armadamaster Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 (edited) By Robert FaragoJuly 22, 2008 - Our contacts at Ford tell us there's big trouble brewing for The Blue Oval Boys. Two independent sources report that FoMoCo is ceasing production of the fresh-out-of-the-box Flex in their Oakville, Ontario plant. There's also some excellent comments about the sales flops that are the D3s from a few sharp folks and Sajeev Mehta: The "D3 curse" continues with no end in sight. Nobody wants a big car/CUV right now, and anything shaped like a gigantic brick will fail. I guess nobody figured out that the market is so saturated that a unique offering like the Flex makes it a niche car only. factor in the costs of retooling both the Chicago and Oakville for D3s and it looks really, really ugly. IIRC, the Chicago retool was $800,000,000 and Oakville (according to this blog) is a cool billion. Well said and more can be found at TTAC. P.S. I might have thrown in a choice comment myself. :stats: Flame on! Edited August 19, 2008 by Armada Master Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regfootball Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 no way they could have predicted this even 12 months ago Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igor Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 (edited) ROFL - the Flex sold 3,000 pieces in JUNE!!! I will be shocked if July number is in three figures ... SHOCKED!! As usual (and it is obvious from all Farago's pieces on Ford - he does not give single piece of damn about Ford - he hates its guts and will his best to denegrate it ... I am willing to retract this comment if I see any confirmation of this .. (I will check AutoNews and wait for Friday's numbers. Igor Edited July 27, 2008 by igor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igor Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 per Autonews, there is no overtime or closure sheduled for Oakville - Ford has built 11k Flexes since 7/1/08 no Autonews is not infallible, but I will take their word over Farago's "data" again - if Ford backs Farago on Friday, I will retract. Igor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Critic Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 (edited) As usual (and it is obvious from all Farago's pieces on Ford - he does not give single piece of damn about Ford - he hates its guts and will his best to denegrate it ... Igor You don't think he also got a car at Otis Ford, do you? Edited July 27, 2008 by Critic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igor Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 You don't think he also got a car at Otis Ford, do you?no he is just a a typical Porsche-file ... did you see the piece "Porche Panamera - an instant classic"? ROFL among doom and gloom from all angles - THAT !! yeah right objective "hard hitting" my ass Igor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regfootball Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 ROFL - the Flex sold 3,000 pieces in JUNE!!! I will be shocked if July number is in three figures ... SHOCKED!! As usual (and it is obvious from all Farago's pieces on Ford - he does not give single piece of damn about Ford - he hates its guts and will his best to denegrate it ... I am willing to retract this comment if I see any confirmation of this .. (I will check AutoNews and wait for Friday's numbers. Igor I hold a higher esteem for a 3 year old dustmop in my house then Farago and his writing, regardless if he is flaming GM, Ford, or anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regfootball Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 no he is just a a typical Porsche-file ... did you see the piece "Porche Panamera - an instant classic"? ROFL among doom and gloom from all angles - THAT !! yeah right objective "hard hitting" my ass Igor The Panamera by all views has the makings of a sedan version of toyotas pig / turd / tundra. It would figure he would be enamored with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forddaughter Posted August 1, 2008 Share Posted August 1, 2008 Doesn't help that dealers can't get them on the lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len_A Posted August 7, 2008 Share Posted August 7, 2008 There's also some excellent comments about the sales flops that are the D3s from a few sharp folks and Sajeev Mehta: Well said and more can be found at TTAC. P.S. I might have thrown in a choice comment myself. :stats: Flame on! Surprise, dumbshits at TTAC and all of their fans - that link is no good, as the thread was deleted by TTAC. Seems that they took the story about Oakville postponing the start of a third shift, which all the mainstream media reported accurately. ROFL - the Flex sold 3,000 pieces in JUNE!!! I will be shocked if July number is in three figures ... SHOCKED!! As usual (and it is obvious from all Farago's pieces on Ford - he does not give single piece of damn about Ford - he hates its guts and will his best to denegrate it ... I am willing to retract this comment if I see any confirmation of this .. (I will check AutoNews and wait for Friday's numbers. Igor Farago's anti-Ford bias is so blatant that his credibility is non-existent except with the usual anti-Detroit automaker crowd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 Doesn't help that dealers can't get them on the lot. Bill Brown Fotd in Livonia, MI must have a couple of dozen Flexes on his lot. They sure look plain without the white roof. Sort like a short Econoline ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 Bill Brown Fotd in Livonia, MI must have a couple of dozen Flexes on his lot. They sure look plain without the white roof. Sort like a short Econoline ! Some regions are chock full of them. Others hardly have any. I made a post in another thread after doing an inventory search in my area. Of the 6 local dealers I looked up, there was a TOTAL of 31 Flexes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomaro Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 28 Within a 16 mile radius of me in central NJ...one of the larger dealerships has 10 in stock. I didn't look in PA (we border the Delaware River) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extreme4x4 Posted August 10, 2008 Share Posted August 10, 2008 My local dealership just got his first Flex in last week. While he is not a large dealership, he does sell alot of cars, and has sold alot of Taurus's, and even Taurus X's (AWD is big here). So, that was a very late delivery for him. Heck, until last week, he had 1 Focus, 1 Fusion, 2 Taurus's, 1 Taurus X, and 2 Mustangs. That was it for cars. He was really hurting. He got a bunch of Foci, Fusions, and Escapes last week.............. plus the Flex. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SajeevMehta Posted August 18, 2008 Share Posted August 18, 2008 (edited) Surprise, dumbshits at TTAC and all of their fans - that link is no good, as the thread was deleted by TTAC. No, the link is still there: http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/news-from...ales-back-edge/ Maybe its going to happen. No matter, I'm still down with the quotes Armada Master took from me: the billions that should have gone to the Taurus (old), Panther chassis, etc were pissed away on the D3 platform. Nothing especially wrong with the D3, its just not want I want in a top dollar Ford...and I'm not the only one. Not by a long shot. Edited August 18, 2008 by SajeevMehta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armadamaster Posted August 19, 2008 Author Share Posted August 19, 2008 (edited) No, the link is still there: http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/news-from...ales-back-edge/ Maybe its going to happen. No matter, I'm still down with the quotes Armada Master took from me: the billions that should have gone to the Taurus (old), Panther chassis, etc were pissed away on the D3 platform. Nothing especially wrong with the D3, its just not want I want in a top dollar Ford...and I'm not the only one. Not by a long shot. Well said. Here's another TTAC article on sluggish Flex sales: TTAC-WSJ rips the Ford Flex a you-know-what Edited August 19, 2008 by Armada Master Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted August 19, 2008 Share Posted August 19, 2008 I think the biggest problem with the Flex is this...that it has alot of hype and the press is using it as a whipping boy in the light of expesive gas and are jump all over its first months sales to show how much of a "failure" it is. Its far to early to tell if the car is going to be a success or not. This is just more incidenary reporting with lots of hot air backed up by very little data... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted August 19, 2008 Share Posted August 19, 2008 Well said. Here's another TTAC article on sluggish Flex sales: TTAC-WSJ rips the Ford Flex a you-know-what The WSJ compared sales of the Explorer, which has been on the market for over 2 decades, to sales of the Flex which wasn't even available at every dealer after its first 2 months? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SajeevMehta Posted August 19, 2008 Share Posted August 19, 2008 Problem with the Flex is that its another CUV when Ford needs to reduce CUV output. Every "average" car buyer I talk to is more interested in fuel efficient sedans, even if some of them are marginally better than the Flex. But the perception is what sells. One could also argue that CUVs are a dying breed, and that Ford should stick to the niche utility products that will always have core buyers: limited production of the Explorer, for example. I expect the Explorer and Panther sales (you know, the Fords that aren't import wannabes) will continue to outpace their supposed D3 replacements. Because when you want a big Ford, you want the real thing. That said, I'm tired of Ford's big CUVs taking focus away from the real winner: the Escape. Small, looks good, extremely practical. Crank those things out and keep up with the R&D updates. Price a loaded Escape versus a Flex and you'll see why it still hits the sweet spot in the market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted August 19, 2008 Share Posted August 19, 2008 That said, I'm tired of Ford's big CUVs taking focus away from the real winner: the Escape. Small, looks good, extremely practical. Crank those things out and keep up with the R&D updates. Price a loaded Escape versus a Flex and you'll see why it still hits the sweet spot in the market. Yes, but park the Flex and Escape side-by-side and you will see why many families won't fit in an Escape. I know...we are moving from an Escape to a Flex due to a growing family. The Escape will always outsell the Flex, but honestly, if it weren't for the Flex, we would not be buying a Ford due to the need for more room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted August 19, 2008 Share Posted August 19, 2008 One could also argue that CUVs are a dying breed One making that argument would be wrong. CUV market share is still increasing, especially at Ford. I expect the Explorer and Panther sales (you know, the Fords that aren't import wannabes) will continue to outpace their supposed D3 replacements. Because when you want a big Ford, you want the real thing. The Explorer might outsell the Flex, but it is already being outsold by the Edge, which isn't far off in size either. The D3's have already outsold the Panthers several times. It's only going to get worse for the old BOF sedans. That said, I'm tired of Ford's big CUVs taking focus away from the real winner: the Escape. Small, looks good, extremely practical. Crank those things out and keep up with the R&D updates. Price a loaded Escape versus a Flex and you'll see why it still hits the sweet spot in the market. Of course the Escape sells better than the Flex. It's cheaper. That doesn't mean it's a more capable vehicle in any way. The Focus outsells the MKS too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armadamaster Posted August 20, 2008 Author Share Posted August 20, 2008 The Explorer might outsell the Flex, but it is already being outsold by the Edge, which isn't far off in size either. The D3's have already outsold the Panthers several times. It's only going to get worse for the old BOF sedans. BARELY, one month here and one month there. But IIRC, partially fleet only Panthers sales for the year are still up over the new & improved (again) D3s, which is utterly pathetic at best from a D3 standpoint. (I'm sure someone will correct me if I am wrong on those annual sales numbers.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SajeevMehta Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 (edited) One making that argument would be wrong. CUV market share is still increasing, especially at Ford. Market share is misleading when the size of the market for $25,000+ CUVs is shrinking. At least last time I checked. Ditto the sales of the Edge. The Explorer might outsell the Flex, but it is already being outsold by the Edge, which isn't far off in size either. The D3's have already outsold the Panthers several times. It's only going to get worse for the old BOF sedans. Several times? Maybe 10% of the time, depending on how intensely Ford dumps D3s into the fleet market that month. Back when I compared D3 to Panther sales (I stopped because it was getting depressing) the Panthers outsold them almost every month. This was before and after the Crown Vic went to fleet only. Of course the Escape sells better than the Flex. It's cheaper. That doesn't mean it's a more capable vehicle in any way. The Focus outsells the MKS too. That's not my point. The point is that the CUV market has changed, cars like the Flex and Edge are out of step. The Escape is the future of this genre. Plus, the Escape (and Focus since you mentioned it) are entrenched in the market. All the new D3 vehicles are boring, heavy, FWD-biased machines in a crowded market with far superior vehicles within their class. Edited August 20, 2008 by SajeevMehta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 BARELY, one month here and one month there. But IIRC, partially fleet only Panthers sales for the year are still up over the new & improved (again) D3s, which is utterly pathetic at best from a D3 standpoint. (I'm sure someone will correct me if I am wrong on those annual sales numbers.) Panthers are down for the year far more than the D3's. Consider yourself corrected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 Market share is misleading when the size of the market for $25,000+ CUVs is shrinking. At least last time I checked. Ditto the sales of the Edge. The entire automotive market is down 20%. Prove that the market share for $25K+ CUVs is shrinking by dividing the total number of $25K+ CUVs sold by the total number of vehicles sold in July 08 vs. July 07. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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