Bring Back The Thunderbird (Mustang derived)

[wescoent]

"BTW, I vote for a 4-seat, 2-door personal luxury coupe Thunderbird in the vein of the early-to-mid 60's cars (the "bullet" 'birds). Bigger than a Mustang, but smaller than a Taurus. "

 

That made me think of the original T-Bird, as the 55 was derived from the 55 Ford SEDAN. It was lowered, chopped, shortened, but the same chassis basically.

 

The current version of the 55 SEDAN would be a 500/Taurus. So that's where I started from. I imagine it as a 4WD with a SC 3.7 V6 or a V8 possibly. 4 passenger with a removeable toneau Sports Roadster cover.

 

Straight-up, I'd buy that car tommorrow if it were on sale.

[Ford Jellymoulds]

What else can you say other than it’s awesome, and bring back the T-Bird, and bring it to Europe as well, convertibles don’t come any better than a T-Bird. Sadly Ford worries more about brand image these days, more than selling cars & making profits. Very much like Rover did in the 70’s, thinking it was much safer to build bland dull cars, how so very weak minded.

 

Only a good image will do at Ford, off to a good start then?

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/autoexpr...ford_focus.html

 

If Ford had killed of the Mustang they would have lost a lot of revenue that they now earn, that they get from the high profit margin classic. Mustang has known opposition in the US because it is so bloody good. I sitting on the computer at work the other day, and a colleague noticed l was looking in at the Blue Oval, and noticed a photo of the T-Bird, and said that was the best car Ford ever made, l was just surprised by how deep it was in the conscience of somebody in the UK, as we never got the T-Bird over here.

 

Rave reviews

http://www.whatcar.com/car-review-readers....?RT=891&U=0

 

Modern day Ford sadly are not interest anymore in what would sell well, image and brand are all important. They seem to have cash to burn on rubbish like the Ford Focus convertible 1,000’s of which are stuck in Dagenham, 7 months after going on sale, customers are still waiting for the bland boredom due to it roof leaks like a sieve, and has got be totally redesigned. If Ford had done the T-Bird as Fords “global car” convertible it would have also had no competition because its so bloody good.

 

Still waiting? Brand Image is everything? Customers love it?

http://www.topgear.co.uk/news/2007/03/29/f...oupe-cabriolet/

 

Ford are performing the worst in the Camry market where they are doing a head to head, with an equally bland car Ford are losing here badly, they need to break the mould.

 

Bring back the King, wake up Ford!!

Edited July 29, 2007 by Ford Jellymoulds

[Watchdevil]

Nickleback loves the Thunderbird... Nice photo attached here as if it was photographed for a brochure or advertising...

 

 

It's a shame for has abandoned the legend. I see people in late model Thunderbirds all over the place that love them...

 

My best friend loves them as much as I do. Matter of fact we both enjoyed the same model Thunderbirds, a 1985 and the MN-12. He said the only thing that would make him trade his GTI right now is for Ford to make a new Thunderbird.

 

I don't see as much actual retro going into a future Thunderbird. I can see key heritage inspired design cues used on a fresh contemporary all new surfacing and proportions. A beaked nose with browed lamps and a low grille, the fender vents (which are all the rage now anyway), full-width taillamps lit from side to side, a thick C-pillar and a modern interpetation of the famous dual cockpit interiors of the past. I would like to think of it as looking like a progressive evolution from the 1997 four seater.

 

This is pretty much how the Thunderbird changed from generation to generation keeping the identifiable cues while introducing the latest body styling trends which are relavent to proportions and fresher surfacing.

 

There are Thunder names tradmarked by Ford recently which I am saving for a new thread...

Edited July 29, 2007 by Watchdevil

[timmm55]

No... the nose is too bullet-bird retro. We need a modern interpetation.

 

The 61-63 Bullet Bird was the most aerodynamic and cleanest looking IMHO. It lends itself best to a modern interpretation with plexi covered headlights and a flexible front facia, basically a bottom breather. This one has a bit of the Messenger in it.

 

What hurt the last roadster was the somewhat "bugged" headlights and not having an engine that was as "modified friendly" as a 5.0 or 4.6. I still like them.

[Watchdevil]

The 61-63 Bullet Bird was the most aerodynamic and cleanest looking IMHO. It lends itself best to a modern interpretation with plexi covered headlights and a flexible front facia, basically a bottom breather. This one has a bit of the Messenger in it.

 

What hurt the last roadster was the somewhat "bugged" headlights and not having an engine that was as "modified friendly" as a 5.0 or 4.6. I still like them.

 

Personally the bugged canted back headlamps never bothered me on the last generation Bird...

 

If you read the history of the development of the 2002 Thunderbird they really struggled getting the right look. They kept trying literal interpetations and more upright lamp orientations and they just made the proposals look old and dated. So they decided to cant the round lamps front and rear and make them matching bookend designs and still give the car a look that makes it look like the headlamps tunnel through to the rear like jet engines.

 

Speaking of old looking design, I still have problems with the front of the Mustang looking old. I thought to myself when I saw the production front compared to the concept front, it looked like something old from the 1970's like a cross between a 1973 and 74-78 Mustang. The problem is the bumper shelf sticks out real chunky and the grille height is too tall, not to mention the grille's outline is too rectangular and sqaured off. I keep wanting to fix it which is something I hate feeling every time I look at a car design. The Gugiuaro Mustang is on the right track to correct some visual imbalances on the front end.

 

 

I completely agree the original Bullet Bird was indeed one of the most beautiful clean designs ever. I can only imagine the impact the look had only a year or two after all those stodgy upright designs of the late 1950's suddenly disappeared for a lower linear look. However applying the same exact look is gonna instantly make a new Thunderbird look very dated and old like it's nothing new. Sometimes classic cars look their most beautiful in it's original pure form. It's very rare a retro concept can capture the same essence of an era gone by like the Forty Nine Concept and Holden Efijy was able to do.

 

I have thought for a long time that the Mercury Messenger concept is a work of art. It's bullet nose and beveled lines artfully blended with some softness in the right places. Cut that damnned roof off the Messenger and you have a good new Bullet Bird convertible. There are some details that would need to be tweaked for it to work... Mostly getting the Mercury-ness out of the front end by eliminating the vertical strakes in the headlamps and changing the split grille to a centered mouthy Thunderbird style. Get the power dome hood lines interpeted right. Change the taillamps to reflect a Thunderbird theme that stretches full-width. The big fender extractors and sculpted bodysides can stay intact. They are dramatic in a way that is stronger and more purposeful than any previous Tbird design. It sure beats the hell out of the last Tbird's slab sided featureless doors and bodysides which has character lines virtually lifted from the MN-12 Birds that looks like it was modified to roll in at the beltline .

 

The thing about that Messenger nose is it can be skewed and stretched to fit any scale car that the Thunderbird decides to be, whether it is a smaller than Mustang roadster or a bigger than Mustang true four passenger vehicle.

 

I went back and looked at various wallpaper sized photos of the Messenger and I just love it... It evokes instant lust and appreciation of beauty.

 

I hate the interior of the Messenger though. That dash sucks.

 

I keep seeing examples of the MN-12 Thunderbirds and they are still very attractive today, especially since designs have shfter to edgier more angular designs. I was absolutely blown away when I found a used virtually pristine condition bright red 1997 Tbird with a V8. I just wish I had the cash to snap it up!

 

I do believe I am more passionate about Thunderbirds than any car made... Even more passionate than Mustangs which right now I am absolutely bored with.

 

Thinking about Thunderbirds is like thinking about a long lost love that never faded...

Edited July 30, 2007 by Watchdevil

[Meelaan]

The 61-63 Bullet Bird was the most aerodynamic and cleanest looking IMHO. It lends itself best to a modern interpretation with plexi covered headlights and a flexible front facia, basically a bottom breather. This one has a bit of the Messenger in it.

 

What hurt the last roadster was the somewhat "bugged" headlights and not having an engine that was as "modified friendly" as a 5.0 or 4.6. I still like them.

 

I actually really like your concept drawing here. Good thought process. Good proportions and just enough historical motifs to avoid being a campy retro zombie.

[timmm55]

"I do believe I am more passionate about Thunderbirds than any car made... Even more passionate than Mustangs which right now I am absolutely bored with."

 

Not me, I enjoy it weekly! :happy feet:

[wescoent]

 

If Ford builds a modern version of this, I'll write a check.

 

Frankly, if Ford builds any new Thunderbird, I'll write a check.

[joihan777]

Take the drivetrain/chassis of a S197 Mustang, the skin and sumptuousness of the last T-Bird, give it some modern aggressiveness and make sure an MB SLK 350 is along to ensure proper execution and you'd have a heckova Thunderbird!

(I'm going with 2-seat roadster, Ford has nothing in this segment and the original 55 was a 2-seater as well)

Some names/ packages I've been fantasizing about:

 

Thunderbird Cruiser - DT 3.5 DFI V6

Thunderbird Cruiser Sante Fe - TF V6

Thunderbird GT - 4.6 V8

Thunderbird GT Lightning - TF V8

Thunderbird Executor - (All black ext/int. w/nickel appts., menacing exhaust etc. (As in Lord Vaders' personal transportation))

 

(Ford I'll take a Cruiser in Skye Blue/ Parchment Leather interior with brushed nickel trim with all the bells & whistles!)

[Roadrunner]

To me, Thunderbirds are

- long

- personal luxury

- well within reach of the middle class

- RWD

 

The brand is epitomized to me by the "Big Birds" of the late '70s, the 1983 Aerobird and the MN12 'Bird.

 

The latest T-Bird was a complete mistake. They should make it a RWD Dodge Avenger fighter.

[Watchdevil]

To me, Thunderbirds are

- long

- personal luxury

- well within reach of the middle class

- RWD

 

The brand is epitomized to me by the "Big Birds" of the late '70s, the 1983 Aerobird and the MN12 'Bird.

 

The latest T-Bird was a complete mistake. They should make it a RWD Dodge Avenger fighter.

 

The Dodge AVENGER.. No... Charger is what I think you mean to say...

 

Yes the Thunderbird's popularity was reached with the four seat models. 1958 made it practical sporty luxury and an afforable indulgence for sucessful families and individuals. The popular roofline defined and influenced the look of every Ford product in the early 60's, including the Falcon and Mustang.

 

The Thunderbird grew to be more of a personal luxury car exclusive and expensive. The downsized 1977 model had all the styling and magic in a price a couple thousand dollars less and set sales records for the marque.

 

After being mismanaged as a downsized boxy Fairmont variation, Ford made another hit introducing the Euro Ford Aero look to the 1983 Thunderbird and defined styling that influenced and changed the whole industry. When the Taurus came out as a four door with the Aero look, thats when popularity started slumping off.

 

It seems that during that decade, it buyers found well styled four door vehicles acceptable because of accessibility ad the fact that imported luxury makes were redefining the word luxury mostly offered as four door vehicles only.

 

Ford never made a mark as building high image four door luxury cars, just bread and butter Tauruses. By then the demand for coupes had died.

 

Ford missed the boat not reformulating the Thunderbird into a four door model like high image cars such as the Impala SS and later the Chrylser 300/Dodge Charger. It could have been done as a four door companion to the Mustang and be positioned as a halo top of the line Ford. It could have been done as a regular sedan like the 427 Concept or been innovative as a quad coupe much like the Lincoln MKR.

 

With the conflict of Mustang offerings as a coupe and convertible and the limited demand for a specialty roadster, the Thunderbird should have lived on with uninterupted prouction in a formula that would sell instead of no longer existing therefore making it seem like the Thunderbird was a failed nameplate when in fact it was mismanaged. The magic about the Thunderbird is that it always was able to adapt to changing consumer tastes and be resonably successful doing so.

[Meelaan]

Ford missed the boat not reformulating the Thunderbird into a four door model like high image cars such as the Impala SS and later the Chrylser 300/Dodge Charger.

 

I just threw up in my mouth.

 

HERESY.

[joihan777]

Ford never made a mark as building high image four door luxury cars, just bread and butter Tauruses. By then the demand for coupes had died.

 

Ford missed the boat not reformulating the Thunderbird into a four door model like high image cars such as the Impala SS and later the Chrylser 300/Dodge Charger. It could have been done as a four door companion to the Mustang and be positioned as a halo top of the line Ford. It could have been done as a regular sedan like the 427 Concept or been innovative as a quad coupe much like the Lincoln MKR.

 

With the conflict of Mustang offerings as a coupe and convertible and the limited demand for a specialty roadster, the Thunderbird should have lived on with uninterupted prouction in a formula that would sell instead of no longer existing therefore making it seem like the Thunderbird was a failed nameplate when in fact it was mismanaged. The magic about the Thunderbird is that it always was able to adapt to changing consumer tastes and be resonably successful doing so.

 

As for Ford having high image four door luxury cars, isn't that Lincoln's job? Lincoln always seems to be the cream of the Ford crop.

 

I understand about having a nice 4-door Mustang, but why use the Thunderbird name for it? What about the concept names?

 

The 2002-2005 Thunderbird were nice but were lacking in some aspects. Still, their owners are fanatic about them!

They would have been vastly more popular except Ford a) made them waaay too expensive B) not as luxurious as they could have been c) didn't give em' enough power & performance d) not many safety features and e) did I mention way too expensive!?!?

 

It don't think it failed saleswise because it was a two seater, in fact I think this is what drew its customers to it, not simply the Thunderbird name. People want a nice, affordable, two-seat roadster. I think if a new Thunderbird is produced with Mustang drivetrains, better appointments, better safety and most of all an affordable price consumers will flock to it. Especially the baby boomers! Starting just $4-5k over the Mustangs for a base V6 Thunderbird Cruiser would seem right.

 

Do you see baby boomers getting into Mazda Miatas? Not really, were I live the Thunderbirds & Mercedes SLKs are the most popular roadsters. Ford is missing an entire segment that it could quickly fulfill with modified existing powertrains and an absolute gold nameplate!

[Ovaltine]

Ford missed the boat not reformulating the Thunderbird into a four door model like high image cars such as the Impala SS and later the Chrylser 300/Dodge Charger. It could have been done as a four door companion to the Mustang and be positioned as a halo top of the line Ford.

 

It looks like Ford's already "been there - done that" with this little beauty that should have STAYED on the drawing board!

 

 

 

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/autos/col...71?OpenDocument

 

-Ovaltine

[timmm55]

It looks like Ford's already "been there - done that" with this little beauty that should have STAYED on the drawing board!

 

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/autos/col...71?OpenDocument

 

-Ovaltine

 

As much as I find the 67-71 T-Bird suicide 4 doors an interesting footnote in history, I say NOOOOOOO Thunderbird 4 door sedans ever again.

 

Lincoln did a concept off the most recent Thunderbird roadster a year or so with a glass roof retractable roadster. . Since the Mustang is loosely based off the LS/Thunderbird/Jag S chassis, a new Bird off the current Mustang chassis with the previous IRS would be interesting.

[joihan777]

Lincoln did a concept off the most recent Thunderbird roadster a year or so with a glass roof retractable roadster. . Since the Mustang is loosely based off the LS/Thunderbird/Jag S chassis, a new Bird off the current Mustang chassis with the previous IRS would be interesting.

 

Is this what you mean? How cool is this? 100% humina-humina! (Ford, stop twisting the blade!)

 

 

 

 

[Meelaan]

 

Ewwww...

 

Batmobile meets a hearse. Can a car get any more phallic?

[timmm55]

Is this what you mean? How cool is this? 100% humina-humina! (Ford, stop twisting the blade!)

 

No, (I hadn't see that Bird) it was the Mark X prototype to showcase fure design elements. The interior is a dead ringer for the MKZ, and the grill was used on the MKX SUV.

[Watchdevil]

Is this what you mean? How cool is this? 100% humina-humina! (Ford, stop twisting the blade!)

 

 

 

Thats awesome! How did I ever miss that... If you look closely the rectractable roof is the same design on the Mark X show car. I would bet that the roof design or even the entire Tbird concept was stripped and turned into the Lincoln version for the show.

 

I like the grille design better than the ordinary production version...

 

It's still so difficult to determine what kind of Tbird would sell best for as future model... I just don't think the timing is right for another two seat roadster...

Edited August 2, 2007 by Watchdevil

[LincolnFan]

Ford, please make a sport-luxury T-Bird w/4 doors, then chop off some of the WB and make a 4-door coupe Lincoln Continental. The 61 Conti was known for it's small size. Lincoln will have the MKS as it's big sedan, make a four door Continental (NOT MKR esque, but more luxurious look) and a 2 door Mark IX (this one should have the MKR look) with an electronic hardtop like the C70 Volvo.

 

That's the way back to profitability, you hear ME?!

[Watchdevil]

As for Ford having high image four door luxury cars, isn't that Lincoln's job? Lincoln always seems to be the cream of the Ford crop.

 

I understand about having a nice 4-door Mustang, but why use the Thunderbird name for it? What about the concept names?

 

The 2002-2005 Thunderbird were nice but were lacking in some aspects. Still, their owners are fanatic about them!

They would have been vastly more popular except Ford a) made them waaay too expensive B) not as luxurious as they could have been c) didn't give em' enough power & performance d) not many safety features and e) did I mention way too expensive!?!?

 

It don't think it failed saleswise because it was a two seater, in fact I think this is what drew its customers to it, not simply the Thunderbird name. People want a nice, affordable, two-seat roadster. I think if a new Thunderbird is produced with Mustang drivetrains, better appointments, better safety and most of all an affordable price consumers will flock to it. Especially the baby boomers! Starting just $4-5k over the Mustangs for a base V6 Thunderbird Cruiser would seem right.

 

Do you see baby boomers getting into Mazda Miatas? Not really, were I live the Thunderbirds & Mercedes SLKs are the most popular roadsters. Ford is missing an entire segment that it could quickly fulfill with modified existing powertrains and an absolute gold nameplate!

 

 

I should have said Ford as a whole company including Lincoln has struggled with performance/luxury sedans. The Ford brand only had bread and butter rental grade Tauruses ( though they flirted with the SHO) . Lincoln fumbled around with the LS which missed it's mark on styling and price. So when I say "high image", cars that would attract people to the brand enthusiastically with style, feautures and performance. It could be luxury, it could be sporty. I think the Charger and 300 deliver that kind of image at a reasonable price point with a wide range of optionability to make them as nice as you want them, though they need refinements and upgrading right away.

 

Yeah I go back and forth with the 4-door Tbird controversy. The nameplate is sitting on a shelf. There is no performance image sedan in Ford's lineup. I would buy a Tbird four door if that was all they offered. I would buy almost any Tbird they offered.

 

I don't have a problem with the Charger being a four door, nor an Impala. Perhaps people would be more comfortable if the Ford version was a Falcon, Fairlane or Galaxie... Thats a whole other controversy that Ford has teased us with the 427 and Interceptor concepts plus the Lincoln MKR but absolutely no firm commitment nor conviction. All we know is the next RWD platform will be co-engineered with FOA and likely produce gobal sedans in many variations for all markets around the world plus a Mustang and at least a Lincoln.

 

Back to the Thunderbird... Reskinning a Mustang by giving it the sporty/luxury image that is not present on any Mustang with upgraded materials, interiors, options and features plus an power retractable top could be a possibility. However that pushes it back up into the price range the last generation Tbird was at.

 

A smaller than Mustang roadster bigger than Miata may sell. But there is the controversy that it will conflict with Miata and Mustang convertible sales.

 

 

The last generation Thunderbird did exactly what it was supposed to do. It was VERY CLEAR UPFRONT that it was going to be a vehicle produced for only a few years in limited numbers around 20,000 to 25,000. It mostly appealed to the classc Thunderbird roadster enthusiasts and virtually everyone that wanted one got one. After that no expensive halo luxury vehicle is going to continue to sell like crazy. It served it's purpose and left. It repeated the automotive history like the original. The only problem now there was no follow-up like the 1958 was to the 1955-57 models. People loved the Thunderbird image but saw it as an indulgence or impractical toy. As soon as Tbird styling was adapted to a four seat model that was low, leaner and sleeker than it's standard full-sized models, people were attracted to it.

 

The Thunderbirds I am fond of are mostly four seat models. The two seat roadster just has no appeal as anything but a second toy car for a rich person. As much as I like the Pontiac Solstice and Saturn Sky, I decided no because there is no room inside nor in the trunk. The Mustang actually serves as the old Thunderbird four seaters did. Matter of fact the Mustangs were concieved through Iacoccas desire to bring a smaller two seat Tbird back. Back in the day it worked because people bought big luxury cars and smaller affordable ones. They both carried a high image for Ford that influenced design of the more pedestrian bread and butter models... Every Ford in the 1960's got the Tbird's squared off roofline. That was consistant DNA that flowed from the Thunderbird, to the Galaxie, Fairlane, Falcon and then to the Mustang. The Thunderbird even influenced styling of smaller overseas Ford vehicles. To me it was cool you could buy a Falcon Sprint convertible with bucket seats and get some of the feeling of a Thunderbird in it. The Mustang just stepped it up even more and created the legendary sensation that became an american icon.

 

Now we live with Ford vehicles that the only thing they have in common with each other is a stupid chrome bar grille and a lot of shared standard interior parts.

 

Building an image around a ar namplate and emblems is everything. That is why the Mustang still exists today. It means something. And Thunderbird wtill does too...

 

I also wonder if anyone ever did a study on the Cougar name compared to the Sable one. I believed it would have even more recognizability as a Mercury than Sable.

[Watchdevil]

It looks like Ford's already "been there - done that" with this little beauty that should have STAYED on the drawing board!

 

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/autos/col...71?OpenDocument

 

-Ovaltine

 

Thanks so much for sharing that. I love it. I really love that shade of green too. I like the Thunderbirds that most people have the least interest in. They are different and somewhat quirky in a beautiful way and I would own and drive one if I was able to get my hands on one. It totally cool with me!

 

I have matchbox sized models of the 67-68 Tbird coupes in blue, lime and white. I wish these were made in 1/18 scale along with the 72, 78 and 85 models. All that has been made in 1/18 scale is the 1955, 56, 57, 1960, 1963, and 2002-05 models.

Edited August 2, 2007 by Watchdevil

[Ovaltine]

Here's a YouTube video showing a little "design inspiration" that a cleaned up version of the '72 might have to offer.

 

There's a nice shot of the tail lights at night.... probably my favorite part of the '72.... next to the 429 cid!

 

 

-Ovaltine

Edited August 2, 2007 by Ovaltine

[Watchdevil]

Here's a YouTube video showing a little "design inspiration" that a cleaned up version of the '72 might have to offer.

 

There's a nice shot of the tail lights at night.... probably my favorite part of the '72.... next to the 429 cid!

 

 

-Ovaltine

 

That is freaking awsome! That is better than sex...

 

That clean black body, taillamps lit up all the way accross... The sound of the engine... Beautiful and awesome...

 

Thanks so much for sharing that with me! It made my day!

 

Now where is that picture I made of the Tbird 427 Coupe?

 

 

Modified just for you... I made the taillamps full width and removed the bird emblem from the C pillar....

 

Imagine wall to wall LED taillamps, optionally programmed from the dash to be sequential or not...

Edited August 2, 2007 by Watchdevil

[timmm55]

I like the 427/Thunderbird!