ebritt Posted December 1, 2005 Share Posted December 1, 2005 <_< I'll have to say that the Fusion will probably beig a small hit for the first year then dry up and blow away....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebritt Posted December 1, 2005 Share Posted December 1, 2005 Why does the big 3 have a quality problem???? Let me tell you a story...GM goes to a supplier and says Make the parts cheaper or we'll go somewhere else! This company made QUALITY parts and had virtually no PPM rejects. They get rid of the Trained, skilled workers and bring in temps off the street. (quality goes down) GM comes back and says CHEAPER CHEAPER>>>DAMMIT CHEAPPER!! The company sends the lines to mexico.....Quality is in the toilette. But it's cheaper. GM fills the cars with cheap Mexican crap. GM recalls cars full of Mexican crap. GM gets bad reputation. GM yells at Mexicans CHEAPER AND MORE OF 'EM damn you! Lines go to China. True story. I was There...I saw it all...no lie! And the sad part is that Ford does the same thing. We dealt with them and Visteon too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxrun Posted December 1, 2005 Share Posted December 1, 2005 A nieghbor just got a Fusion, says he really likes it and that it reminds him of his old camry but quieter and more sporty loooking. Sounds great right, problem? its his corporate car. He works for Kodak and they just switch from GM. So he had a choice taurus or fusion. Either way he didn't make a consumer choice and that is where the meat is. The three sold 8863, how many were strict retail? Its time Ford came out the woods and just spoke in real terms. HOW MANY DID THEY SELL? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenp77 Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 Geez. I coulda swore this F150 was the most popular model ever. And that Ford's share of the fullsize truck market has been rock steady despite the introduction of the Titan and Tundra. Trust me, the Tundra has terrrrrrible brakes. They will no doubt be better on the next model, but the next model will no doubt also have the steep sides that the F150 does. Monkey see, monkey do is the Toyota approach to trucks (not the Japanese approach, mind you--I'm not trying to feed cultural stereotypes here--but the Toyota approach). Scuttlebutt has it that the '08 refresh of the F150 will include weight saving measures. As far as the lack of power, blame that on the too-tall first gear ratio. If you've got the 5.4L there's plenty of power on tap, it's just not geared to be felt in your backside. The standard F150 and Titan have similar final drive ratios (3.55 on the F150, 3.357 on the Titan); however, 1st gear on the F150 is 2.84:1 and 3.82:1 on the Titan. That's a big enough difference to make the F150 feel pretty weak off the line. The Titan also has a 5 speed automatic while the F150 still makes do with a 4 speed auto. Likely the forthcoming 6-speed on the F150 will address some of the perceived lack of power. Anyhoo, the Fusion is, in my mind, more competitive vis a vis the Camry than the Tundra is with the F150. How much of the gap Toyota closes with the next Tundra remains to be seen. However, I have my doubts about the desire of Toyota as a corporation; I have doubts about their will to succeed in this arena. Ford wants, no needs, to succeed in the midsize arena in order to survive. Toyota does not need the fullsize truck sales the way Ford needs the midsize sedan sales. I 'spect the next Tundra will be a creditable alternative to today's F150 in a few respects, but those advantages will be largely neutralized by improvements coming on the '08 F150. Just my opinion. ...Rich:I agree with most of what you say I don't think anyone will push ford on their trucks anytime soon and I still beleive they are the best built trucks I just wish they would re-do the ranger as this f-150 is just to big for me. I also beleive the camry and accord are very good cars and don't think anyone will de-throne them anytime soon!! Also just my opinon and you know what they say about opinions?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 "this f-150 is just to big for me" How do you like the size of the Explorer? I think the Explorer (with a simpler and cheaper frame past the firewall) gives a good indication of where the Ranger's headed. Wider, a little longer and with a little more living space inside. Probably not with a V8, though. Heck. The Ranger's payload and tow rating are, I think, better than all but Dodge, with stiffer sturdier Explorer frame and a new transmission, I think the Ranger could continue to be a class leader among 4s and 6s. ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Kerluck Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 (edited) That's a sad case of dealer arrogance that I have been lucky to aviod. Our dealers in Windsor are quite good, and very thorough. I was getting a weird rattle from the front wheels in our 2001 Windstar. They kept the van for 3 days, supplied a rental car at no cost, and in the end, it was just a couple of loose torx screws on the front disks. It makes me mad to hear that dealers are shitting on their customers because they are the face of Ford, and if you lose a customer there, then it doesn't matter what we factory workers do to improve quality. As for the Camry it looks a lot like the Sonata in the rear, and too "Jelly Beany" in the front. As for the Fusion, Ford is not planning on letting it stagnate. With a 3.5L motor next year, great reviews, AWD, and many other features coming online through it's model life, I doubt that it will fall out of favor any time soon. Edited December 2, 2005 by Jason Kerluck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 A nieghbor just got a Fusion, says he really likes it and that it reminds him of his old camry but quieter and more sporty loooking. Sounds great right, problem? its his corporate car. He works for Kodak and they just switch from GM. So he had a choice taurus or fusion. Either way he didn't make a consumer choice and that is where the meat is. The three sold 8863, how many were strict retail? Its time Ford came out the woods and just spoke in real terms. HOW MANY DID THEY SELL? Well, this is an example of where fleet sales CAN be a good thing. He's impressed with the Fusion, even if it's a company car. Maybe now when it's time to trade in his PERSONAL vehicle, he may stop to think about considering a Ford product instead of running straight to the Toyota dealer. As for the sales breakdowns between fleet and retail, NOBODY else does it, why should Ford? I think the Camry would lose some of its luster if people knew how many of them went to fleet customers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenp77 Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 "this f-150 is just to big for me" How do you like the size of the Explorer? I think the Explorer (with a simpler and cheaper frame past the firewall) gives a good indication of where the Ranger's headed. Wider, a little longer and with a little more living space inside. Probably not with a V8, though. Heck. The Ranger's payload and tow rating are, I think, better than all but Dodge, with stiffer sturdier Explorer frame and a new transmission, I think the Ranger could continue to be a class leader among 4s and 6s. ... Rich: That would be perfect for me hope they build it in the next 2 yrs or so I see on other posts some pics from china or somewhere whats up with that hope it isn't going to be built there???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxrun Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 Well, this is an example of where fleet sales CAN be a good thing. He's impressed with the Fusion, even if it's a company car. Maybe now when it's time to trade in his PERSONAL vehicle, he may stop to think about considering a Ford product instead of running straight to the Toyota dealer. As for the sales breakdowns between fleet and retail, NOBODY else does it, why should Ford? I think the Camry would lose some of its luster if people knew how many of them went to fleet customers. Yes of course the corporate and fleet sales are great promos, and for it I agree they are necessary. The thing is Ford is in the fight of its life and a big part of that life is the investment world. Just today CNN was knocking Bill Ford for asking for government help in hybrid advancements, tax incentives, etc. The way CNN tells it Bill went to Washington begging for corporate welfare. The only way to silence this ignorant media onslaught is to sell cars, alot of them, to customers. Anything other then real sales gives these sceptics ammunition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bored of Pisteon Posted December 4, 2005 Share Posted December 4, 2005 I wouldn't worry too much about what is driving around your area just check the final sales tally a year from now and see how bad fusion got it's a-- kicked by toyota and honda???? You may be on your way to eating a big pile of shit pal! Yesterday alone while driving around the western end of the Metro Detroit area. I counted 7 Fusions, 4 Milans, and 1 Zephyr. That's was just in a 4 hour span on a busy shopping Saturday around here. Seems to me the momentum is starting to gain steam! Especially when these vehicles have 4 cylinder engines in them... GAS MILEAGE SPECIAL! I would love for a Honda or Toyota car to go up against any of my older 1970's and 1980's Ford, Mercury and Lincoln vehicles in a demolition derby or long term reliability test! When was the last Honda or Toyota seen at a car show from this era? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenp77 Posted December 4, 2005 Share Posted December 4, 2005 You may be on your way to eating a big pile of shit pal! Yesterday alone while driving around the western end of the Metro Detroit area. I counted 7 Fusions, 4 Milans, and 1 Zephyr. That's was just in a 4 hour span on a busy shopping Saturday around here. Seems to me the momentum is starting to gain steam! Especially when these vehicles have 4 cylinder engines in them... GAS MILEAGE SPECIAL! I would love for a Honda or Toyota car to go up against any of my older 1970's and 1980's Ford, Mercury and Lincoln vehicles in a demolition derby or long term reliability test! When was the last Honda or Toyota seen at a car show from this era? If you get newspapers in detroit check the final sales figures in a year and see who wins??? And in case you havent noticed we aren't int he 70's or 80's now and main stream america doesn't give a big f--k about detstructions derbys and on long term reliability honda and toyota has been kicking our asses for sometime now check out consumers reports sometime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bored of Pisteon Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 If you get newspapers in detroit check the final sales figures in a year and see who wins??? And in case you havent noticed we aren't int he 70's or 80's now and main stream america doesn't give a big f--k about detstructions derbys and on long term reliability honda and toyota has been kicking our asses for sometime now check out consumers reports sometime. If you read my signature below. You will know why I don't read liberal rags like "Consumer Reports!" I make up my own decisions! Obviously long-term reliability wasn't much an argument for you or any other Honda or Toyota driver since any of those cars that are 15 years old or older are pure rusted out shells of thin sheet metal. They are just throw-away disposable cars with garbage components anyway! Especially in the engine compartment... I've changed batteries on some of them and I know from experience! I don't need mass media to tell me what car to drive, let alone someone like yourself; who belongs to the mainstream of America either! They ain't as smart as you may think and I believe that is part of the problem and not the solution. I'll never buy a foreign car... NEVER! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenp77 Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 If you read my signature below. You will know why I don't read liberal rags like "Consumer Reports!" I make up my own decisions! Obviously long-term reliability wasn't much an argument for you or any other Honda or Toyota driver since any of those cars that are 15 years old or older are pure rusted out shells of thin sheet metal. They are just throw-away disposable cars with garbage components anyway! Especially in the engine compartment... I've changed batteries on some of them and I know from experience! I don't need mass media to tell me what car to drive, let alone someone like yourself; who belongs to the mainstream of America either! They ain't as smart as you may think and I believe that is part of the problem and not the solution. I'll never buy a foreign car... NEVER! I also have no sacred cows and make my own decisions and I am not going to buy a POS just because it was made in detroit they are going to have to change their ways or it is going to get ugly and I think you would have to agree detroit has built some real crap over the years which has got them where they are today!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimist in Atlanta Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 THAT IS AN AVALON !!! :lol: :lol: I can't imagine anyone that would pay a Camry price for something that looks like an ES330 or an Avalon. I know I wouldn't settle for paying less...... :lol: Come on folks....they are whipping the hell out of us and we just sit idly by and try to compete with the likes of the 500....The 500 is a great car....if you're an old fart, like me. The young folks wouldn't touch it but, they will sure as hell buy the ES--when they get the money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Kerluck Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 The Fusion is a better competitor to the Camry. In the last issues of Motor Trend, and Car & Driver, the Fusion has beat out the current Camry in both tests. In fact, the Fusion is getting rave reviews all over the place. The point is that we are competing, and beating them, if only a little at a time. Will the next Camry beat the Fusion? Will Ford keep the Fusion modern enough over its run to hold its lead? Who knows, but to dismiss Ford outright when there is so much good in the system is unfair. It's certain that Toyota isn't too fond of Ford getting back in front, and they'll be pushing hard as well. One can only hope Ford doesn't fall into old Nasser era habits, if or when things to get better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bored of Pisteon Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 I also have no sacred cows and make my own decisions and I am not going to buy a POS just because it was made in detroit they are going to have to change their ways or it is going to get ugly and I think you would have to agree detroit has built some real crap over the years which has got them where they are today!! I'm not arguing against the POS issue and I agree to a point. I'm supporting "our own". No car with a foreign nameplate will ever be parked at my house! Not when the $$$ goes back to that companys' respective country! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenp77 Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 I'm not arguing against the POS issue and I agree to a point. I'm supporting "our own". No car with a foreign nameplate will ever be parked at my house! Not when the $$$ goes back to that companys' respective country! We are on the same page most of the way I have an 04 f-150 and a 93 t-bird 120K that I replaced with an 03 camry for the wife which was my first jap car ever but ford just didn't have anything to measure up and I have to tell you this camry is hard to argue with and out here on the west coast all we hear is that they are made in USA bu the UAW which I find out isn't really true that the UAW isn't really in the transplant factories. I just hope the big 3 can come back befause we are getting outr asses kicked in almost every industry and everything is being outsourced can't hardly find a damn thing made in the USA!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voncoon Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 Link--Edmunds Not much different than the current Lexus ES330. If Toyota thinks they're going to get new customers with this, they're nuts. :o Hell, BMW has been selling this style for years, why can't the Japs do it too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted December 10, 2005 Share Posted December 10, 2005 http://www.autoblog.com/entry/1234000387071843/ Some pics of the new Camry SE, including the interior. Quite stylish! It way outclasses the Fusion/500 interiors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
llog215 Posted December 10, 2005 Share Posted December 10, 2005 http://www.autoblog.com/entry/1234000387071843/ Some pics of the new Camry SE, including the interior. Quite stylish! It way outclasses the Fusion/500 interiors. The head on view looks very similar to the Mazda 6. I personally prefer the interior of the Fusion. It looks much sportier and that aqua color in the dash and center stack definitely has to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted December 10, 2005 Share Posted December 10, 2005 (edited) http://www.autoblog.com/entry/1234000387071843/ Some pics of the new Camry SE, including the interior. Quite stylish! It way outclasses the Fusion/500 interiors. The center stack is very nice, more style than substance, IMO (e.g. tiny radio buttons, very difficult to manipulate/read rotating ring HVAC controls, but very good labelling). It's a nice mesh between the Accord which is stylish past the point of functionality, and the Fusion which is functional without any particular style. The gauge cluster is, well, messy. Interestingly, this model appears to be Bluetooth capable, even though it doesn't have climate control (note the phone controls on the steering wheel). Ford will need to add this to the Fusion shortly (as a sort of v1.5 upgrade in '06 or '07). The exterior is not great. IMO. It's not ugly, but it is not cohesive, and there's nothing about it that says "Toyota" except for the gigantic Toyota badge on the front which serves as yet another indication that Toyota is incapable of charting their own course, design wise. Even this tiny detail was appropriated from Ford. ... Edited December 10, 2005 by RichardJensen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenp77 Posted December 10, 2005 Share Posted December 10, 2005 The center stack is very nice, more style than substance, IMO (e.g. tiny radio buttons, very difficult to manipulate/read rotating ring HVAC controls, but very good labelling). It's a nice mesh between the Accord which is stylish past the point of functionality, and the Fusion which is functional without any particular style. The gauge cluster is, well, messy. Interestingly, this model appears to be Bluetooth capable, even though it doesn't have climate control (note the phone controls on the steering wheel). Ford will need to add this to the Fusion shortly (as a sort of v1.5 upgrade in '06 or '07). The exterior is not great. IMO. It's not ugly, but it is not cohesive, and there's nothing about it that says "Toyota" except for the gigantic Toyota badge on the front which serves as yet another indication that Toyota is incapable of charting their own course, design wise. Even this tiny detail was appropriated from Ford. ... Pretty sweet looking ride hate to say it the fusion isn't even close to this camry (just my opinion and you know what they say about opinions) but am guessing toyo stays on top with this one??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2b2 Posted December 11, 2005 Share Posted December 11, 2005 First impressions - 'return of bathtub styling' and really hated the snot-logo dripping down on the grille. 2nd - bloated shape + sharply angular head&tail lights = JackO'Lantern and the interior is striking me as a bit too boudoir (if that makes any sense) just too... too. It's sorta pretty but a jet-cockpit-look fits my driving style better :D this sorta makes me expect floral upholstery. Need to see it in black. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenJ Posted December 11, 2005 Share Posted December 11, 2005 Personally, to me it looks like they took the 05' Camry and made it less ugly. The basic body shapes seems the same with different head lights and different tail lights. As far as the interior goes, I don't care much for it. I think the 500 and the Fusion don't have much to worry about. The cluster for the radio looks large and confusing. All the buttons for scan/ seek, am/fm, look all the same and easy to mistake. I am also sick of knob a/c controls. Ford has the right idea with a/c controls on the panther car. Simple, select the exact tempature you want along with the fan speed, real simple. Gauge cluster on the dashboard looks okay but no chrome around the dials or any other submliminal details. Just more applicance. Same boring old crap they made before only 10% better. Just not impressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted December 11, 2005 Share Posted December 11, 2005 (edited) The exterior isn't so sharp, but it's not without its virtues. Slippery and smooth is still a welcome design statement. The interior is an amazing advancement for Toyota, they have really outdone themselves with some innovative HVAC controls and instrumentation. If it goes over well, I expect more companies to pick up on some of the design elements. The lighting effects must be pretty sharp. The door trim is also very nice. All in all, they really nailed ergonomics, materials, design and style in one go. Now we'll see how much it costs. It seems Camry prices keep inching up. I would definitely prefer the Camry to the Fusion....or Zephyr for that matter Edited December 11, 2005 by BORG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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