2009 Escape/Mariner/Tribute

[ds91776]

Now, rumours for months and months have speculated that in 09 the Escape Triplets will get the PIP version of the Duratec 30 V6. It was also rumored that this engine would be in the Fusion Triplets. However, more recent rumors say that the Fusion and Milan will get the Duratec 35 V6 afterall. Does this mean the PIP was canceled, or is it just going to be for the Escape etc? Also, wil the escape get a new the new 2.5I4 in the 2009 Fusion as well as the Fusion's transmissions? I have long been intereseted in an Escape and I really like the design of the Mariner and Escape for 2008 and would love to see its engines updated to last until the 2012 Kuga-Escape debuts.

 

1 D30 V6PIP 240-250hp?

 

2. 2.5I4 170-190?

 

Does anybody (Igor I'm asking you) know what will happen?

[igor]

I believe the PIP will be kept alive for the Escape - also the D35 for the Fusion will not be available until the Fall - the PIP might be used as a carryover.

 

Igor

[silvrsvt]

I believe the PIP will be kept alive for the Escape - also the D35 for the Fusion will not be available until the Fall - the PIP might be used as a carryover.

 

Igor

 

 

Is next fall when we'll see the restyled Fusion also?

[MGallun]

I believe the PIP will be kept alive for the Escape - also the D35 for the Fusion will not be available until the Fall - the PIP might be used as a carryover.

 

Igor

 

and whats the reason why escape dont get a 6 speed and 3.5?? too small chassis?

[igor]

Is next fall when we'll see the restyled Fusion also?

09 Fusion to go Job1 in the spring

 

and whats the reason why escape dont get a 6 speed and 3.5?? too small chassis?

 

that is what we were told - it will not fit .. apparently that is the reason why Mazda6 was postponed a year and switched to EUCD - the D35 and 6speed was a pain for them (although it seems to work just fine for MKZ .. )

 

Igor

[silvrsvt]

that is what we were told - it will not fit .. apparently that is the reason why Mazda6 was postponed a year and switched to EUCD - the D35 and 6speed was a pain for them (although it seems to work just fine for MKZ .. )

 

Thats a bit assbackwards...

 

CD3-already has a 6 speed and 3.5L V6

EUCD-no V6 in FOE designs...hmmmm

[LincolnFan]

IIRC, the Aisin unit used in the Ford CD3s is a compact one. The 6F is physically larger than it. Maybe Mazda went with the 6F this gen instead and redesigned the EUCD front a bit?

 

Or this could be just like the CX-7 case, Mazda mixed and matched parts from everywhere.

[silvrsvt]

IIRC, the Aisin unit used in the Ford CD3s is a compact one. The 6F is physically larger than it. Maybe Mazda went with the 6F this gen instead and redesigned the EUCD front a bit?

 

Well I'd be willing to bet money that the 09 Fusion can fit the 6F in it, which prob cheaper then using the Aisin unit.

[igor]

Thats a bit assbackwards...

 

CD3-already has a 6 speed and 3.5L V6

EUCD-no V6 in FOE designs...hmmmm

it fits into EUCD .. it is just not offered on actual vehicles .. since EU does not really like V6 in mid-size sedans .

 

Igor

[Shawn704]

Igor, so you are definitely saying that the Mazda 6 is indeed a derivative of the EUCD? With it and all having double wishbone tower design?

[FordBuyer]

Now, rumours for months and months have speculated that in 09 the Escape Triplets will get the PIP version of the Duratec 30 V6. It was also rumored that this engine would be in the Fusion Triplets. However, more recent rumors say that the Fusion and Milan will get the Duratec 35 V6 afterall. Does this mean the PIP was canceled, or is it just going to be for the Escape etc? Also, wil the escape get a new the new 2.5I4 in the 2009 Fusion as well as the Fusion's transmissions? I have long been intereseted in an Escape and I really like the design of the Mariner and Escape for 2008 and would love to see its engines updated to last until the 2012 Kuga-Escape debuts.

 

1 D30 V6PIP 240-250hp?

 

2. 2.5I4 170-190?

 

Does anybody (Igor I'm asking you) know what will happen?

 

There are six test Escapes/Mariners running Hines Drive just about everyday in tandem and it looks to me like they are testing new drivetrains with them. They seem pretty peppy and must be sporting new 6 speed trans and more hp from engines. Some are V6's and some are I4's. I would say they are testing new I4 also. They are really putting the miles on this fleet, that's for sure. Ford testers and others seem to love Hines Drive and you see a lot of test mules using the street. Ford testers especially like to run Hines from Dearborn to Northville and back.

[rkisler]

it fits into EUCD .. it is just not offered on actual vehicles .. since EU does not really like V6 in mid-size sedans .

 

Igor

 

I'm not sure how an Escape conversation turned into CD platform discussion...

 

Igor, I do not agree with this statement. The EUCD in its pure form (Mondeo, Galaxy, S Max) can not accomodate a V6.

 

One of the primary reasons for Europe deciding to go their own way on the EUCD rather than adopting the CD3 was the lack of importance of the V6 to their lineup. The Mundano had a V6 offering which was reviewed well, but was not a success in the marketplace (at that price level, most customers went for the BMW I4 instead).

 

Europe decided to go their own way because they believed they could get greater cost efficiencies by basing the EUCD on the C1 platform. They were able to get economies of scale with C1 components, and they were able to utilize a cheaper suspension system than CD3. When they did that, they precluded packaging of a V6 and had to go with straight engines only. Which means the best they can do right now is I4/I5 or maybe the Volvo short I6 (if Volvo agreed).

 

Some might argue that the Volvo S80 is a EUCD and it packages a Yamaha 60 degree powertrain. I cannot say for certain, but I am betting that this model is a hybrid of the prior P2 and EUCD, and the front structure is completely different. And for those that think the Volvo S80 is a EUCD and that EUCD is the "cat's meow", I would urge them to read the reviews of the on-the-road performance of the S80 which have ranged from lukewarm to scathing.

 

Also off topic, but I don't believe that Mazda will split their platform for the M6. I don't see any advantage to Mazda short sheeting the CD3 and going to EUCD at this point. There's going to have to be a lot of hard work reconciling these platforms, and I would think the logical time to do that would be in the 2012 time period. Just picking up the EUCD without accomodating a large V6 would be a disaster in NA.

[waymondospiff]

09 Fusion to go Job1 in the spring

that is what we were told - it will not fit .. apparently that is the reason why Mazda6 was postponed a year and switched to EUCD - the D35 and 6speed was a pain for them (although it seems to work just fine for MKZ .. )

 

I don't see any advantage to Mazda short sheeting the CD3 and going to EUCD at this point. There's going to have to be a lot of hard work reconciling these platforms, and I would think the logical time to do that would be in the 2012 time period. Just picking up the EUCD without accomodating a large V6 would be a disaster in NA.

 

Igor, I agree with Austin. I've seen nothing to indicate a switch to the (less-sophisticated, natch) EUCD chassis for the next Mazda6. I'm not saying it's untrue, but it's at least illogical. Can you point to data/source for this?

 

For the topic at hand, 3.0L PIP - I have yet to see a compellin reason why Ford would spend money for an engine that WON'T DO ANYTHING BETTER THAN CURRENT ENGINES IN THE LINEUP. The 3.0L PIP won't perform as well as the 3.5L. The 3.5L was designed to be 1. compact - so it would fit into a 3.0L space and 2. inexpensive to build - and I believe it's actually cheaper for Ford to build 3.5Ls than 3.0Ls. I've heard time and again that Ford is capacity limited for the 3.5L currently, but if Ford is going to retool the 3.0L line (lines?) for the PIP why not just retool them for the 3.5L? It just doesn't make sense.

 

Except in one way: *if* the 3.0L PIP could return EXCELLENT fuel mileage, say 31-32 mpg hwy in the Fusion, then "yes" I see a reason to keep it. But other than that? Drop it and build the better 3.5L.

 

Scott

[TomServo92]

Igor, I agree with Austin. I've seen nothing to indicate a switch to the (less-sophisticated, natch) EUCD chassis for the next Mazda6. I'm not saying it's untrue, but it's at least illogical. Can you point to data/source for this?

 

For the topic at hand, 3.0L PIP - I have yet to see a compellin reason why Ford would spend money for an engine that WON'T DO ANYTHING BETTER THAN CURRENT ENGINES IN THE LINEUP. The 3.0L PIP won't perform as well as the 3.5L. The 3.5L was designed to be 1. compact - so it would fit into a 3.0L space and 2. inexpensive to build - and I believe it's actually cheaper for Ford to build 3.5Ls than 3.0Ls. I've heard time and again that Ford is capacity limited for the 3.5L currently, but if Ford is going to retool the 3.0L line (lines?) for the PIP why not just retool them for the 3.5L? It just doesn't make sense.

 

Except in one way: *if* the 3.0L PIP could return EXCELLENT fuel mileage, say 31-32 mpg hwy in the Fusion, then "yes" I see a reason to keep it. But other than that? Drop it and build the better 3.5L.

 

Scott

 

Since the PIP 3.0 is actually being developed for the Escape (the 3.5L/6 speed combo won't fit), why not build enough for the Fusion until the 3.5L goes in the '09 model?

[suv_guy_19]

Since the PIP 3.0 is actually being developed for the Escape (the 3.5L/6 speed combo won't fit), why not build enough for the Fusion until the 3.5L goes in the '09 model?

 

 

If its easy to do (as in switch) then yes, if not then I would say no.

[TomServo92]

If its easy to do (as in switch) then yes, if not then I would say no.

 

According to Blue II, that's the current plan with the reason being that 3.5L production isn't high enough yet.

Edited September 29, 2007 by TomServo92

[kevinb120]

I was thoroughly disappointed the D30/6-speed from the Fusion was not implemented on the new Escape, and the $10 saved going BACK to drums. What a surprise, those became quick fodder for the new 08 in the press. Would of been virtually perfect launch if they had half a brain. The damage as done, changing it next year still will not stop 90% of online shoppers seeing the original 08 reviews instead of the upgraded ones for the next few years. And of course the all-knowing decision to reduce Hybrid output to only 3% of total builds made a whole lot of sense too, now you can't keep one in stock. "this is the 3rd dealer without a hybrid Escape I've tried today, oh well, off to the Toyota dealer".... Give it 800 possible options combos and not even have as many on the ground in the nation at one time-great plan. As for it not fitting, under the hood of an Escape has about 2 golf-bag's(the standard Ford unit of measure) worth of room in there..

Edited September 29, 2007 by kevinb120

[TomServo92]

I was thoroughly disappointed the D30/6-speed from the Fusion was not implemented on the new Escape, and the $10 saved going BACK to drums. What a surprise, those became quick fodder for the new 08 in the press. Would of been virtually perfect launch if they had half a brain. The damage as done, changing it next year still will not stop 90% of online shoppers seeing the original 08 reviews instead of the upgraded ones for the next few years. And of course the all-knowing decision to reduce Hybrid output to only 3% of total builds made a whole lot of sense too, now you can't keep one in stock. "this is the 3rd dealer without a hybrid Escape I've tried today, oh well, off to the Toyota dealer".... Give it 800 possible options combos and not even have as many on the ground in the nation at one time-great plan.

 

Supposedly the 6-speed won't fit in the current Escape. However, there is no excuse for the drum brakes.

[kevinb120]

Heh I was editing:

 

As for it not fitting, under the hood of an Escape has about 2 golf-bag's(the standard Ford unit of measure) worth of room in there.

 

There's plenty of room in there. Thats another bullshit Ford excuse for sayin "GOOD 'NUF-LET'R EAT!"

 

Well if they do decide to upgrade to a 400hp 45mpg turbosuperchargedV6 with 10 speed auto for the same price or whatever they decide for models 18 months out, shouldn't it be time to put it up front and center on their website by now to make sure everyone shopping for a curent new Ford now knows its only a year and a half away to a better vehicle?

 

I wonder how many Explorer/Freestyle/Expy/Escape/Edge sales are on hold because the big shining Flex dominates the website. Probably twice the number of 07 Focus and 06/07 500 sales squashed by other Fordvehicles.com announcements... Ford needs to live in the now and stop validating itself by what it can do in the future. If the world runs in droves to scoop up 20-year outdated corollas that make mega profit because the legacy costs were absorbed by '93, obviously Ford needs to re-think its marketing strategy JUST a tad.

Edited September 29, 2007 by kevinb120

[ANTAUS]

Yeah we all know how many times Ford says "It dont fit"...

 

They said that about the 4.6L into the last generation Mustang, when the 5.0L was being used. They said the same about the 5.0L into the Explorer when only the 4.0L V6 would fit, and again with the 5.0L on a Ranger (after market), when the 4.0L is all it supposedly could fit.

 

Supposedly the 3.5L is about the same size if not a bit more compact than the 3.0L. And supposedly the Aisin Tranny is being used along with the 3.5L in the MKZ (for whatever reason)

 

I'm not buying it...

[Pioneer]

So, let's get this straight. You can get a 4.6L, 5.0L, or even a 351 into a Focus with no cutting but you can't fit a 3.5L V6 into an Escape?

[TomServo92]

So, let's get this straight. You can get a 4.6L, 5.0L, or even a 351 into a Focus with no cutting but you can't fit a 3.5L V6 into an Escape?

 

The official line from Ford is that the 6 speed transmission won't fit, not the 3.5L.

[kevinb120]

Yeah we all know how many times Ford says "It dont fit"...

 

They said that about the 4.6L into the last generation Mustang, when the 5.0L was being used. They said the same about the 5.0L into the Explorer when only the 4.0L V6 would fit, and again with the 5.0L on a Ranger (after market), when the 4.0L is all it supposedly could fit.

 

Supposedly the 3.5L is about the same size if not a bit more compact than the 3.0L. And supposedly the Aisin Tranny is being used along with the 3.5L in the MKZ (for whatever reason)

 

I'm not buying it...

 

 

I'm with ant on this one, the 'official line' is more like a skidmark

[ANTAUS]

Wasn't the new JV 6F supposedly just about the same size as the Aisin unit is replacing? I mean, that's what they bragged about on the official press release. And to add, I remember them stating that it was about the same size as the 4speed units currently being used, while being XX% more fuel efficient and using XX% less parts.

[RichardJensen]

has anyone, on the record, said the 3.5+6 doesn't fit in the Escape?