on time to garner the bulk of the police vehicle market. That is if Chevy keeps costs down. If it comes in more expensive than the Charger or a Taurus PI, it will still sell but not as well.

This post has been edited by T'Cal: 01 November 2009 - 11:32 AM

[joihan777]

T'Cal, on Nov 1 2009, 12:30 PM, said:

The Carbon Motors E7 will certainly be an interesting option. That company is touting that, while it will cost more initially, it will be cheaper to have over the lifetime of the vehicle. First, the car will come already equipped with lights, sirens, video systems, and even mobile computers. That will cut down on the parts and costly labor of having to resort to aftermarket installers that most municipalities currently use. Next, the engine is diesel, which will mean it will not only have substantial low end grunt and be fuel efficient, but it can go hundreds of thousands of miles before the need for a rebuild. Maintenance costs are said to be cheaper, too. Lastly, it will stay in service two to three times longer than a traditional converted civilian car such as the CVPI or 9C1. Cities and villages do consider the long term costs in their capital plans so the E7 may very well be viable to many if not most municipalities.


Now comes the 9C1 Caprice, nee Holden Statesman. This car will be quite successful I predict. Chevy had a huge following for decades because of the RWD Impalas and Caprices and many of those officers and administrators are still around. The FWD Impalas, while cheap and fuel efficient, haven't held up as well in urban driving. OTOH, the CVPIs have, but their days are numbered. The Chargers and Tahoes are a few thousand dollars more, which adds up fast. Many police agencies stick with one vehicle for patrol use to keep servicing costs down while having a few specialty vehicles for special uses (SUVs for supervisors or evidence technicians, minivans or pick ups for service officers, panel trucks as mobile command units, etc.). When Ford finally drops the CVPI, which will be soon, I see the Caprice stepping in right on time to garner the bulk of the police vehicle market. That is if Chevy keeps costs down. If it comes in more expensive than the Charger or a Taurus PI, it will still sell but not as well.

Don't LE managers consider the end-of-life sale to the public of their vehicles when computing vehicle cost?

What will LE do with their end-of-life'd vehicles? Will the public be able to buy them eventually?

This post has been edited by joihan777: 01 November 2009 - 01:09 PM

[theoldwizard]

T'Cal, on Nov 1 2009, 04:30 PM, said:

The Carbon Motors E7 will certainly be an interesting option. That company is touting that, while it will cost more initially, it will be cheaper to have over the lifetime of the vehicle.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I have seen the "glossy brochures". Prove it !

Plus it is pretty hard to tell any municipality that they need to pony up twice the price for a new cop car. They just don't have that kind of cash.

[Deanh]

theoldwizard, on Nov 2 2009, 07:30 PM, said:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I have seen the "glossy brochures". Prove it !

Plus it is pretty hard to tell any municipality that they need to pony up twice the price for a new cop car. They just don't have that kind of cash.

twice the $ is conservative.....and now dealers ( we are one ) for X ( I beleive 11k ) amount of dollars will basically build a used Crown Vic to NEW status, engine, drivetrain, suspension...EVERYTHING....

[2b2]

Deanh, on Nov 2 2009, 03:52 PM, said:

twice the $ is conservative.....and now dealers ( we are one ) for X ( I beleive 11k ) amount of dollars will basically build a used Crown Vic to NEW status, engine, drivetrain, suspension...EVERYTHING....

Deanh, are those like-new CV's just for fleet or for the public too?
...if the second, would you please verify the price? ;)