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Ford A plan


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#1 OFFLINE   oldfashioned

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Posted 05 August 2008 - 05:54 PM

Hi, I had a question regarding A-PLAN

Is it only good off of the MSRP or can you negotiate a price off the MSRP and THEN apply the A-PLAN?

Thanks







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#2 OFFLINE   cobra8

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Posted 05 August 2008 - 06:07 PM

Hi, I had a question regarding A-PLAN

Is it only good off of the MSRP or can you negotiate a price off the MSRP and THEN apply the A-PLAN?

Thanks


I would guess that would be up to the dealer but I have not heard of any negotiating off on A plan price. If you have extras on the vehicle that were added after sticker, you could probably negotiate that part. But you would also qualify for any incentives offered from Ford on that vehicle.I would ck. on incentives before you went to dealer as I would not put it past a few of them not to tell you they exist. You can ck. on incentives at www.fordvehicles.com

#3 OFFLINE   bbf2530

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Posted 05 August 2008 - 06:10 PM

Hi, I had a question regarding A-PLAN

Is it only good off of the MSRP or can you negotiate a price off the MSRP and THEN apply the A-PLAN?

Thanks


Hi oldfashioned. :D The A-Plan is a set price. There is no negotiating. It is not an Incentive or Rebate that is deducted from the MSRP.

Essentially, for the sake of easy description, it is the price that the Dealer pays Ford for the vehicle (the Dealer gets a certain amount of reimbursement from Ford for the sale, but that is another story and also not up for negotiation. An A-Plan price is well below both the MSRP and the "Factory Invoice" price.

Once you have determined a vehicles A-Plan price (by having the Dealer show you the Factory Invoice with the A-Plan price box clearly readable), you are then entitled to all Incentives and Rebates normally available to the general public. These Incentives are deducted from th A-Plan price.

Hope this is not too confusing.

Good luck. :beerchug:

Edited by bbf2530, 05 August 2008 - 06:12 PM.


#4 OFFLINE   theoldwizard

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Posted 05 August 2008 - 06:17 PM

Hi, I had a question regarding A-PLAN

A Plan is a flat, no haggle price. It is equal to the dealer invoice and is not negotiable !

Also from the A plan web site

Do dealers make a profit on the New Vehicle Purchase Program?

Yes. Dealers receive a commission from Ford Motor Company on each New Vehicle Purchase Program transaction (including X-Plan).


Financing and trade-in can be negotiated. Most (but not all) other incentives apply

#5 OFFLINE   theoldwizard

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Posted 05 August 2008 - 06:23 PM

BTW, A Plan is only for Ford Employees and members of their immediate family (although the definition of "immediate" is pretty big). There are penalties, including firing, that can be applied if the rules are broken.

#6 OFFLINE   bbf2530

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Posted 05 August 2008 - 06:25 PM

Hi all. :D Just to make a slight correction to what theoldwizard stated: X-Plan is approximately equal to the Dealer Invoice. In fact, according to the cost of the vehicle, X-Plan pricing is normally $50-$150 (give or take) below Dealer Invoice.

A-Plan is well below Dealer Invoice and X-Plan pricing. And again, it is non-negotiable.

Also, as theoldwizard stated: A-Plan is only for qualifying Ford Employees and certain immediate family members (or in the case of certain Ford sponsored promotions, when they offer "Family Plan Pricing" on certain vehicles). But other then those types of promotions, no exceptions.

Good luck. :beerchug:

Edited by bbf2530, 05 August 2008 - 06:34 PM.


#7 OFFLINE   oldfashioned

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Posted 05 August 2008 - 07:50 PM

thanks for the help, I actually think right now, with the economy being what it is, you can get better discounts by now saying you are a ford employee.

P.S. Exactly what % off the MSRP is A-PLAN? 10%?

Edited by oldfashioned, 05 August 2008 - 07:51 PM.


#8 OFFLINE   bbf2530

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Posted 05 August 2008 - 08:12 PM

thanks for the help, I actually think right now, with the economy being what it is, you can get better discounts by now saying you are a ford employee.

P.S. Exactly what % off the MSRP is A-PLAN? 10%?


Hi oldfashioned. :D The A-Plan price is not a set percentage, and it is not based off of the MSRP, it is based off the Factory Invoice Price. No way to answer how much of a discount it will be, as it will vary from model to model, and even vehicle to vehicle within the same model range, according to how they are equipped/optioned.

No sure what you mean by "you can get better discounts by now saying you are a ford employee." That is not how A-Plan sales work. You can not just "say you ar a Ford Employee". You must be an Employee or a family member.

Again, the only exception is when Ford offers "Family Plan Pricing" for a particular model range. Then any buyer can get that pricing. But just saying you are a Ford Employee is not an option.

Good luck. :beerchug:

#9 OFFLINE   oldfashioned

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Posted 05 August 2008 - 08:36 PM

Hi oldfashioned. :D The A-Plan price is not a set percentage, and it is not based off of the MSRP, it is based off the Factory Invoice Price. No way to answer how much of a discount it will be, as it will vary from model to model, and even vehicle to vehicle within the same model range, according to how they are equipped/optioned.

No sure what you mean by "you can get better discounts by now saying you are a ford employee." That is not how A-Plan sales work. You can not just "say you ar a Ford Employee". You must be an Employee or a family member.

Again, the only exception is when Ford offers "Family Plan Pricing" for a particular model range. Then any buyer can get that pricing. But just saying you are a Ford Employee is not an option.

Good luck. :beerchug:



I am a ford employee, I was referring to not saying you were an employee and seeing what discounts they would give you.

Roughly though, how much would you say the a plan % is?

#10 OFFLINE   bbf2530

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Posted 05 August 2008 - 09:22 PM

I am a ford employee, I was referring to not saying you were an employee and seeing what discounts they would give you.

Roughly though, how much would you say the a plan % is?


Hi oldfashoined. :D An individual will not get a new, non-demo car for less than A-Plan, on their own. A-Plan pricing is what the Dealer actually paid Ford for the car. So that would mean they are selling a new, non demo vehicle for less than their cost.

Concerning a percentage: Again, A-Plan pricing can not be calculated in that way. I am not trying to keep a secret, it just does not work in that manner. Some members here will work in approximate numbers (and that is their right to do so if they like), I do not.

Since you are a Ford Employee, all you need to do is register for the Ford Employee AXZD-Plan website. Then you can price out any vehicle, in any Dealers Inventory and get exact A-Plan pricing.

Good luck. :beerchug:

#11 OFFLINE   whatunion?

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Posted 05 August 2008 - 09:34 PM

I am a ford employee, I was referring to not saying you were an employee and seeing what discounts they would give you.

Roughly though, how much would you say the a plan % is?


First of all, the A plan price is not in any way based on the MSRP or "sticker price" of the vehicle. It is based on the invoice price. Each model is a different percentage as well as each option on the vehicle. Therefore, each vehicle will vary slightly on the exact percentage knocked off from the invoice price.
There is no way you will ever "negotiate" a price anywhere near the "A plan" price (which is set in stone and not negotiable) without disclosing the fact that you are an employee.

Edited by whatunion?, 05 August 2008 - 10:00 PM.


#12 OFFLINE   partsisparts

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Posted 05 August 2008 - 09:54 PM

A- plan is 4.5% off dealer invoice total. It has nothing to do with MSRP. The A-plan price is printed on the dealer invoice for the car. It MUST be shown to the customer. There is no negotiation on price.


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#13 OFFLINE   bbf2530

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Posted 05 August 2008 - 10:41 PM

A- plan is 4.5% off dealer invoice total. It has nothing to do with MSRP. The A-plan price is printed on the dealer invoice for the car. It MUST be shown to the customer. There is no negotiation on price.


Hi partsisparts, and anyone else interested. :D Again, there is no definitive % off figure that you can deduct from a vehicles Invoice price that will give an accurate A-Plan price. It will vary from model to model, and again even from vehicle to vehicle in the same model line according to how the vehicle is equipped/optioned.

For example, if you used the "4.5% off dealer invoice total" figure stated above, you would come up with an A-Plan price that is $468 too low on my MKZ, and $510 too low on my sisters Taurus X. To me, that is not close enough to be considered an accurate figure.

The only way to find the true A/Z-Plan price is to have the Dealer show you the Factory Invoice with the A-Plan price box listing the A-Plan price (as required by Ford), or sign up for the Ford Employee AXZD-Plan website and check A-Plan pricing on Dealer Inventory vehicles.

A Ford Employee will have no problem finding out the true A-Plan pricing of a vehicle, either online or at the Dealership.

Good luck. :beerchug:

Edited by bbf2530, 05 August 2008 - 10:46 PM.


#14 OFFLINE   partsisparts

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Posted 06 August 2008 - 08:39 AM

Hi partsisparts, and anyone else interested. :D Again, there is no definitive % off figure that you can deduct from a vehicles Invoice price that will give an accurate A-Plan price. It will vary from model to model, and again even from vehicle to vehicle in the same model line according to how the vehicle is equipped/optioned.

For example, if you used the "4.5% off dealer invoice total" figure stated above, you would come up with an A-Plan price that is $468 too low on my MKZ, and $510 too low on my sisters Taurus X. To me, that is not close enough to be considered an accurate figure.

The only way to find the true A/Z-Plan price is to have the Dealer show you the Factory Invoice with the A-Plan price box listing the A-Plan price (as required by Ford), or sign up for the Ford Employee AXZD-Plan website and check A-Plan pricing on Dealer Inventory vehicles.

A Ford Employee will have no problem finding out the true A-Plan pricing of a vehicle, either online or at the Dealership.

Good luck. :beerchug:

The difference in the money is FDAF.


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#15 OFFLINE   bbf2530

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Posted 06 August 2008 - 09:20 AM

The difference in the money is FDAF.


Hi partsisparts. :D No, unfortunately that is not the case. I have included all fees and charges (including FDAF/LMDA, U.S. Gal Gas, Destination and Delivery etc.). I am working right off the Factory Invoice.

I am looking at the Dealer Invoice right now, sitting in front of me. Dealer Invoice price of my MKZ was $29,688 (that is the total, including all of the above charges, including LMDA, the Lincoln-Mercury equivalent of the FDAF). 4.5% of that figure is $1,355.96. Subtract that amount and you have a subtotal of $28,352.04. The A/Z-Plan price for my MKZ was $28,821 (again, right off the Dealer Invoice sitting in front of me).

That leaves a price difference of $468.96. So using the 4.5% discount figure will give an A-Plan price that is $497 too low (rounded off).

I can perform the same calculations with my sisters Taurus X Invoice and the discrepancy will be over $500 ($510 rounded off, as I explained last night). I am extremely familiar with the pricing structure.

The A-Plan discount is not a straight 4.5% off of Factory Invoice. The amount varies from model to model and even within model ranges, according to how a vehicle is equipped/optioned.

EDIT - To help settle this discussion, I have copied and pasted the explanation of AXZD-Plan pricing, directly from the Ford AXZD-Plan website. It reads as follows (and is there for anyone to double check, if they have access to the Employee site):

AZ-Plan
Dealer Invoice – Holdback – Advertising Assessment + $75 Administration Fee + AZ Plan Surcharge.


The above underlined and bold statement is the A-Plan calculation. Notice it does not state "Dealer Invoice price - 4.5%". It is a more involved calculation formula, and includes several figures which us mere mortals do not have normal access to (i.e the Dealer Holdback amount and what the A/Z Plan surcharge amount may be). Those figures will vary from vehicle to vehicle. This is why I have explained to "oldfashioned" (the original poster) that the A-Plan price can not be broken down into a straight percentage off of the Dealer Invoice. To try and do so will give an inaccurate price.

Please understand that I am not trying to be argumentative. I just hate to quote inaccurate pricing figures to people who are asking, because they will then figure we do not know what we are talking about, or thinking they have the right price quote from us, may incorrectly argue with a Dealerships pricing figure, thinking they are being ripped off.

Good luck. :beerchug:

Edited by bbf2530, 06 August 2008 - 09:45 AM.


#16 OFFLINE   akirby

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Posted 06 August 2008 - 09:31 AM

X plan is supposed to be A plan plus 4%, so you should be able to take the X plan price and divide it by 1.04 to get A plan. bbf2350 - can you try that with your invoice?

#17 OFFLINE   bbf2530

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Posted 06 August 2008 - 10:01 AM

X plan is supposed to be A plan plus 4%, so you should be able to take the X plan price and divide it by 1.04 to get A plan. bbf2350 - can you try that with your invoice?


EDIT - Corrected for a math error I made. Corrected amounts are in red.

Hi akirby. :D That calculation comes close, but is still off very slightly.

AZ-Plan price of my MKZ was $28,821. 4% of that figure is $1152.84. Add those two figures and we get a total of $29,973.84.

X-Plan price was $29,941.13. So there is a difference of +$32.71. But it is relatively close.

And then if we divide X-Plan ($29,941.13) by 1.04, we get $28,789.548, which is a difference of +$31.46, and different than the $32.71 amount above. Maybe that $1.25 difference can be explained by Ford rounding amounts up or down somewhere that we do not know of?

For anyone else who would like to try the calculations on their own (or double check my sometimes shaky math skills :redcard: ), here are the pricing amounts on my MKZ (again, straight off the original copy of the Factory Invoice, which also match the figures on the VOC):
MSRP - $31,775
Invoice - $29,688 (including LMDA, Destination and Delivery, Fuel etc.)
X-Plan - $29,941.13
A/Z-Plan - $28,821

My head hurts now from all of this thinking. I believe I need a nap. :hysterical:

Good luck. :beerchug:

Edited by bbf2530, 06 August 2008 - 10:53 AM.


#18 OFFLINE   oldfashioned

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Posted 06 August 2008 - 11:35 AM

Man, the taurus x is hideous, what was ford thinking when they put that into production.

#19 OFFLINE   akirby

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Posted 06 August 2008 - 11:44 AM

EDIT - Corrected for a math error I made. Corrected amounts are in red.

Hi akirby. :D That calculation comes close, but is still off very slightly.

AZ-Plan price of my MKZ was $28,821. 4% of that figure is $1152.84. Add those two figures and we get a total of $29,973.84.

X-Plan price was $29,941.13. So there is a difference of +$32.71. But it is relatively close.

And then if we divide X-Plan ($29,941.13) by 1.04, we get $28,789.548, which is a difference of +$31.46, and different than the $32.71 amount above. Maybe that $1.25 difference can be explained by Ford rounding amounts up or down somewhere that we do not know of?

For anyone else who would like to try the calculations on their own (or double check my sometimes shaky math skills :redcard: ), here are the pricing amounts on my MKZ (again, straight off the original copy of the Factory Invoice, which also match the figures on the VOC):
MSRP - $31,775
Invoice - $29,688 (including LMDA, Destination and Delivery, Fuel etc.)
X-Plan - $29,941.13
A/Z-Plan - $28,821

My head hurts now from all of this thinking. I believe I need a nap. :hysterical:

Good luck. :beerchug:


I think they're just oversimplifying and the actual formula is a lot more complicated (or there is no formula and the price is set manually - that might explain why some X plan prices are $100 or more below invoice and some are only $2 below invoice).

Just for estimating purposes, get the KBB or Edmunds dealer invoice price and add $400 to get the approximate true dealer invoice. Subtract $100 for X plan and divide X plan by 1.04 to get the approximate A plan price. This should get you within $100 or so of the actual prices.

Assuming you can't get the actual prices of course.

#20 OFFLINE   Marginal Economist

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Posted 06 August 2008 - 10:41 PM

Hi oldfashoined. :D An individual will not get a new, non-demo car for less than A-Plan, on their own. A-Plan pricing is what the Dealer actually paid Ford for the car. So that would mean they are selling a new, non demo vehicle for less than their cost.
Concerning a percentage: Again, A-Plan pricing can not be calculated in that way. I am not trying to keep a secret, it just does not work in that manner. Some members here will work in approximate numbers (and that is their right to do so if they like), I do not.

Since you are a Ford Employee, all you need to do is register for the Ford Employee AXZD-Plan website. Then you can price out any vehicle, in any Dealers Inventory and get exact A-Plan pricing.

Good luck. :beerchug:


Last month dealerships in some area's would lose 1000-1500+ to move an F-Series or Expedition. Go a week without selling a Superduty and have 80+ on the lot that you are paying interest on and you just want to move metal.