Toyota is the only American made Car in NASCAR?

[BlackHorse]

Well guys, all I can tell you is that everyone is entitled to their opinion and opinions are like assholes, everybody's got one. But the truth of it is, none of us here has either the athletic skill nor physical prowess to be a professional race car driver. This notion that some of you think it's all about just getting sweaty and turning left is pretty much proof of that. I'd invite you to try it sometime but I don't think any race teams out there are going to let you get behind the wheel of their car.

 

 

Oh by the way OAC Sparky, if you're going to quote me as saying something, please make it something I actually said. I never posted any "Blah Blah Blah" comment. I don't know where that came from. Thanks.

Edited March 19, 2007 by BlackHorse

[OAC_Sparky]

Oh by the way OAC Sparky, if you're going to quote me as saying something, please make it something I actually said. I never posted any "Blah Blah Blah" comment. I don't know where that came from. Thanks.

Sorry, I tried to edit out the boring stuff, and that's what we were left with. :blah:

 

:hyper:

[BlackHorse]

Yeah I see, we're just going to degrade this into yet another personal insult fest because debating the topic is too difficult I guess. Sorry buddy, I'm not going there with you, I think we've strayed far enough into the forum flame war land. I'd rather get back on topic.

 

So like I was saying, I'd love to see NASCAR as more of a true stock car racing series. The cars on the track should be cars that came off a production line. Take a true production car make it as race ready as you can make a production car. This is how it used to be done as we all know. Sure they can replace the glass with the NASCAR lexan stuff (I think they use lexan, not sure). They can gut the interior, beef up the suspension, incorporate a fuel cell for rapid fueling during pit stops, beef up the breaks and of course build a safety cage into the cabin. But the engine should be a production engine. The teams should be fully allowed to figure out how to get as much hp as they can from the engine but it should be production engine with production like fuel delivery, by that I mean fuel injection. Not that you can't make the fuel injection a better system, but it should be fuel injection. Carbs just make no sense to me, they are 30 year old technology and not that they don't work great but honestly, no cars use them anymore. So basically what you would see on the track is true FWD V6 powered cars, unless the Ford teams decided to start running the crown vic. Then of course the question comes up of "Do we allow RWD sedans to race against FWD sedans or do we have separate class for each?" We all know that in a couple years GM is going to release their new RWD sedans. For my money, this kind of racing goes a lot farther towards actually developing better, more reliable and more durable cars for the various manufactures than does running a purpose built racing machine that has nothing in common with the production cars they pretend to represent. Sure we won't see 180 and 200 mph races out of these cars, at least I don't think we would, but I think it would be a lot more interesting even still. Any other ideas with respect to this?

[OAC_Sparky]

So like I was saying, I'd love to see NASCAR as more of a true stock car racing series. The cars on the track should be cars that came off a production line. Take a true production car make it as race ready as you can make a production car. This is how it used to be done as we all know.

And on that we agree.

 

The problem I have with NASCAR is the fact that it's no longer about the cars; they are so far removed from anything that you can walk into a showroom and buy, that it's laughable. It's a big joke. And people buy it hook line and sinker (well, they buy Jerry Springer too, but I digress)

 

It's all about the personalities now. I see no difference between Hulk Hogan or Waltripp or whatever the pro wrestler/driver you put out there.

 

Until they change it back to some semblance of a valid representation of "stock cars", it won't matter if the driver has the athleticism to be able stand on his head while twirling a barbell in each hand and a roman candle shooting out his ass, it won't convince many normal people there's much "sport" to it.

[OAC_Sparky]

By the way, according to the stickers on our Edges, there is over 95% of our vehicle's content from US and Canada. Does that entitle us to slap an Edge sticker on the back of the generic NASCAR chasis and claim it to be the true American stock car?

 

See, it wouldn't surprise me to see it happen.

[Mark B. Morrow]

By the way, according to the stickers on our Edges, there is over 95% of our vehicle's content from US and Canada. Does that entitle us to slap an Edge sticker on the back of the generic NASCAR chasis and claim it to be the true American stock car?

 

See, it wouldn't surprise me to see it happen.

 

 

If you slammed an Edge/MKX down to the ground it might make a cool looking NASCAR entry.

[mettech]

Yeah I see, we're just going to degrade this into yet another personal insult fest because debating the topic is too difficult I guess. Sorry buddy, I'm not going there with you, I think we've strayed far enough into the forum flame war land. I'd rather get back on topic.

 

So like I was saying, I'd love to see NASCAR as more of a true stock car racing series. The cars on the track should be cars that came off a production line. Take a true production car make it as race ready as you can make a production car. This is how it used to be done as we all know. Sure they can replace the glass with the NASCAR lexan stuff (I think they use lexan, not sure). They can gut the interior, beef up the suspension, incorporate a fuel cell for rapid fueling during pit stops, beef up the breaks and of course build a safety cage into the cabin. But the engine should be a production engine. The teams should be fully allowed to figure out how to get as much hp as they can from the engine but it should be production engine with production like fuel delivery, by that I mean fuel injection. Not that you can't make the fuel injection a better system, but it should be fuel injection. Carbs just make no sense to me, they are 30 year old technology and not that they don't work great but honestly, no cars use them anymore. So basically what you would see on the track is true FWD V6 powered cars, unless the Ford teams decided to start running the crown vic. Then of course the question comes up of "Do we allow RWD sedans to race against FWD sedans or do we have separate class for each?" We all know that in a couple years GM is going to release their new RWD sedans. For my money, this kind of racing goes a lot farther towards actually developing better, more reliable and more durable cars for the various manufactures than does running a purpose built racing machine that has nothing in common with the production cars they pretend to represent. Sure we won't see 180 and 200 mph races out of these cars, at least I don't think we would, but I think it would be a lot more interesting even still. Any other ideas with respect to this?

 

Concur.

[Rwall10279]

Yeah I see, we're just going to degrade this into yet another personal insult fest because debating the topic is too difficult I guess. Sorry buddy, I'm not going there with you, I think we've strayed far enough into the forum flame war land. I'd rather get back on topic.

 

So like I was saying, I'd love to see NASCAR as more of a true stock car racing series. The cars on the track should be cars that came off a production line. Take a true production car make it as race ready as you can make a production car. This is how it used to be done as we all know. Sure they can replace the glass with the NASCAR lexan stuff (I think they use lexan, not sure). They can gut the interior, beef up the suspension, incorporate a fuel cell for rapid fueling during pit stops, beef up the breaks and of course build a safety cage into the cabin. But the engine should be a production engine. The teams should be fully allowed to figure out how to get as much hp as they can from the engine but it should be production engine with production like fuel delivery, by that I mean fuel injection. Not that you can't make the fuel injection a better system, but it should be fuel injection. Carbs just make no sense to me, they are 30 year old technology and not that they don't work great but honestly, no cars use them anymore. So basically what you would see on the track is true FWD V6 powered cars, unless the Ford teams decided to start running the crown vic. Then of course the question comes up of "Do we allow RWD sedans to race against FWD sedans or do we have separate class for each?" We all know that in a couple years GM is going to release their new RWD sedans. For my money, this kind of racing goes a lot farther towards actually developing better, more reliable and more durable cars for the various manufactures than does running a purpose built racing machine that has nothing in common with the production cars they pretend to represent. Sure we won't see 180 and 200 mph races out of these cars, at least I don't think we would, but I think it would be a lot more interesting even still. Any other ideas with respect to this?

 

I woldn't mind seeing it happen, but it opens up a big can of worms. I think it would bring back the day where one manufacturer bitches and whines that the other has an unfair advantage. Not to mention fans bitching and whining that one car always runs away with the race. Then there is always the debris that would undoubtedly fly into the stands when a modified car off a dealer lot crashes.

Nascar did start Grand AM cup (I think they changed the name now) where they run modified street cars for those who wanted to see that kind of racing. I for one like watching the Mustangs race with BMW's, Mazdas, and the little Chevy Colbolts.....

Thats the biggest problem with auto racing, everyone wants it done differently. But thats also why there is many different racing series.

[falconman13]

The problem I have with NASCAR is the fact that it's no longer about the cars; they are so far removed from anything that you can walk into a showroom and buy, that it's laughable. It's a big joke. And people buy it hook line and sinker (well, they buy Jerry Springer too, but I digress)

 

As opposed to that Top Fuel Funny car sitting on the dealer lot? Or maybe that F1 Honda?

 

If you arent a racing fan, fine, thats your right. But None of the popular racing circuits use actual production cars.

IMO The last of the true production car racing was the Trans Am circuit back in the late 60's early 70's.

 

But I still enjoy racing today.

[OAC_Sparky]

As opposed to that Top Fuel Funny car sitting on the dealer lot? Or maybe that F1 Honda?

 

If you arent a racing fan, fine, thats your right. But None of the popular racing circuits use actual production cars.

Ahhhh.....but I am a racing fan. Drag racing, F1 and rally racing don't use "stock car" in the name.

[OAC_Sparky]

....And I don't consider any of those sports either.

[falconman13]

No, but at least in drag racing and Rally, they still pretend to be the stock car they are not. Would you be happier if NASCAR simply changed its name? Is that your real problem with it? If they changed the name, then it would be a Sport? Because you so clearly think that driving a race car is not a sport as its not so physically tasking as lets say, Golf for instance. or maybe Baseball, now there's a real physical activity.

[OAC_Sparky]

No, but at least in drag racing and Rally, they still pretend to be the stock car they are not. Would you be happier if NASCAR simply changed its name? Is that your real problem with it? If they changed the name, then it would be a Sport? Because you so clearly think that driving a race car is not a sport as its not so physically tasking as lets say, Golf for instance. or maybe Baseball, now there's a real physical activity.

Do you consider fishing a sport? Or hunting? Bowling? Darts?

Because some take skill and some require athleticism. All the people that partake in those activities believe it's a sport...

 

Changing the name would be a start.

 

How about RacingEveryDayNotEveryCarCrashes >> REDNECC.

Or LeftOrStraightEveryRace >> LOSER

Or my personal favorite

 

NHBR >> Nice Hats, Boring Racing.

 

Meh, to each their own.

[BlackHorse]

As I understand it, there is a racing series in Australia that is very popular and pretty much what I have described here. By that I mean, they take production Holdens and other such Aussie cars and modify them to meet the standards of the racing series, but essentially, they are "stock" racing sedans. It is wildly popular down there. I believe they have a lot of road courses though where as NASCAR has only one, I think, maybe two. Not that I'm trying to turn us into the Australians but heck I think it's a good series and I'd love to see it happen here. Maybe we don't change NASCAR at all, maybe they just need to start an entirely new racing series that fits the parameters we have laid out here. Just call it SCAR series? That has sort of a macho appeal in its name ay? lol If there's any forum members here that hail from down under perhaps they could shed some light on this. Also, with respect to the rally racing thing, aren't those cars production bodies with modified suspensions and engines and safety cage added for rally racing?

Edited March 20, 2007 by BlackHorse

[OAC_Sparky]

As I understand it, there is a racing series in Australia that is very popular and pretty much what I have described here. By that I mean, they take production Holdens and other such Aussie cars and modify them to meet the standards of the racing series, but essentially, they are "stock" racing sedans. It is wildly popular down there. I believe they have a lot of road courses though where as NASCAR has only one, I think, maybe two. Not that I'm trying to turn us into the Australians but heck I think it's a good series and I'd love to see it happen here. Maybe we don't change NASCAR at all, maybe they just need to start an entirely new racing series that fits the parameters we have laid out here. Just call it SCAR series? That has sort of a macho appeal in its name ay? lol If there's any forum members here that hail from down under perhaps they could shed some light on this. Also, with respect to the rally racing thing, aren't those cars production bodies with modified suspensions and engines and safety cage added for rally racing?

See, now that I'd watch.

[Ford Jellymoulds]

Edmunds story on Toyota in NASCAR.

 

:reading:

 

In nine of the past 10 years, the Toyota Camry has been America's best-selling car. Some 400,000 Camrys each year come from Toyota Motor Manufacturing.

 

Yes, and the idiots that let Toyota in to produce Jap Crap rubbish in the USA will reget it when Toyota kill off Ford and GM, and then pack up, move out the Camry production lines back to Nippon. How short sighted some folk are.

[Deanh]

As opposed to that Top Fuel Funny car sitting on the dealer lot? Or maybe that F1 Honda?

 

If you arent a racing fan, fine, thats your right. But None of the popular racing circuits use actual production cars.

IMO The last of the true production car racing was the Trans Am circuit back in the late 60's early 70's.

 

But I still enjoy racing today.

Actually a LOT of ferraris Formula one car was seen in the Enzo...and it had rebates as well LOL!

[mettech]

Edmunds story on Toyota in NASCAR.

 

:reading:

 

In nine of the past 10 years, the Toyota Camry has been America's best-selling car. Some 400,000 Camrys each year come from Toyota Motor Manufacturing.

 

Yes, and the idiots that let Toyota in to produce Jap Crap rubbish in the USA will reget it when Toyota kill off Ford and GM, and then pack up, move out the Camry production lines back to Nippon. How short sighted some folk are.

 

How close do you have to get to a mirror to see yourself?

 

Jap Crap....

[Bored of Pisteon]

See, now that I'd watch.

 

How's this one that I'd propose... AN ALL OUT DEMOLITION DERBY PITTING GM AND FORD VEHICLES VS. TOYOTA AND HONDA'S. I'LL MAKE SURE MY 1976 LINCOLN TOWN CAR WILL BE MODIFIED TO CRUSH ALL TOYOTA'S AND HONDA'S ON IMPACT!

 

WOULDN'T THAT SOUND FUN? (IN THEORY)

[old_fairmont_wagon]

Well, NASCAR is still a good name, just change the meaning of the "S" from stock to spec, nad you've got yourself the truth.

 

I don't even know why Nascar deludes itself with these sticker jobs anymore. With the COT, the things can't even match up to the rough proportions of any production vehicle ever, the driver isn't in the same spot in the chasis, and the aero is comparable to a brick. Just give it up. Keep the manufacturers as "engine" sponsors and go forward from there. With the COT, it has truly become a spec series. It was before, but this just cements it.

 

Its time for enthusiasts that like stock car racing to move on to a completely different racing association. I don't know what it is, but, I kinda dig the ALMS and the other road racing series that are out there. Looking at the racing updates on AE, there are several series out there that race vehicles that a re much more stock than the NASCAR spec vehicles, and all of them regularly turn both left and right in the same race!

[Ford Jellymoulds]

I have to come down on the side of Toyota on this one. Toyota has a valid point in that their production Camry, that is represented on the race track by their racing Camry, is a car that uses more "American" content then any of the other represented cars on the track in this very American sport.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As far as Toyota contributing to the American economy, the net result is a negative. Do their profits on all of those cars remain here? Where are the parts manufactured? Do the laid off U.S. auto workers work for Toyota now? WAKE UP AND BUY AMERICAN. Same or better quality and less expensive. The fact is that Toyota and others do final assembly of automobiles and trucks here, but the parts are made in Japan and the chassis come partially assembled from Japan, and the profits go back to Japan.

General Motors supports over 1,000,000 working and retired autoworkers, all of the Japanese firms in the US take care of a total of 37,000. GM, the same is true for Ford and Chrysler, support worker through retirement with benefits, etc. These benefits add $1200 to the cost of each American made vehicle, the Toyota, Honda etc have none of these costs.

 

I would never ever, ever buy Jap Crap in any shape or form Sony, Honda Toysota etc, once they have killed off Ford & GM market share they move out and ship out of the USA at a moments notice and take fake US jobs with them, EXPORTING them back to Nippon. Dont complain about the size of tax & welfare bill when it happens.

[NickF1011]

I would never ever, ever buy Jap Crap in any shape or form Sony, Honda Toysota etc, once they have killed off Ford & GM market share they move out and ship out of the USA at a moments notice and take fake US jobs with them, EXPORTING them back to Nippon. Dont complain about the size of tax & welfare bill when it happens.

 

Never buy Jap Crap? How exactly did you log-on to this forum? Half the guts in your PC are probably Japanese. And I assume you don't own a television less than 20 years old also?

[Ford Jellymoulds]

Never buy Jap Crap? How exactly did you log-on to this forum? Half the guts in your PC are probably Japanese. And I assume you don't own a television less than 20 years old also?

 

I made it onto this forum on a Dell computer at work, l own a Dutch made Philips TV assembled in SouthWales UK made from parts shipped in from China.

 

You are right Nick, most of the cars Americans will buy in the future will be made in Nippon just like the TV sets you mentioned are "MADE IN NIPPON". Once the Jap Crap Toysotas of this world have killed off Ford and GM car industry in the States, they will move the Camry Production lines back to Nippon, by then they would conquered and killed off the American Car Manufacturing Industry just like they have done with Sony TV's.

[NickF1011]

I made it onto this forum on a Dell computer at work, l own a Dutch made Philips TV assembled in SouthWales UK made from parts shipped in from China.

 

You are right Nick, most of the cars Americans will buy in the future will be made in Nippon just like the TV sets you mentioned are "MADE IN NIPPON". Once the Jap Crap Toysotas of this world have killed off Ford and GM car industry in the States, they will move the Camry Production lines back to Nippon, by then they would conquered and killed off the American Car Manufacturing Industry just like they have done with Sony TV's.

 

What's the difference between sending your money to the UK and sending it to Japan? Either way your money isn't going to Americans. And Dells use a LOT of imported parts. I just don't follow your "logic".

[OAC_Sparky]

What's the difference between sending your money to the UK and sending it to Japan? Either way your money isn't going to Americans. And Dells use a LOT of imported parts. I just don't follow your "logic".

He lives in the UK, meaning, he is supporting his local/country's economy.