Patriotism doesn't sell cars today

[robertlane]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationw...1,6054539.story

[Mr. KABC]

Like the author said, it's kind of hard to wrap yourself up with the American flag when domestic auto manufacturers are busy outsourcing the work to Canada, Mexico, France, Korea, China, etc...

 

AND... you can Buy American when you buy a Camry, Corolla or Accord! So the domestic auto makers have once again shot themselves in the foot - if they try the "Lee Iacocca Approach" they will be called out on their hypocrisy.

 

As an aside, does anyone remember Lee Iaccoca's commercials claiming that "4 out of 5 Americans preferred the Plymouth Acclaim over the Honda Accord" ? :lol: :lol:

[RichardJensen]

There's a fine line between 'wrapping yourself up in the flag' and tapping into the "American spirit".

 

It will be interesting to see if Ford can do this. Use of national identity to sell is pointless because it doesn't reach consumers. Saying that a product reflects attributes that the purchaser values works (classic example: smoking makes you cool).

 

That there are certain things that people associate with being 'American' is a fact. Tapping into them is tricky. Americans, as a rule, value the 'mavericks', the 'rebels', the people that don't accept the status quo. James Dean made himself a hero by doing that in precisely two movies: Giant and Rebel without a Cause.

 

Americans are also fond of novelty. This is, after all, the country that invented the singing bass, the Ronco pocket fisherman, and the thigh-master.

 

Couple those two characteristics together, and you understand why Americans respect inventers and innovators. The rebel with a new way of doing things.

 

Ford, more than GM or Toyota, is in a position to tap into this. But they have to be very careful how they do it. They can't say "Buy a Fusion, it's American", but they can say, "Buy the Fusion, it's bold, innovative, American".

 

...

[one2gamble]

AND... you can Buy American when you buy a Camry, Corolla or Accord!

 

thats not buying american

[StevenJ]

Ford, more than GM or Toyota, is in a position to tap into this. But they have to be very careful how they do it. They can't say "Buy a Fusion, it's American", but they can say, "Buy the Fusion, it's bold, innovative, American".

 

...

 

Isn't that the new Lincoln tagline? "Bold, innovative and American?"

[retro-man]

Forgive me a flight of fancy here, but....

 

In an ideal world that exists only in my mind, Ford would take the initiative on a very green small car. (I am picturing something like Chrysler's CCV from a few years back)

 

- It would be light weight, and low cost - an ideal starter car.

- It would have a few powertrain options, a small gas or diesel (marketed as bio-diesel) - I'm talking like, 60hp (about the same as my dad's 27 window VW bus back in the day) - for the lowest cost option, and a hybrid, or plug-in hybrid/flex fuel for those who wanted to pay a little extra to go even greener

- The body would be made out of recycled plastics (like milk jugs). The body panels, including the stamped, hoseable floor panels, would be left in a natural color, translucent so you could see the ghost of frame, connectors, cables, airbags, door beams, etc. through it. This would save money and the environment by eliminating painting and reducing maintenance, and the look would give it urban hipster cache - don't underestimate the potential for country folk to recognize a good thing when they see it too.

- It would have mesh seats, saving weight, cost, and being hip all at the same time

- It would have fold-down rear seats, a sliding roof, and a tailgate, so that you could haul a new refrigerator or bales of hay in it if you needed to (the Citroen 2CV was made this way, to be basically the only vehicle a French farmer would need).

- It would have 100% recycled and recylable content, and this fact would be advertised.

- It would be made in a green manufacturing facility - like Rouge - and this fact would be advertised.

- It would have near 100% American Union Labor content - providing good paying jobs for Americans - and this fact would be advertised.

- It would be durable and reliable.

- It would be positioned as the spiritual successor to the Model 'T' in its positive transformative effect on the market and society in general.

 

It would make the Prius look dowdy. It would instantly erase the "American-made = stodgy" stigma in most peoples minds. It would become a progressive status symbol. I can tell you that, confronted with a choice between such a vehicle and a Kia Rio at roughly the same price, a lot of people I know would go for the green, socially responsible, American-made alternative. I could see owning such a car.

Edited January 25, 2006 by niteflight

[RichardJensen]

To address some of those thoughts:

 

1) Ford recycles about 90% of their factory waste (heck, even GM recycles about 85%)

2) The steel in most cars is recycled/recyclable

3) Ford is working on something called the Piquette Project--read about it in this week's Time (dead tree edition)--similar to what you're describing

4) Ford is going to reveal an eco-friendly vehicle with an E85 powered hybrid system at the Washington Auto Show in Feb. Scuttlebutt has it the E85 hybrid could be in production quite easily (seeing as Ford PCMs already manage E85 in other applications).

5) Ford is working on organic materials for use in cars http://media.ford.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=22088

 

...

Edited January 25, 2006 by RichardJensen

[retro-man]

To address some of those thoughts:

 

1) Ford recycles about 90% of their factory waste (heck, even GM recycles about 85%)

2) The steel in most cars is recycled/recyclable

3) Ford is working on something called the Piquette Project--read about it in this week's Time (dead tree edition)--similar to what you're describing

4) Ford is going to reveal an eco-friendly vehicle with an E85 powered hybrid system at the Washington Auto Show in Feb. Scuttlebutt has it the E85 hybrid could be in production quite easily (seeing as Ford PCMs already manage E85 in other applications).

5) Ford is working on organic materials for use in cars http://media.ford.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=22088

 

...

I knew about some of the recycling and green production. The Piquette project is interesting. Here's a link from Detroit news: Piquette Project. I think associating it with the Model T like that is a good move. There's only one paragraph in this article that scares me: "We thought it was important to get out of the demands of the regular product development cycle," Pepper explained, though he added that senior product development executives like Derrick Kuzak have been kept apprised of the team's work in order to make sure it is grounded in reality." (italics mine) Yes...... "reality" ...... that's been working out well so far...... No offense Derrick.....

 

The point I was driving at was to make it conspicuously green (in the way that the Prius is, compared to the Civic or the Escape) and - to the point of this thread - conspicuously American. Make it so boldly different that it becomes a badge of social and environmental responsibility. (Mind you, no car made in China is going to do that for as long as environmental and labor conditions remain as they are there.) Make it so that everyone from greenies, to anti-globalists, to urban Bohemians, to pro-labor populists, to older progressives, to practical-minded rurals, to young couples and families on a budget will want to accessorize their lives with it. Make it as inexpensive as the Model T was - well, maybe not quite as inexpensive - the early 20's Model 'T' would be about $3,350 in today's dollars. Have to account for airbags and so-forth. If you could bring it in at, like, $6,980.00, you would scoop even the Chinese. And I bet you could do that with reasonably well paid union labor if you kept it extremely simple. No power windows, no power door locks, no paint, no upholstery (mesh seats), no carpet, AC and sound system optional, power steering optional. It starts to become really attractive - many people long for that extreme simplicity. Nothing to break - a car like that could run for decades. Here is a link to an article on the CCV - the car that really put this idea in my head. 10 years ago. CCV. I still think it's a good idea. It just takes a company with the boldness to do it.

[NickF1011]

To address some of those thoughts:

 

1) Ford recycles about 90% of their factory waste (heck, even GM recycles about 85%)

2) The steel in most cars is recycled/recyclable

3) Ford is working on something called the Piquette Project--read about it in this week's Time (dead tree edition)--similar to what you're describing

4) Ford is going to reveal an eco-friendly vehicle with an E85 powered hybrid system at the Washington Auto Show in Feb. Scuttlebutt has it the E85 hybrid could be in production quite easily (seeing as Ford PCMs already manage E85 in other applications).

5) Ford is working on organic materials for use in cars http://media.ford.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=22088

 

...

 

That's all nice and all, but it does nothing to change public perception if the public doesn't KNOW about it. Ford needs to be touting these things in ads.

[chase1421]

That's all nice and all, but it does nothing to change public perception if the public doesn't KNOW about it. Ford needs to be touting these things in ads.

Hi There

Could not help join this conversation. I've been a Ford dealer in Europe for more than 13 years. I've lived in the US before becomming a Ford Dealer. I'm sorry to tell you that THE AMERICAN WAY is lost - hopefully not forever. Buying AMERICAN has got nothing to do with price - quality or where the product has been produced - it's cash flow. All asian brands will move the money out of America to improve their way of life. Its simply a question of Americans buying their own products no matter of quality or price to protect American jobs. As I mentioned before I'm European - I do not own anything that has not been produced in either Europe or the US. Every product I buy - I search where the product has been produced and who owns the company. Supporting a worker in a western country that gets payed because I bought a product he worked hard for - gives my country a better chance - because the worker will buy products thats produced in my country. Just look at Kia or Hyundai - Kia is a Ford product and Hyundai is a GM product. Back in time the large US car producers saw the markeds in Asia as possibilities for expansion - but the nations had restrictions for import of products from the western world(of course to protect their workers) So what do we do Ford and GM thought? We'll create brands overthere - not possible - because local legislature said that businesses had to be government owned - communism you know - Doesen't matter Ford and GM thought - we'll pay for the factories - let the governments own it - and we'll make the money and get market share. What happened - not enough in Asia could afford a car - what does the factory do to make money - EXPORT. And Ford and GM can't do anything about it - THEY DO NOT OWN THE FACTORIES. Labor is cheap - quality and safety does not have to be high - because the buyers in Asia does not care - so production is cheap.

MAYBE ASIA LOST THE WAR - BUT THEY'RE WINNING ALL THE BATTLES - AND STEALING ALL HARD WORKED AMERICAN DOLLERS RIGHT UNDER YOUR NOSE.

 

 

That's all nice and all, but it does nothing to change public perception if the public doesn't KNOW about it. Ford needs to be touting these things in ads.

Hi There

Could not help join this conversation. I've been a Ford dealer in Europe for more than 13 years. I've lived in the US before becomming a Ford Dealer. I'm sorry to tell you that THE AMERICAN WAY is lost - hopefully not forever. Buying AMERICAN has got nothing to do with price - quality or where the product has been produced - it's cash flow. All asian brands will move the money out of America to improve their way of life. Its simply a question of Americans buying their own products no matter of quality or price to protect American jobs. As I mentioned before I'm European - I do not own anything that has not been produced in either Europe or the US. Every product I buy - I search where the product has been produced and who owns the company. Supporting a worker in a western country that gets payed because I bought a product he worked hard for - gives my country a better chance - because the worker will buy products thats produced in my country. Just look at Kia or Hyundai - Kia is a Ford product and Hyundai is a GM product. Back in time the large US car producers saw the markeds in Asia as possibilities for expansion - but the nations had restrictions for import of products from the western world(of course to protect their workers) So what do we do Ford and GM thought? We'll create brands overthere - not possible - because local legislature said that businesses had to be government owned - communism you know - Doesen't matter Ford and GM thought - we'll pay for the factories - let the governments own it - and we'll make the money and get market share. What happened - not enough in Asia could afford a car - what does the factory do to make money - EXPORT. And Ford and GM can't do anything about it - THEY DO NOT OWN THE FACTORIES. Labor is cheap - quality and safety does not have to be high - because the buyers in Asia does not care - so production is cheap.

MAYBE ASIA LOST THE WAR - BUT THEY'RE WINNING ALL THE BATTLES - AND STEALING ALL HARD WORKED AMERICAN DOLLERS RIGHT UNDER YOUR NOSE. Have you recently visited a Hallmarks or Disney. Hallmarks have lots of nice products - especially Christmas ornaments - like ALL AMERICAN figures like Starwars, Donald Duck, Batman, Superman, Daffy Duck - turn them over - look at the nice box - ALL SAYS MADE IN CHINA OR KOREA. Visit Disney - turn over Mickey Mouse - Goofy - MADE IN CHINA.

 

I'm not a pessimist - but I think - and that's where it all starts - tell it to all you know - SUPPORT LABOUR IN THE WESTERN WORLD - OR WE WILL PERRISH.

[ricers-shaft-blueoval]

As I mentioned before I'm European - I do not own anything that has not been produced in either Europe or the US.

 

now lets clarify this:

 

you are european and will only buy european or united states of american goods; ie are willing to consider "foreign" providd these goods are produced by certain caucasians but not those manufactured by the "other races"

 

why is that? is it because the other races-negroid, mongoloid and various others that make up the non caucasian populations of the world have no right to earn a living?

 

or do you suggest that caucasians have an inherent god given right to a better standard of living than other "non white" races of human beings? presumably yuou consider such races as inferior to the caucasians?

 

would you care to explain further.

[NickF1011]

now lets clarify this:

 

you are european and will only buy european or united states of american goods; ie are willing to consider "foreign" providd these goods are produced by certain caucasians but not those manufactured by the "other races"

 

why is that? is it because the other races-negroid, mongoloid and various others that make up the non caucasian populations of the world have no right to earn a living?

 

or do you suggest that caucasians have an inherent god given right to a better standard of living than other "non white" races of human beings? presumably yuou consider such races as inferior to the caucasians?

 

would you care to explain further.

 

I think his main point was that he's only going to buy goods from countries that support human rights, democracy, etc. That would explain excluding China...but.....not Japan??

 

At least that's what I hope he meant. :unsure:

[ricers-shaft-blueoval]

I think his main point was that he's only going to buy goods from countries that support human rights, democracy, etc. That would explain excluding China...but.....not Japan??

 

At least that's what I hope he meant. :unsure:

 

aha I see! you are trying to explain on his behalf! does that mean that he will not drive a car at all because the fuel that is used to propel todays automobiles almost invariably comes from the middle east? or will he not buy clothes, underwear, DVD players, computers, TVs because these are made in china? or drink coffee (because this is grown in non democratic countries?)

 

perhaps you could care to expalin on his behalf what he meant!

[NickF1011]

aha I see! you are trying to explain on his behalf! does that mean that he will not drive a car at all because the fuel that is used to propel todays automobiles almost invariably comes from the middle east? or will he not buy clothes, underwear, DVD players, computers, TVs because these are made in china? or drink coffee (because this is grown in non democratic countries?)

 

perhaps you could care to expalin on his behalf what he meant!

 

Actually, I was about to take a dig at him for basically the same reasons you just pointed out before I saw your first response. I just don't think it had anything to do with race is all.

 

You're right though...it's impossible to avoid ALL import products from 3rd world/developing nations unless you live in a cave. He has a computer obviously. That alone tells me he's bought products from China before. :lol:

[sailorjohn]

now lets clarify this:

 

you are european and will only buy european or united states of american goods; ie are willing to consider "foreign" providd these goods are produced by certain caucasians but not those manufactured by the "other races"

 

why is that? is it because the other races-negroid, mongoloid and various others that make up the non caucasian populations of the world have no right to earn a living?

 

or do you suggest that caucasians have an inherent god given right to a better standard of living than other "non white" races of human beings? presumably yuou consider such races as inferior to the caucasians?

 

would you care to explain further.

 

:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

What he said, at least what I read, was that he was willing to trade with nations where we have at least a chance of reciprocity. When we buy Korean, or Taiwanese,, Chinese or whatever pacific rim country we're sending our money to, that's basically all we're doing. Sending our $$ to a pacific rim country. They aren't buying our goods and services. This applies to ALL third world countries, BTW. If there isn't at least a semblance of parity in trade, why trade with them? I think the author mentioned the Asian countries because of China. Seems just about everything these days is made in China. For what it's worth, I try to avoid products made in third world countries, for the above reason. Unfettered trade with third world nations doesn't just raise their living standards and line the pockets of the corporations, it lowers OUR living standards.

[96towncarcartier]

I agree with this statement. He's basically looking out for nations whose products also support his own. Buying from a nation that has equal trade means that both nations benefit.

 

Japan, however, FLOODS us with their junk, and then refuses American goods into their country. That creates an unfair trade balance and HURTS THE U.S.

 

I don't give a damn WHAT critics, or other people say about Jap cars. I will never own one. Not Korean either. First off, I have a passion for Ford that I was raised with... it's the way of my family for generations.

 

If it's not owned by Ford, it's no good in my book. Over 30 years of Ford/Mercury/Lincoln ownership has NEVER let me down. Foreign is better? Impossible.

 

He's looking out for his country and his countrymen by supporting countries that also support his own. I wish more Americans would do this.

 

MADE IN THE USA. IT MATTERS.

 

:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

What he said, at least what I read, was that he was willing to trade with nations where we have at least a chance of reciprocity. When we buy Korean, or Taiwanese,, Chinese or whatever pacific rim country we're sending our money to, that's basically all we're doing. Sending our $$ to a pacific rim country. They aren't buying our goods and services. This applies to ALL third world countries, BTW. If there isn't at least a semblance of parity in trade, why trade with them? I think the author mentioned the Asian countries because of China. Seems just about everything these days is made in China. For what it's worth, I try to avoid products made in third world countries, for the above reason. Unfettered trade with third world nations doesn't just raise their living standards and line the pockets of the corporations, it lowers OUR living standards.

[retro-man]

2004 statistics:

 

Population:

U.S.: 295,734,134

China: 1,306,313,812

Japan: 127,400,000

 

U.S. Imports from China: $196,682,000,000.00 or $665.06/ U.S. citizen

China Imports from U.S.: $34,744,100,000.00 or $26.60/ Chinese citizen

 

U.S. Imports from Japan: $129,805,200,000.00 or $438.93/ U.S. citizen

Japan Imports from U.S.: $54,243,100,000.00 or $425.77/ Japanese citizen

 

Just thought you should know.

[RichardJensen]

Interesting "per citizen" quote.

 

What is the average income, per capita for China. Be interesting to see how much that impacts them...

 

China is a strange place. Very very foreign.

 

...

[retro-man]

Here’s the same information with per capita income added:

 

Population:

U.S.: 295,734,134

China: 1,306,313,812

Japan: 127,400,000

 

Per Capita Income:

U.S.: $41,800.00 (est. 2005)

China: $6,200 (est. 2005)

Japan: $30,400 (est. 2005_

 

U.S. Imports from China: $196,682,000,000.00 or $665.06/ U.S. citizen

U.S. Imports from China as percentage of U.S. per capita income: 1.59%

China Imports from U.S.: $34,744,100,000.00 or $26.60/ Chinese citizen

China Imports from U.S. as percentage of China per capita income: 0.43%

U.S. Imports from Japan: $129,805,200,000.00 or $438.93/ U.S. citizen

U.S. Imports from Japan as percentage of U.S. per capita income: 1.05%

Japan Imports from U.S.: $54,243,100,000.00 or $425.77/ Japanese citizen

Japan Imports from U.S. as percentage of Japan per capita income: 1.40%

 

(My point being, quit ragging on Japan. They may have been the problem once (20 years ago), but they're not anymore. In fact, they're suffering as much as we are.)

Edited January 26, 2006 by niteflight

[foxrun]

Here’s the same information with per capita income added:

 

Population:

U.S.: 295,734,134

China: 1,306,313,812

Japan: 127,400,000

 

Per Capita Income:

U.S.: $41,800.00 (est. 2005)

China: $6,200 (est. 2005)

Japan: $30,400 (est. 2005_

 

U.S. Imports from China: $196,682,000,000.00 or $665.06/ U.S. citizen

U.S. Imports from China as percentage of U.S. per capita income: 1.59%

China Imports from U.S.: $34,744,100,000.00 or $26.60/ Chinese citizen

China Imports from U.S. as percentage of China per capita income: 0.43%

U.S. Imports from Japan: $129,805,200,000.00 or $438.93/ U.S. citizen

U.S. Imports from Japan as percentage of U.S. per capita income: 1.05%

Japan Imports from U.S.: $54,243,100,000.00 or $425.77/ Japanese citizen

Japan Imports from U.S. as percentage of Japan per capita income: 1.40%

 

(My point being, quit ragging on Japan. They may have been the problem once (20 years ago), but they're not anymore. In fact, they're suffering as much as we are.)

 

 

So what is it that Japanese import that is American made?

I'm not doubting you just would like same examples and please try not including anything from the entertainment industry.

[RichP]

So what is it that Japanese import that is American made?

I'm not doubting you just would like same examples and please try not including anything from the entertainment industry.

 

"Japan normally produces a slight surplus of rice but imports large quantities of wheat, sorghum, and soybeans, primarily from the United States. Japan is the largest market for U.S. agricultural exports."

 

"Deposits of gold, magnesium, and silver meet current industrial demands, but Japan is dependent on foreign sources for many of the minerals essential to modern industry. Iron ore, coke, copper, and bauxite must be imported, as must many forest products."

 

"Japan is a major market for many U.S. manufactured goods, including chemicals, pharmaceuticals, photo supplies, commercial aircraft, nonferrous metals, plastics, and medical and scientific supplies. Japan also is the largest foreign market for U.S. agricultural products, with total agricultural exports valued at $9.5 billion, excluding forestry products."

 

"U.S. foreign direct investment in Japan reached $78 billion in 2004, up from $73 billion in 2003. New U.S. investment was especially significant in financial services, Internet services, and software, generating new export opportunities for U.S. firms and employment for U.S. workers."

 

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/4142.htm

Edited January 26, 2006 by RichP

[retro-man]

I'm currently working on 3 projects in Japan, all of which incorporate U.S. or Canadian-produced building components: cabinets (Dewils), light fixtures (Seattle Lighting), finish goods (Sauder, Chemcrest), tile (Thompson), plumbing fixtures (Kohler), windows (Loewen), doors (Simpson), door hardware (Esco), roofing (Owens Corning), siding (Stuccoflex), 2x4s, stairs and railings (L.J. Smith and Co.), fireplaces (Heat-n-Glo).... Plus, as mentioned, my own services and those of other consultants. About the only thing that's domestically produced on these are heating plant, certain plumbing fixtures (Japanese bath for instance) and cooking appliances, which reflect different customs and methods of use.

 

When I used to work for a major coffee retailer, who shall remain nameless, when they entered the Japan market, we were sending all the equipment (most of which - even though Italian-named - was actually produced here in Seattle), light fixtures (hand-blown glass, also produced here in Seattle), dishwashers, refrigeration, furniture, casework, tiles, carpet (all procured here through established purchasing arrangements). Not to mention the billions of pounds of roast coffee, music CDs, accessories, food products, etc. that they export to what must be by now about 500 outlets.

 

As an Architect on Department Stores and Shopping Centers, I saw furniture (Knoll and others) and carpets (Bentley Mills), tiles (Walker Zanger, Ann Sacks, others), wall papers, store fixtures, light fixtures (Resolute), clocks, accessories, ...... I could go on.... many items that were exported from the U.S. for these projects.

 

So, in my particular business, I see plenty of exports flowing that way, and enjoy the best relations with many fine clients and builders, who have a fascination with American lifestyle, and who are busting their ass every day to grapple with new and unfamiliar materials and methods and make this stuff work. Some of them are good friends. And yes, it frosts my ass to see the whole country unfairly tarred with the brush of protectionism and xenophobia (talk about the pot calling the kettle black). Now, having said that, do they have certain policies and practices - arcane distribution channels, established webs of business relationships of their own (just like our coffee retailier's established purchasing arrangements mentioned above), a preference for methods and materials that they are familiar with? Sure. That's often the easiest and most profitable way for them to get things done. People assume that business practices are like universal laws of physics - that they apply everywhere - and that countries can just be "homogenized" instantly. The Japanese have a mercantile culture that extends back more than a thousand years. Many of the practices and ways of doing business - these inbred webs of distributorships - have evolved organically from what was being done in medieval times - in much the way many of our professional associations, unions, etc. have their roots in the trade guilds of medieval Europe, and our commercial law has its roots in 16th Cent. British maritime law and earlier. Can they overthrow all that instantly just to suit us? Why should they be expected to? Have they ever had policies in place that protect and cultivate domestic industries? Sure. (As would we, if we had any sense.) But it is changing. As I have said time and time again, they used to make all their own stuff there. Now I go and pick up something in the store, and it will like as not be made in China. And that's not because the Japanese are trying to raise China up by sending their money there (they have a trade deficit with China).

Edited January 26, 2006 by niteflight

[yamahaR1]

I love these UAW types who claim we are hurting America by buying a Japanese car. Hello, if it is built in the US, I am helping American workers, who spend their American dollars here in the US. I live in Michigan, so I grew up brainwashed like everyone else here. Now that I have been all around the US, and world for that matter, I can see the bigger picture. The Big 3 need to make big changes. Go to any major city, not in Michigan and you will see what has happened to their market share. I can almost see the changes when you head over the border to Ohio. In NYC/New Jersey, just about the only american cars there are taxi cabs. Chicago is not much different. LA, same thing. Truthfully, I would rather buy a Japenese or Korean car built in the US than a Big 3 car built in Mexico. I have been to Mexico many times, and they have lots of quality differences than us obviously. And finally, I am not into heavy slow loud motorcycles, so I have a Japanese bike, because they have tremendous quality engineered into them, and there are no good sports bikes here in the US. Buel sucks! Later

[06StangAwesomecar]

I love these UAW types who claim we are hurting America by buying a Japanese car. Hello, if it is built in the US, I am helping American workers, who spend their American dollars here in the US. I live in Michigan, so I grew up brainwashed like everyone else here. Now that I have been all around the US, and world for that matter, I can see the bigger picture. The Big 3 need to make big changes. Go to any major city, not in Michigan and you will see what has happened to their market share. I can almost see the changes when you head over the border to Ohio. In NYC/New Jersey, just about the only american cars there are taxi cabs. Chicago is not much different. LA, same thing. Truthfully, I would rather buy a Japenese or Korean car built in the US than a Big 3 car built in Mexico. I have been to Mexico many times, and they have lots of quality differences than us obviously. And finally, I am not into heavy slow loud motorcycles, so I have a Japanese bike, because they have tremendous quality engineered into them, and there are no good sports bikes here in the US. Buel sucks! Later

 

 

I was going to respond but your whole post doesnt dignify a response.

[yamahaR1]

Isn't that a response in itself? :mellow:

You're right, they won't give a real response because the truth hurts. There are still a lot of them with blinders on who think it is still the '70s and '80s and we can squash anything foreign. This is part of the problem with me, some of them just still have the attitude, "imports suck". Guess what, that is not working anymore. Don't look now, Toyota is passing you by. Next will by Honda. I wonder which foreign company could take 3rd to take all top 3 positions that the "big" 3 once held. Still say they should merge into one company to try to compete with Japan! Funny, what a joke our auto manufacturers have become.