Jump to content

Custom Search





Welcome to Blue Oval Forums


Sign In  Log in with Facebook

Create Account
Welcome to Blue Oval Forums.  LIke most online communities, you must first please register to create topics and post replies.
Registration is a quick and easy process and only takes a minute.  Be apart of Blue Oval Forums by signing in or creating an account.
  • Start new topics and reply to others
  • Subscribe to topics and forums to get email updates
  • Get your own profile page and make new friends
  • Send personal messages to other members. . .
 
Guest Message by DevFuse

Ford News Around the Web
Photo
- - - - -

What ever happened to the two speed rear end?


  • Please log in to reply
20 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   Mark B. Morrow

Mark B. Morrow

    Member

  • Blue Oval Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 7,986 posts
  • Joined 02-March 05
  • Gender:Male
  • Current Vehicle:2006 Eddie Bauer Explorer (5th EB Explorer)
  • Location:Pittsburgh, PA (Steeler City)
  • Interests:Cars
    '64 1/2 Mustang Convertible - Restomod
    '66 T-Bird Convertible - Restored
    '06 Explorer Eddie Bauer

Posted 02 January 2008 - 10:54 PM

In the article on the increase in mileage on the Super Duty, it was mentioned that the drawback in using higher gear ratios was a decrease in towing performance. That got me thinking of the Columbia two speed rear that Ford used in the 1930s. Why not resurrect this old idea and have the best of both worlds. Lower gears to be used for towing and higher gears for improved mileage the rest of the time.

http://www.hemmings...._feature21.html

'64 1/2 Mustang Convertible - 289 5 speed restomod
'66 T-Bird Convertible - restored
'06 Explorer Eddie Bauer - Dark Cherry Metallic and Pueblo Gold (My 5th EB Explorer)

I Disagree With You...But I'm Pretty Sure You're Not Hitler.
- Jon Stewart


PITTSBURGH CITY OF CHAMPIONS-PITTSBURGH STEELERS - SUPER BOWL IX, X, XII, XIV, XL, XLIII CHAMPIONS--PITTSBURGH PENGUINS - 1991, 1992 & 2009 STANLEY CUP CHAMPIONS and the PITTSBURGH PIRATES WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS 1909, 1960, 1971 & 1979 and now - After  20 consecutive losing seasons: a contender. (I hope)








Lose this advertisement by becoming a member. Click here to create a free account.

#2 OFFLINE   P71_CrownVic

P71_CrownVic

    Blue Oval Enthusiast

  • Blue Oval Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 5,265 posts
  • Joined 01-March 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cottage Grove, Minnesota

Posted 03 January 2008 - 12:11 AM

In the article on the increase in mileage on the Super Duty, it was mentioned that the drawback in using higher gear ratios was a decrease in towing performance. That got me thinking of the Columbia two speed rear that Ford used in the 1930s. Why not resurrect this old idea and have the best of both worlds. Lower gears to be used for towing and higher gears for improved mileage the rest of the time.

http://www.hemmings...._feature21.html

Because then they would have something the competition doesn't...and we can't have that.
Posted Image


So Long!

#3 OFFLINE   chromehorn

chromehorn

    New BON Member

  • Blue Oval Member
  • Pip
  • 49 posts
  • Joined 01-December 07

Posted 03 January 2008 - 12:13 AM

In the article on the increase in mileage on the Super Duty, it was mentioned that the drawback in using higher gear ratios was a decrease in towing performance. That got me thinking of the Columbia two speed rear that Ford used in the 1930s. Why not resurrect this old idea and have the best of both worlds. Lower gears to be used for towing and higher gears for improved mileage the rest of the time.

http://www.hemmings...._feature21.html



Interesting thought. I'm not familiar with the unit Ford used in the 30's, but I am familiar with the one GM used in it's trucks in the 60's. We had an old '64 GMC 2-ton farm truck which had a 2-speed rear axle. It was kind of fun to drive as a kid...rowing through all those gears just for fun. Now to be honest, I could shift through all 4 gears and stay in low range (or high range for that matter), w/o going through all of them (i.e. 1 low, 1 high, 2 low, 2 high, etc...). On only a couple of occasions that I can remember did I have such a heavy load that 4 high was too tall and needed to go to 4 low on the highway. But that may be where one potential issue is. Many people may not like having to shift alot to find the right gear for what they are doing. But at the same time, today's technology would surely be able to simplify the process. It ought to be considered as an option for those who want it. Any ideas as to how much it might cost to implement?

#4 OFFLINE   timmm55

timmm55

    Blue Oval Enthusiast

  • Blue Oval Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 3,802 posts
  • Joined 01-June 05
  • Location:SD CA
  • Interests:Cougars, other Mercurys, Fords, Lincolns

Posted 03 January 2008 - 02:09 AM

Ford had a prototype of a 2 speed rear end in a 1969 Mercury Cougar Eliminator.

#5 OFFLINE   Sixt9coug

Sixt9coug

    Ford fanboy

  • Blue Oval Member
  • PipPip
  • 2,437 posts
  • Joined 09-February 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Current Vehicle:2009 Ranger Sport, 1994 Mustang GT, 1969 Mercury Cougar
  • Location:Norwalk, CA
  • Interests:Punk Rock, good beer and hot rods. Oh, and burritos, can't forget the burritos.

Posted 03 January 2008 - 02:17 AM

yup, i have a copy of that Hot Rod around here somewhere. Too bad i dont have a scanner.
Current Rides -
1969 Mercury Cougar - 1994 Mustang GT - 2009 Ford Ranger Sport


Past Rides -
1967 Mercury Cougar - 1968 Ford Galaxie Fastback - 1969 Mercury Cougar XR7 - 1972 Ford LTD CS - 1972 Lincoln MkIV - 2004 Ford Ranger XLT -

Posted Image

Posted Image

#6 OFFLINE   silvrsvt

silvrsvt

    Bite my Shiny metal ass!

  • Blue Oval Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 14,746 posts
  • Joined 03-October 02
  • Gender:Male
  • Current Vehicle:2013 Taurus SHO/2010 Escape XLT AWD/2006 Mustang GT
  • Location:Maryland

Posted 03 January 2008 - 08:04 AM

I'd say the big reason its not used is that its too expensive and too complex at the moment? And that the theoretical savings of using it isn't as high as you would expect it to be.

"Hell, there are no rules here-- we're trying to accomplish something."
Thomas A. Edison


Ford Products owned though the years:
1986 Escort GT Race Red
1998 Mustang GT Dark Green Satin
2002 SVT Focus Satin Silver
2006 Mustang GT Tungsten Grey

2013 Taurus SHO Ruby Red

Future Fords:
20XX Explorer, Edge or Escape

 

199923.png

 

photo-thumb-15254.jpg


#7 OFFLINE   Marauder2299of7839

Marauder2299of7839

    New BON Member

  • Blue Oval Member
  • Pip
  • 117 posts
  • Joined 22-December 07

Posted 03 January 2008 - 08:08 AM

ford used an Eaton unit from the 50-70s, as well as a Rockwell unit in the 70s-80s, both in class 5-7 trucks

the problem isn't the equipment, I doubt half the Neanderthals out there could properly use them. you need to let off the throttle when shifting, and wait for it to be fully engaged before applying power again.

a fool-proof overdrive is a safer way to reduce warranty claims.

#8 OFFLINE   BigBadBflo

BigBadBflo

    New BON Member

  • Blue Oval Member
  • Pip
  • 117 posts
  • Joined 04-January 07

Posted 03 January 2008 - 08:16 AM

If they can automate the 4x4 engagement process, they should be able to the same with these.

#9 OFFLINE   MERKURXR4Ti

MERKURXR4Ti

    New BON Member

  • Blue Oval Member
  • Pip
  • 494 posts
  • Joined 08-May 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Long Beach, CA
  • Interests:Chicks, alcohol, and toys.

Posted 03 January 2008 - 08:48 AM

True but the complexity is still there, and with 5-6spd trannies the savings will hardly be worth the engineering effort.
Gone to the dark side.
Perhaps when Ford makes a Z06 I'll be back

#10 OFFLINE   NLPRacing

NLPRacing

    Blue Oval Enthusiast

  • Blue Oval Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 3,709 posts
  • Joined 24-October 00
  • Gender:Male
  • Current Vehicle:2001 Ford Mustang GT Convertible
  • Location:Arlington, Texas

Posted 03 January 2008 - 08:55 AM

Instead of a 2 speed axle, how about one of these Under/Overdrive units? I've been seriously considering one for my motorhome. Does anybody have any experience with them?

GEAR VENDORS UNDER/OVERDRIVE™

Art

Current/Recent Fords:
2001 Ford Mustang GT Convertible 4.6L V8 (Purchased New 10/01, will probably keep forever)
2001 Ford F150 SuperCrew 4x4 Lariat 5.4L V8 (Purchased New 06/00 - Sold 06/01/11)
2007 Ford Expedition EL Eddie Bauer 5.4L V8 (Purchased New 05/28/07)
2004 Ford F53 Chassis 6.8L V10 under my 2005 GBM 3500DS Motorhome (Purchased New 10/04 - Sold 09/12/12, replaced with a 2013 Kodiak 300BHSL in 10/12)
2013 Ford Escape Titanium FWD 2.0L EB (Company Car, took delivery on 09/20/12)

2014 Ford Fusion Titanium 2.0L EB (Company Car, took delivery on 10/16/14)
1995 Ford F150 SuperCab XLT 5.0L V8 (Purchased Used 10/05/12)

Potential Future FoMoCo Products:
2007 Ford Explorer Sport Trac SVT Adrenalin 4.6L V8 Supercharged (Cancelled, never built, R.I.P.)
Something to replace our 2007 Ford Expedition EL in the next couple of years, that can tow around 10,000 pounds, seat at least 7 comfortably and has all or some of Ford's latest tech (MFT, trailer sway, trailer brake controller, BLIS, adaptive cruise control, etc.).  Maybe the all new 2017 Ford Expedition EL as early as possible in 2016.

Facebook

They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security. --Benjamin Franklin


#11 OFFLINE   theoldwizard

theoldwizard

    Retired

  • Blue Oval Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 4,496 posts
  • Joined 06-February 03
  • Gender:Male
  • Current Vehicle:'98 E150
  • Location:SE MI
  • Interests:Cars, computers, boats

Posted 03 January 2008 - 08:57 AM

True but the complexity is still there, and with 5-6spd trannies the savings will hardly be worth the engineering effort.

We have a winner !

#12 OFFLINE   Ralph Greene

Ralph Greene

    Member

  • Blue Oval Member
  • PipPip
  • 1,506 posts
  • Joined 03-February 01
  • Interests:Cars

Posted 03 January 2008 - 09:05 AM

Don't 6 and 7 speed electronically controlled current automatics do the same thing? The 6 speed Aisin in my wife's Montego has a very low 1st gear and a very tall 6th gear allowing 30 hiway MPG, allowing the use of a small engine (which Ford was criticized for and folks on here didn't understand the intelligence behind). Of course, it won't tow because of low tq engine. But in trucks, it could, if mated to proper engine and chassis. It would be easy to just keep it in one gear down from top, like my Explorer does with button on end of shift leaver.

Also....some of the manual 6 speeds (T 56's as an example), for heavy duty applications like Viper, have a .5 6th, for low RPM cruising. Then use 1-1 (4th) or .8 to 1 (5th) for towing.

The 2 speed rear really isn't needed anymore for light to medium duty use. But in heavy duty trucks, mayso so.

Edited by Ralph Greene, 03 January 2008 - 10:12 AM.

Ralph Greene

I buy Ford Motor Company Vehicles when they make what I want.

2012 Ford Edge

#13 OFFLINE   old_fairmont_wagon

old_fairmont_wagon

    It's worked so far, but we're not out yet!

  • Blue Oval Member
  • PipPip
  • 2,325 posts
  • Joined 16-April 03
  • Gender:Male
  • Current Vehicle:2011 Corolla LE
  • Location:New Orleans, LA, USA
  • Interests:Cars and Computers

Posted 03 January 2008 - 11:46 AM

My dad had one of thise Under Drive / Overdrive setups on his heavily modified 72 F-100 (Can't remember if it was a beefed up C4 or a C6 in there behind a 390FE with towing cams and a moderate overboar). It worked fairly well. It helped with towing the trailer in the mountains and with puttering around town. Didn't give us any problems while we had it. It was still on the truck when it was sold a long time ago.

*************************************************

R.I.P. Nick! :(

*************************************************

Currently Owned:

2011 Toyota Corolla LE (automotive appliance at its most basic)

2007 Toyota Sienna CE (3.5L V6 from the Camry makes it move! Insane number of cup holders. Better mpg than the caravan.)

Previously:

2002 Dodge Caravan Sport (The v6 has some grunt however bad the reliability of the rest of the van is)
2006 Corolla S (Good ride, good handling, great gas mileage, 26K flawless miles at trade)
1999 F-150 ext cab, short bed, v6, auto 50K flawless miles at trade-in
1993 Ford Tempo GL (The GL stood for Good Luck getting where you're going)
1992 Honda Accord LX (decent reliability to 90K miles, then it started to fall apart)
1985 Ford LTD (the little fox chasis one, with the dog of a 3.8L)
1978 Ford Fairmont Wagon (it came with a small inline six, it left with a monster...)


#14 OFFLINE   theVengineguy

theVengineguy

    Member

  • Blue Oval Member
  • Pip
  • 104 posts
  • Joined 31-March 04

Posted 03 January 2008 - 09:33 PM

Think of system complexity. If i have two devices varrying ratios, what does that do to my FMEA, calibration, etc. So lets say you mate it to a 4R100, that gives you 8 speeds, which gives you better resolution on the gross power curve of the engine. But are you gonna argue by ditching 2 points on the gross power curve in favor of one device that varries ratios? I can see something like that for a tractor, but for an everyday driver no. I wouldn't want something to be so shift busy around the city, you would get ratios for take off at like 15-16:1, so probably 90% of the time, that ratio would be skipped, or be engaged for like a second. And think of all the ratios you skip over when you get to say 40-50mph. Even if you have an automatic, you can still lock and unlock your torque converter, so in torque multiplication terms that gives you 16 torque ratio outputs. Once again, you get the loss from the converter, but the torque multiplication options are still there. Hold the KISS principal... KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID.
Ford has did have a better idea.

#15 ONLINE   xr7g428

xr7g428

    Some people get paid to think...

  • Blue Oval Member
  • PipPip
  • 2,466 posts
  • Joined 24-February 05
  • Location:Arizona, (surface of the sun)

Posted 03 January 2008 - 09:54 PM

I would buy this for my '05 F150. I would love to have a low range for pulling in the mountains, and a high range for highway driving with just passengers on board. Maybe with the six speed automatic it might be just the same, but with the current transmission, towing in the mountains with a load means a lot of second gear driving. I'd prefer to have a little more flexibility.

blueovalforums.com/forums/uploads/profile/photo-thumb-15254.jpg" />

 

Goodbye my friend...

RIP Nick.


#16 OFFLINE   Marauder2299of7839

Marauder2299of7839

    New BON Member

  • Blue Oval Member
  • Pip
  • 117 posts
  • Joined 22-December 07

Posted 05 January 2008 - 11:12 PM

Think of system complexity. If i have two devices varrying ratios, what does that do to my FMEA, calibration, etc. So lets say you mate it to a 4R100, that gives you 8 speeds, which gives you better resolution on the gross power curve of the engine. But are you gonna argue by ditching 2 points on the gross power curve in favor of one device that varries ratios? I can see something like that for a tractor, but for an everyday driver no. I wouldn't want something to be so shift busy around the city, you would get ratios for take off at like 15-16:1, so probably 90% of the time, that ratio would be skipped, or be engaged for like a second. And think of all the ratios you skip over when you get to say 40-50mph. Even if you have an automatic, you can still lock and unlock your torque converter, so in torque multiplication terms that gives you 16 torque ratio outputs. Once again, you get the loss from the converter, but the torque multiplication options are still there. Hold the KISS principal... KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID.


if we were keeping it simple we would still be using C-4s and C-6s

I agree that for the typical driver neither the OD/UD or the 2-sp axle makes a lot of sence.
however there are a lot of non-typical drivers that could make use of 8-10 speeds.

#17 OFFLINE   Furious1Auto

Furious1Auto

    Blue Oval Enthusiast

  • Blue Oval Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 7,327 posts
  • Joined 18-April 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Indastix, OH

Posted 05 January 2008 - 11:37 PM

In the article on the increase in mileage on the Super Duty, it was mentioned that the drawback in using higher gear ratios was a decrease in towing performance. That got me thinking of the Columbia two speed rear that Ford used in the 1930s. Why not resurrect this old idea and have the best of both worlds. Lower gears to be used for towing and higher gears for improved mileage the rest of the time.

http://www.hemmings...._feature21.html

I think that is a great idea, as long as they don't lose durability in the process! I two speed rear end makes a 4 speed tranny into a 8 speed, the extra gears they would gain could be spec'ed based on it's application. Good call Mark B. Morrow!
If you pay bananas, you get monkeys

Posted by Furious1Auto's iPhone

#18 OFFLINE   fordtion

fordtion

    Blue Oval Member

  • Blue Oval Member
  • Pip
  • 160 posts
  • Joined 10-June 04
  • Gender:Male
  • Current Vehicle:2013 Taurus Limited
  • Location:Eastern NC

Posted 06 January 2008 - 12:13 AM

Instead of a 2 speed axle, how about one of these Under/Overdrive units? I've been seriously considering one for my motorhome. Does anybody have any experience with them?

GEAR VENDORS UNDER/OVERDRIVE™

I had a US Gears under drive in a 1999/2000 F-450, works well when towing a 40 ft car hauler. It kept the diesel in the sweet range.

Then I installed US gear under drive in a a 2001 Lightning,thay was a of time and money.

With these 6 and 7 speed trannys coming about, I see no no need for a 2 speed axle or any type under drive....JMO

#19 OFFLINE   Furious1Auto

Furious1Auto

    Blue Oval Enthusiast

  • Blue Oval Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 7,327 posts
  • Joined 18-April 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Indastix, OH

Posted 07 January 2008 - 12:56 AM

I had a US Gears under drive in a 1999/2000 F-450, works well when towing a 40 ft car hauler. It kept the diesel in the sweet range.

Then I installed US gear under drive in a a 2001 Lightning,thay was a of time and money.

With these 6 and 7 speed trannys coming about, I see no no need for a 2 speed axle or any type under drive....JMO

The more the merrier! Extra gears at higher speeds reduce RPM's and save fuel, while extra gears on the low end improve pulling/towing capabilities. I've driven construction trucks with deep reduction gears and highway trucks with as many as 18 gears. I can tell by your use of the words "sweet spot" that you are/were a trucker! A two speed offering is a low cost way to offer different gear ratios capable of handling different applications in comparison to the cost of designing new transmissions.
If you pay bananas, you get monkeys

Posted by Furious1Auto's iPhone

#20 OFFLINE   commandermike

commandermike

    New BON Member

  • Blue Oval Member
  • Pip
  • 1 posts
  • Joined 26-April 11
  • Gender:Male
  • Current Vehicle:1969 Mercury Marauder
  • Location:Mississippi
  • Interests:Old classic Ford and Mercury's

Posted 26 April 2011 - 08:49 PM

Ford had a prototype of a 2 speed rear end in a 1969 Mercury Cougar Eliminator.

hi they did offer this rear end in the boss mustang and cougar eliminator...i ran across one that was in a 1969 Boss 302 Eliminator it had a switch on the Hurst shifter.