TRANSIT TO THE US?

[Edstock]

http://www.autosavant.net/2008/02/is-us-in...ds-transit.html

 

"Despite all this second-guessing inside the media, sources inside Ford’s Avon Lake plant in Ohio, which currently builds the Econoline, recently revealed that Ford is moving forward with selling the Transit in the US."

 

Sorry for the topic typo.

Edited February 19, 2008 by Edstock

[CarShark]

I know that the Transit Connect has gotten a lot of positive buzz, but everything I've read says that the Transit and Econoline are nothing alike. I would be very impressed if the next full-size Ford van was as commodious and efficient as the Transit while maintaining the value and some of the heavy-duty capability of the Econoline. After seeing the Fiesta, I wouldn't be surprised if they pulled it off.

[Admiral]

The Transit and Transit Connect would be an unstoppable commercial duo. Put the ancient Econoline to rest, bring us the Transit (just don't forget the diesels).

[igor]

I agree carshark - since last year, I have been saying that E-series and Transit do not compete directly for the same customer - maybe Ford realized it., AFAIK Avon Lake is underutilized - the Transit volume could only help that plant, and ensure its future.,

 

On the plus side, with the Transit Connect, Transit, and Econoline, Ford will have one bitchin' Van lineup. Adding to it the F150, F250, F350, F450, and the rumored small truck - that is one hell pf a lineup .

 

Igor

[suv_guy_19]

The Transit and Transit Connect would be an unstoppable commercial duo. Put the ancient Econoline to rest, bring us the Transit (just don't forget the diesels).

 

 

The Transit can do all that the E series can. It would be a bad idea to cancel it until one better van is built. As is now, they should be sold side by side.

[battyr]

The heavier E-350 is only needed for Cube Vans and construction work. A cube van are already made with the F-350. The E-350 only has a shorter wheel base. Now that the F-350 comes with 4 doors and a trailer hitch, the E-350 is not needed.. The Transit will have to come with an American size engine. Ecoboost should do, but better make a V-8 fit incase I am wrong.

[suv_guy_19]

The heavier E-350 is only needed for Cube Vans and construction work. A cube van are already made with the F-350. The E-350 only has a shorter wheel base.

 

You don't know much about the E series do you? There are 3 wheelbases for the cutaway and it can be had in E350 or 450..

 

As for the F350/450/550 are too expensive for most applications.

[Mark B. Morrow]

The Transit (full size) would be a direct competitor for the Sprinter which is larger and taller than the E-Series. I saw a Freightliner Sprinter Ambulance this morning. It was a box body with dual rear wheels. I am also starting to see more Sprinters around this area. It would be wise to begin Transit production here if there is the capacity to build it.

[battyr]

You don't know much about the E series do you? There are 3 wheelbases for the cutaway and it can be had in E350 or 450..

 

As for the F350/450/550 are too expensive for most applications.

 

My statement about the shorter wheelbase was not criticism of choice. I was only stating that since the E-350 has a cab-forward design (like all vans), it can be made with less matterial and can be made with a shorter turning radius. The lower cost for the E-350 is because 1. It is out of date. Any redesign would add development cost to the van. 2. Cab foward design reduces the amount of steal required to make a van. For a large cube van, I don't think this will add that much cost. 3. The F-150 is optioned-up to increase Fords profit. If the F-350 was optioned the same as a typical cube van it would be much cheaper.

 

If Ford stop making the E series vans, the Transit should get more sales than the E-150, Ford will lose some sales to GM for not having the E350. The E-450 is already duplicated by the F-450.

[waymondospiff]

Ford's options:

 

1. Continue selling the outdated but effective Econoline.

2. Redesign the Econoline as a "traditional" fullsize van.

3. Sell the existing Econoline and the existing Transit.

4. Redesign the Transit to "upgrade" its capabilities to fully replace both Transit and Econoline.

5. Redesign the Transit and the Econoline - market them both as work vans, one light duty and the other heavy duty.

 

Which one is highest profit? Which one is lowest cost? And how much are cost and profit linked in this equation?

 

I say go with number 4. But that's my opinion. Any others?

 

Scott

[theoldwizard]

http://www.autosavant.net/2008/02/is-us-in...ds-transit.html

 

"Despite all this second-guessing inside the media, sources inside Ford’s Avon Lake plant in Ohio, which currently builds the Econoline, recently revealed that Ford is moving forward with selling the Transit in the US."

I was pretty certain that Transit was going to show up here sometime between 2010-2012, but I wasn't certain if it was going to be built here or overseas like the Transit Connect. (BTW, the contract say the new body shop could be as much as 3-4 years out. Don't start counting your chickens yet !)

 

What Igor missed in the story was that E-Series was "dead and buried" about 5 years ago (not in the 80's). At that time Transit was to be an import. This was announced to all salaried employees at an annual meeting. It was only a massive internal email campaign that saved E-series back then. Upper management had to be told that, at that time, E-series had near 100% of the ambulance market, the mini bus market, and the Class C RV market. If they discontinued the E-series, the Transit would not likely re-capture anywhere near that market share.

 

The real question is, which models and powertrains will be built in the US. In England, there are 3 wheelbases, plus "Jumbo" (Extended Length) plus 3 roof heights. That does not include the Cut-Away or something that looks like a pickup on a Transit chassis.

 

Powertrains are even more complex. 3 different size diesels but in 8 power ranges and only one 145 hp 4 cyl gasoline engine (remember, no diesel on the Transit Connect). But you can get an axle up to 4.23:1 ratio and a governor for 60 mph. Some are FWD, some are RWD and there is even a AWD model ! I don't see Ford putting the money in the diesels to make them US compliant. We can only hope that the 4cyl will get EcoBoost and Ford will try to fit the 3.5L/3.7L EcoBoost.

 

All of this complexity, which makes the Transit so popular in Europe, goes directly against Ford NA new mandate to reduce build combination. (How many rpm's do you have to turn with a 4.10:1 axle to do 70 mph ?)

 

E-150 and E-250 may die, but I'm betting on the E-350 and E-450 living on for a long time, especially with the new "big" diesel and 6.2L Boss engines.

[theoldwizard]

Ford's options:

 

1. Continue selling the outdated but effective Econoline.

2. Redesign the Econoline as a "traditional" fullsize van.

3. Sell the existing Econoline and the existing Transit.

4. Redesign the Transit to "upgrade" its capabilities to fully replace both Transit and Econoline.

5. Redesign the Transit and the Econoline - market them both as work vans, one light duty and the other heavy duty.

With the expansion of Avon Lake guaranteed in the contract, #3 is a sure bets.

 

What do you mean by #2 ? If the E-Series is not the prototype full size van in the US, what is ?

 

E-Series just got a "freshening". Most people think it was only a new grill, but a lot of other things were changed.

 

#5. If it's not broke, don't fix it !

[Furious1Auto]

http://www.autosavant.net/2008/02/is-us-in...ds-transit.html

 

"Despite all this second-guessing inside the media, sources inside Ford’s Avon Lake plant in Ohio, which currently builds the Econoline, recently revealed that Ford is moving forward with selling the Transit in the US."

 

Sorry for the topic typo.

There are many errors in this article, first Fords effort to marry the Transit body to the E-Series frame. The transit is a unibody just like the Sprinter. We did get money allicated for a new Flex body shop to accomidate the Transit, and I talked with an engineer that told me that they already have teams of engineers working on bringing the Truck to Avon by 2011 to build a 2012 model year truck. I was also told that it would be imported before it is built in the U.S., but don't have a firm release date! Second the E-Series does not utilize the F-Series frame, because the F-Series trucks have totally boxed frames with welded through crossmembers. While the E-Series van utilizes a heavy spring steel C-Channel frame. Lastly Admiral made the statement that it would lay the E-Series to rest and nothing could be further from the truth. The E-Series will continue to be built, and if they reduced it's capacity it will remain at least in enough volume to continue supplying our cut-aways to the Ambulance and camper market. The will be building them both. As far as the pricing I would assume that it will not be as expensive as they suggest, becuase commercial vans are a very competative market. I would guess it would cost the same as or a little cheaper than the current Dodge, Freightliner, Mercedes "Sprinter" at least upon initial arrival!

With the expansion of Avon Lake guaranteed in the contract, #3 is a sure bets.

 

What do you mean by #2 ? If the E-Series is not the prototype full size van in the US, what is ?

 

E-Series just got a "freshening". Most people think it was only a new grill, but a lot of other things were changed.

 

#5. If it's not broke, don't fix it !

Most of the upgrades you would not even see unless you crawl under it or work on the Chasis line like I do. The suspention and brakes was seriously upgraded to increase the payload, and the interior redesign is already being run on a limited basis to get ready for the 09' model. The new interior is a vast improvement and mocks the Expedition. You guys will like the changes. I would snap a PIC and post it if I did not value my job, as soon as we change model years I will post some PICS. Oh yeah, they added a passenger glove box to the new design which has been absent since the last total redesign!

Edited February 19, 2008 by Furious1Auto

[Blueblood]

I would love to see the Transit here, my only issue with it is that like the TC, I think it needs a diesel engine, the small gas motors just wouldn't be up to the task of heavy workloads. I don't know how the same Hamster that powers my Focus will power a loaded TC, especially with a 4-speed auto..

[Furious1Auto]

I would love to see the Transit here, my only issue with it is that like the TC, I think it needs a diesel engine, the small gas motors just wouldn't be up to the task of heavy workloads. I don't know how the same Hamster that powers my Focus will power a loaded TC, especially with a 4-speed auto..

Ford doesn't do that in the U.S. that's Chrysler's application. They are the only ones I know of that put under powered power plants in heavy vehicles. Like four cylinders in mini vans!

[Biker16]

 

 

[Biker16]

I would love to see the Transit here, my only issue with it is that like the TC, I think it needs a diesel engine, the small gas motors just wouldn't be up to the task of heavy workloads. I don't know how the same Hamster that powers my Focus will power a loaded TC, especially with a 4-speed auto..

 

I don't care for the 2.0 4spd either. I guess The the DSG Dusrshift is not ready yet, (the08 fiesta is using the 4 spd auto too.)

 

The diesel would be great but won't pass emisions. The 2.3 or the new 2.5 isn't being used because there is no source for it in Europe,(AFAIK) in the past 7years the use of >2.0l I4 gas engines has been eliminated except for the volvo I5. ford doesn't sell large gas motors over there.

 

That said it won't stop ford from selling the 30,000 TCs they expect to sell.

 

When US production begins in 2010-2011 we will see the 2.5l and 2.0Ecoboost paired with a 5 spd or 6spd AMT/DSG.

[Furious1Auto]

 

 

I've seen these PICS before, and if I were the customer would still prefer the Full framed E-Series to the Transit cut-away. Looks like the frame on the Transit cutaway is hydoformed and intergrated into the uni-body cab. Although that is a heavy straight truck box on that transit with a dual axle. Do you know the payload on that straight truck?

[RichardJensen]

More Euro-envy.

 

Hate to say it folks, but the Transit is not a replacement for the E-Series. Ford has built the best selling work vans on two different continents for about 30 years now, and it would be foolish to suggest that the E-Series is in anyway less suited for the US market than the Transit. The E-Series has =grown up= in the US market, and offers, among other things, significantly higher GCWR & GVWR figures than the Transit. The E-Series can be fitted out in up to class 5 configurations, where the Transit maxes out barely in class 4 territory.

 

The failure of the Sprinter to capture significant market share (resulting in the cancelation of Daimler's plans to build a Sprinter plant in the US) suggests that the E-Series still offers a combined package that is more attractive to US customers than the unibody EU vans.

 

The advantage the E-Series will retain is in body builder (cab/chassis and chassis only) markets and in markets where abuse is guaranteed (first responder). The Transit is without doubt superior when it comes to people transport, and that's where I expect it to succeed.

 

At any rate, I'm going back on vacation.

[Furious1Auto]

More Euro-envy.

 

Hate to say it folks, but the Transit is not a replacement for the E-Series. Ford has built the best selling work vans on two different continents for about 30 years now, and it would be foolish to suggest that the E-Series is in anyway less suited for the US market than the Transit. The E-Series has =grown up= in the US market, and offers, among other things, significantly higher GCWR & GVWR figures than the Transit. The E-Series can be fitted out in up to class 5 configurations, where the Transit maxes out barely in class 4 territory.

 

The failure of the Sprinter to capture significant market share (resulting in the cancelation of Daimler's plans to build a Sprinter plant in the US) suggests that the E-Series still offers a combined package that is more attractive to US customers than the unibody EU vans.

 

The advantage the E-Series will retain is in body builder (cab/chassis and chassis only) markets and in markets where abuse is guaranteed (first responder). The Transit is without doubt superior when it comes to people transport, and that's where I expect it to succeed.

 

At any rate, I'm going back on vacation.

Don't foget Penske and U-Haul moving vans they are two of our biggest fleet accounts. both are set on automatic order. meaning they don't have to place an order we just build the x amount per year and figure them into the mix! The 09, will be a great year in the Econoline legacy! Edited February 20, 2008 by Furious1Auto

[theoldwizard]

...We did get money allicated for a new Flex body shop to accommodate the Transit, and I talked with an engineer that told me that they already have teams of engineers working on bringing the Truck to Avon by 2011 to build a 2012 model year truck.

This was the plan I was told a year ago.

 

I was also told that it would be imported before it is built in the U.S., but don't have a firm release date!

This is a definite "maybe". Get the market ready for a launching the US built Transit.

 

the E-Series does not utilize the F-Series frame, because the F-Series trucks have totally boxed frames with welded through cross members. While the E-Series van utilizes a heavy spring steel C-Channel frame...

Yep, I've been underneath my 2000 E150 enough that I thought the story was wrong. I'm glad a "pro" called BS on this part of the story.

 

The E-Series will continue to be built, and if they reduced it's capacity it will remain at least in enough volume to continue supplying our cut-aways to the Ambulance and camper market. The will be building them both.

I concur. While they are losing some of the mini bus market to Sprinter and some of the ambulance market to "larger" vehicles, they have near 100% of the RV market.

 

I'm betting the long wheel base and jumbo Transit don't show up in the US. At least for several years out

 

Sometimes I think Igor publishes stories with known error just so we can call BS on him over here and he can get more details.

Edited February 19, 2008 by theoldwizard

[Biker16]

More Euro-envy.

 

Hate to say it folks, but the Transit is not a replacement for the E-Series. Ford has built the best selling work vans on two different continents for about 30 years now, and it would be foolish to suggest that the E-Series is in anyway less suited for the US market than the Transit. The E-Series has =grown up= in the US market, and offers, among other things, significantly higher GCWR & GVWR figures than the Transit. The E-Series can be fitted out in up to class 5 configurations, where the Transit maxes out barely in class 4 territory.

 

The failure of the Sprinter to capture significant market share (resulting in the cancelation of Daimler's plans to build a Sprinter plant in the US) suggests that the E-Series still offers a combined package that is more attractive to US customers than the unibody EU vans.

 

The advantage the E-Series will retain is in body builder (cab/chassis and chassis only) markets and in markets where abuse is guaranteed (first responder). The Transit is without doubt superior when it comes to people transport, and that's where I expect it to succeed.

 

At any rate, I'm going back on vacation.

 

The same basic argument was used to keep the Panthers in production.

 

If ford decided to switch off the E-series and on the transit the market would adjust.

 

The reality is until they fit a large gas motor into the transit there will be a need for the E-series.

 

the goal of selling both is to punish the competition with an unbeatable 1-2 punch.

[suv_guy_19]

The same basic argument was used to keep the Panthers in production.

 

If ford decided to switch off the E-series and on the transit the market would adjust.

 

 

They would adjust...to buying Savanas and Expresses.

[Furious1Auto]

The same basic argument was used to keep the Panthers in production.

 

If ford decided to switch off the E-series and on the transit the market would adjust.

 

The reality is until they fit a large gas motor into the transit there will be a need for the E-series.

 

the goal of selling both is to punish the competition with an unbeatable 1-2 punch.

I'll bet you $50.00 through paypal that the Transit is not outfitted with a 4-5 cyclinder out of the box. My bet is that it will have the same offerings as the E-Seris and maybe a 3.7 Liter upon launch. Care to take me up on it?

Edited February 20, 2008 by Furious1Auto

[Biker16]

They would adjust...to buying Savanas and Expresses.

 

the thing about that is .... the customer would still have to redesign their product to fit the GM Vans or to fit the transit, Ford would have to offer a better product than the GM vans do.